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[EccentricSage]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Tellervo wrote...

She doesn't get our knickers in a twist. She's very realistic, and a great character--and when people talk to me like that IRL I give it back to 'em. The Warden doesn't really have any options to do so, unless you want to babble about griffins.

Yeah, I find it very interesting that some people like Wynne solely because of the griffon conversation. While I like getting to bug her about griffons, her reaction of getting all annoyed that I wanted to make her lecture interesting and I definitely do not appreciate being called a child, particularly if I only use the griffon line once.

This.  My poor sweet Dalish was so taken aback by that.  Neither the story teller nor the keeper back home would have treated him that way for being excited about learning something new.  Griffins, man... they existed!?  And people RODE THEM?!  LIKE HALLA?!  OMFG!  Who could blame him?

My biggest issue with the writing for both Wynne and Lelliana is that there are points in the game where you might think they are being total ****s, and there is no diologue option to dissagree or get angry at them.  You have to resort to picking diologue options that simply inconvenience them or anoy them into getting mad at you.  As much fun as it is to troll fictional characters like that, sometimes it's just waaaaay OOC for my Warden to NOT be blunt about an issue.  I think I'd find the characters less frustrating if the Warden's dialogue options were more adequate.  No problem with the character's writing themselves technicaly, but the writing for some of the responses.  Though there ARE some REALY fun Trolling moments... Like my mage telling Lelliana that she's defying the Creator's will by fighting the Blight, which the Maker created.  XD  Freekn' hillarious.  She was so not a happy camper.  I wish there was more moments like that in Wynne's Dialogue.  Shouting Griffin's repeatedly was great, but damn it, I want to give it as well as I have to take it!  XD  But allas, I have to be satisfied with listening to Zevran give it as good as I take it.  Which is pretty freekn' awesome.


I need to try to get to bed again.  I'm rambling and fully aware that this was probably a fairly incoherant post.  Goodnight, all.

[metalcraze33]

She doesn't know a darn thing about being a warden but she tells you how to be one

I know people like that in real life,giving you advice on something they nothing about

grrr know it all

[bleetman]

Hands up if you politically married at the Landsmeet for no other reason than to spite Wynne.



.o/



What was that, you nattering old biddy? Grey Wardens can hold no titles? We'll see about that.

[ejoslin]

Hmmm, I usually do the political marriage, but that's because my poor Queenie Couslands feel they have to do their duty Whether Wynne is alive or dead.



But yeh, for someone who can't hold titles, the warden can certainly hold a lot of them.



Prince/Princess Consort if HN

Paragon if Dwarf

Bann of the Denerim Alienage if City Elf

Teyrn/a of Gwaren

Arl/essa of Amaranthine if choosing to stay with the Gray Wardens

[Elhanan]

Must be a Approval thing, but I had her advise me on my relationship one moment, and the very next dialogue was of her admitting that she was/might be wrong. That was a sweet moment you Haters might enjoy.

[bleetman]

"Princess Consort Cousland, Warden Commander and Arlessa of Amaranthine, Hero of Ferelden"



We're going to need a bigger tombstone.

[ejoslin]

Elhanan wrote...

Must be a Approval thing, but I had her advise me on my relationship one moment, and the very next dialogue was of her admitting that she was/might be wrong. That was a sweet moment you Haters might enjoy.

I'll explain it to you.

She gives the lecture about relationships when your love interest hits adore.  Her dialog sets a flag.
As soon as your romance partner hits love, as long as that flag is set, you get the apology.

So if you pick her up AFTER your romance partner hits love, you'll get the lecture, then the apology immediately.

The major problem with Zevran (aside from what she actually SAYS) when it comes to this is it's very easy to have him at adore quite early, but he doesn't fall in love until after the landsmeet is called.  So that apology is a LONG time coming.

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 novembre 2010 - 12:49 .

[EccentricSage]

I think her lecture would not leave such a lasting bitter taste in my mouth if the responses I could give felt more adequate. The apology regarding Zevran was almost sweet, aside from her arguing with me about weather or not there was always a warmer side to Zevran. I wish there was some rebuttal to her saying he only showed that side to me. It's not like she bothered to get to know him before telling him what he thinks and feels, and then trying to advise him on that. People like her just make my skin crawl and by ****les raise. There are certain traits I simply can not tolerate in people, and Wynne has some sort of unholy trinity of such traits. Bitter Sweet could be the closest I get to comfort from her apology.

[Elhanan]

ejoslin wrote...

I'll explain it to you.

She gives the lecture about relationships when your love interest hits adore.  Her dialog sets a flag.
As soon as your romance partner hits love, as long as that flag is set, you get the apology.

So if you pick her up AFTER your romance partner hits love, you'll get the lecture, then the apology immediately.

The major problem with Zevran (aside from what she actually SAYS) when it comes to this is it's very easy to have him at adore quite early, but he doesn't fall in love until after the landsmeet is called.  So that apology is a LONG time coming.

Thanks for the insight. I will not be exploring the Zev relationship, though. Care not for the disco loving Elf (or at least he reminds me of such).

[ejoslin]

Elhanan wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

I'll explain it to you.

She gives the lecture about relationships when your love interest hits adore.  Her dialog sets a flag.
As soon as your romance partner hits love, as long as that flag is set, you get the apology.

So if you pick her up AFTER your romance partner hits love, you'll get the lecture, then the apology immediately.

The major problem with Zevran (aside from what she actually SAYS) when it comes to this is it's very easy to have him at adore quite early, but he doesn't fall in love until after the landsmeet is called.  So that apology is a LONG time coming.

Thanks for the insight. I will not be exploring the Zev relationship, though. Care not for the disco loving Elf (or at least he reminds me of such).

That's fine  Obviously, you should play the game the way you enjoy.  I was just explaining WHY you got that apology immediately and why that doesn't happen with one of the other romance partners

[Bruddajakka]

You lot are doing it wrong.



Prince-Consort, Teyrn of Gweran, Acting Arl of Amaranthine, and heir to the Teynir of Highever. Also it's interesting but if you do tell Wynne your a Cousland, and what happened with Howe she does call you My Lord regardless of the whole Warden's have no title BS.

[ejoslin]

Bruddajakka wrote...

You lot are doing it wrong.

Prince-Consort, Teyrn of Gweran, Acting Arl of Amaranthine, and heir to the Teynir of Highever. Also it's interesting but if you do tell Wynne your a Cousland, and what happened with Howe she does call you My Lord regardless of the whole Warden's have no title BS.

Are you kidding? That's how my HNF ends, except of course she's princess-consort.  And she tells Alistair she's going to be trying to make the royal heir with someone else.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 novembre 2010 - 02:38 .

[Sarah1281]

Bruddajakka wrote...

You lot are doing it wrong.

Prince-Consort, Teyrn of Gweran, Acting Arl of Amaranthine, and heir to the Teynir of Highever. Also it's interesting but if you do tell Wynne your a Cousland, and what happened with Howe she does call you My Lord regardless of the whole Warden's have no title BS.

If you choose "don't call me that" when she does then she 'realizes' that Wardens can't hold titles, though. I was like "...Yes, I can. I just don't feel the need to have you addressing me like that when we're on the road." She never calls you that again regardless, though.

[Bruddajakka]

Yeah sadder thing is it's about the only time she actually comes off as respectful.

[Avilia]

Its interesting that Wynne, who's apparently wise, is wrong about the LI's in her 'relationship' chat. Leliana on the other hand, is right. Her chats about Zev or Alistair to a female are both sweet and quite incisive (and hilarious in the case of Alistair).



Slightly OT but I found that interesting.

[maxernst]

EccentricSage wrote...

I think her lecture would not leave such a lasting bitter taste in my mouth if the responses I could give felt more adequate. The apology regarding Zevran was almost sweet, aside from her arguing with me about weather or not there was always a warmer side to Zevran. I wish there was some rebuttal to her saying he only showed that side to me.

That's the main issue with a lot of conversations with Wynne, actually.  You can't disagree with her politely.  Although my canon PC ultimately saw her point about love being selfish when the Dark Ritual came around.

[Trenrade]

I find Wynne to be a rather boring and bland character as it is, but her healing and augmentation spells come in handy so I almost always have her in my party.

If I want to make an badass antihero type character I specialize Morrigan in healing, as ironic as that seems.

Modifié par Trenrade, 11 novembre 2010 - 09:13 .

[Giggles_Manically]

She was right about relationships getting in the way do duty.

At least for Dain Aeducan.



King (Bhelen) (Queen for Anora)maker, Paragon, hero, etc etc etc....

When Origins ended, he said:

Screw you guys anyway! I am so out of here.



Packed up the next day, left for Orlais with Leliana, Zevran and Dog in tow.

[Sarah1281]

Would he have stuck around and done more duty (although you could argue his duty was over at that point once the Blight was ended) if he had never met Leliana?

[Giggles_Manically]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Would he have stuck around and done more duty (although you could argue his duty was over at that point once the Blight was ended) if he had never met Leliana?

Probably not.
He mucked up his life enough as it was, and sticking around was not what he wanted to do.

Too many memories for him.

Besides Zevran is still his friend, and he probably knows all the cool things to see in Orlais right now.
Dain really, really, really hates being called hero or Paragon. It makes his skin crawl.

Not my other DN Thorin, although he never romanced anyone, and poisioned Harrowmont off for being an idiot.

[Wulfram]

It's fairly easy for Wynne's advice against a relationship to be vindicated by the end of the game.



If you bully Alistair into doing the DR in order to keep him alive, then that's love interfering with your duty. While if you don't and bring him to the roof, then love costs Alistair his life.

And of course there's the epilogue for Leliana if her lover does the US.

[ejoslin]

Wulfram wrote...

It's fairly easy for Wynne's advice against a relationship to be vindicated by the end of the game.

If you bully Alistair into doing the DR in order to keep him alive, then that's love interfering with your duty. While if you don't and bring him to the roof, then love costs Alistair his life.
And of course there's the epilogue for Leliana if her lover does the US.

Is she vindicated, though?  How are you not doing your duty at the end (which is to end the blight)?  It's not like you run off with your LI before the battle.  And if you don't do the dark ritual, usually the warden is the one who decides who lives and who dies -- and this is not so much related to duty.  The only exception to this is Alistair in love/still in love, but really, he is choosing between two duties (if king), and deciding a miserable life as king without his love is the less important duty, especially since he has a capable heir.

I see no one shirking their duties at the end of the game, in love or not.  In fact, I see extraordinary people doing the absolute best they can.

[EccentricSage]

maxernst wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

I think her lecture would not leave such a lasting bitter taste in my mouth if the responses I could give felt more adequate. The apology regarding Zevran was almost sweet, aside from her arguing with me about weather or not there was always a warmer side to Zevran. I wish there was some rebuttal to her saying he only showed that side to me.

That's the main issue with a lot of conversations with Wynne, actually.  You can't disagree with her politely.  Although my canon PC ultimately saw her point about love being selfish when the Dark Ritual came around.

Exactly.  When there IS a dissagreable option with Wynne or Lelliana, it tends to be borish and ideotic, not anger or disguest presented in a rational way.  Very different from Zevran, for example, where there's a nice balance between negative and positive responces.  Alistair's is usually preaty realistic, too., as well as Morrigan's.  I can't remember the name of the Writer who did both Lelliana and Wynne, but while her characters are well writen, there are some week points in her warden response options, that can make certain conversation infuriating.  I might not hate Lel so much if there were a way out of choosing for her weather she should follow the Chantry or go back to her Bard ways.  WTF is my Dalish supposed to do?!  Or a Mage who is anti-chantry but not stupid evil ether?  A couple of outs such as 'I can't tell you who you are, do you even know who you are?' would have been nice.  With Wynne, you ether have to kiss ass sometimes or be anoying.  Sometimes I want to puff out my chest and put her in her place, though inteligently... not just all SUT UP OLD WOMAN like.  Though that becomes awfully apealing from a meta gameing perspective, it's not in-character for a good leader who needs to remind her who the Warden is around here.

[Wulfram]

ejoslin wrote...

Is she vindicated, though?  How are you not doing your duty at the end (which is to end the blight)?  It's not like you run off with your LI before the battle.  And if you don't do the dark ritual, usually the warden is the one who decides who lives and who dies -- and this is not so much related to duty.  The only exception to this is Alistair in love/still in love, but really, he is choosing between two duties (if king), and deciding a miserable life as king without his love is the less important duty, especially since he has a capable heir.

I see no one shirking their duties at the end of the game, in love or not.  In fact, I see extraordinary people doing the absolute best they can.

Whether doing the DR is consistent with your duties depends on what your warden believes about Morrigan and the OGB.  If they think Morrigan is a scary witch and giving her control of a tevinter old god is a bad idea, but still go through with it, then I'd say they're failing in their duty.

Wynne's point - at least when talking about a relationship with Leliana or Alistair, I'm not sure if it comes through with the others - is not just that love might get in the way of your duties, but also that your duties might result in you hurting the one you love.  The most straightforward example being the US leading to Leliana's suicide.

Modifié par Wulfram, 12 novembre 2010 - 01:27 .

[ejoslin]

Well, falling in love USUALLY ends up with someone hurt, whether through breakup or someone dying before the other. Wynne admits she was wrong on this point, that you should cherish whatever happiness you can get.

So no, on that point she's not vindicated either.

Edit: Yes, the US destroys Leliana (unhardened scenario you mention, but hte hardened one as well) AND Zevran and Gray Warden Alistair.  King Alistair and Morrigan both have reasons to keep going.

The warden, even if all goes well, will die in 30 years, so most likely sooner than the LI.  Does that mean they should never fall in love?

Modifié par ejoslin, 12 novembre 2010 - 01:45 .