576 réponses à ce sujet

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Bingo, ejoslin. Love always hurts. Wynne would have you avoid being human and experiencing life because of her percieved ideas of duty. But, given her history, after which she still loves the Circle unswervingly, can anyone expect anyone else?



Just because there is the possibility someone might get hurt does not vindicate Wynne's "relationships are baaad" preach-a-thon. Someone will get hurt whether in a relationship or not, if the feelings are present anyway.



Like I tell her when she nagged my mage about her relationship with Alistair "Go knit some fuzzy blankets and leave us alone". Bitter old cow.

[Sarah1281]

I might not hate Lel so much if there were a way out of choosing for her weather she should follow the Chantry or go back to her Bard ways.

She still follows the Chantry and is very strong in her faith hardened, the only difference I see is that she seems less desperate about it and more willing to admit to who she is (NOT automatically becoming a bard again) if she's hardened.

[ejoslin]

This whole thing brings this Zevran/Shale banter to mind.

Zevran: So tell me, Shale... if you had the opportunity to become flesh, would you take it?
Shale: It does seem rather preoccupied with this topic.
Zevran: Humor me. Would you choose to live? To breathe the air and taste of flash? Or would you remain the immortal stone that you are?
Shale: Would I also get to age and bleed and become sick and die?
Zevran: Of course. These are the things we accept for the blessing of being what we are.
Shale: Then no thank you. I have no need of such frailties.
Zevran: You were once a dwarven woman. With dreams and passions and all the rest. Does that hold no sway for you?
Shale: Why would I wish to be that woman again? She gave up her body, willingly.
Zevran: And what of family? Of children? Life does not begin and end with yourself.
Shale: I... have no desire to produce offspring.
Zevran: Your form is wondrous, that's true. But while you do not suffer the lows of life, you also do not experience the highs. It is something to consider.
Shale: It is nothing to consider. What it speaks of is impossible.

Edit: Of course this really has nothing to do with except...  well...  to find happiness, you can't be afraid of the pain that will come with it.  I like this banter a lot.

Modifié par ejoslin, 12 novembre 2010 - 03:12 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

ejoslin wrote...

Well, falling in love USUALLY ends up with someone hurt, whether through breakup or someone dying before the other. Wynne admits she was wrong on this point, that you should cherish whatever happiness you can get.

So no, on that point she's not vindicated either.

Edit: Yes, the US destroys Leliana (unhardened scenario you mention, but hte hardened one as well) AND Zevran and Gray Warden Alistair.  King Alistair and Morrigan both have reasons to keep going.

The warden, even if all goes well, will die in 30 years, so most likely sooner than the LI.  Does that mean they should never fall in love?

Depends on which day you ask me.

[Giggles_Manically]

I was afraid that in ME2, Mordin was going to pull a Wynne on me.



Then you get the birds and the bees talk.

That was the funniest moment in ME2 for me:

So dont <ahem> ingest.



Followed by:Will be here studying cellular biology, more simple, less mood music and alcohol required.

[Ryzaki]

Though the whole kiss her ass or argue like a child isn't limited to just Wynne. I've seen it in a few bits with other characters too.

Morrigan's "survivial is the most important" convo for instance.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 novembre 2010 - 04:19 .

[maxernst]

Ryzaki wrote...

Though the whole kiss her ass or argue like a child isn't limited to just Wynne. I've seen it in a few bits with other characters too.

Morrigan's "survivial is the most important" convo for instance.

I see that differently, because I don't see anything rude in saying "there are things worse than death"--the annoyance came from the big approval drop, not the conversation option I chose, though I would have liked more opportunity to explain what I meant.  I wanted to start that conversation up again after we met up with Hespith.

[ejoslin]

What's odd about Morrigan is in at least one banter she DOES say there are fates worse than death. But I think the context is different. In one she is saying do whatever you can to survive. In the other, she's talking about slow, painful death by torture.

[Ryzaki]

Okay I finally rolled a CE and I got a nice touching convo with Wynne where you can bring up Vaughn and Shianni, she was very sympathetic and respectful.



So I guess I'd say I do like her a little bit more now.

[Ryzaki]

maxernst wrote...

I see that differently, because I don't see anything rude in saying "there are things worse than death"--the annoyance came from the big approval drop, not the conversation option I chose, though I would have liked more opportunity to explain what I meant.  I wanted to start that conversation up again after we met up with Hespith.

Nah I didn't see it as being rude (rather the opposite honestly) though...maybe like you its more the huge dissapproval that frustrates me.

And yes pointing at the broodmother and going "Yes. I see that as worse than death Morrigan." would've been win.

What's odd about Morrigan is in at least one banter she DOES say there
are fates worse than death. But I think the context is different. In
one she is saying do whatever you can to survive. In the other, she's
talking about slow, painful death by torture.

But there are things worst than torture as well. (Well depending on the person anyways).

True but sometimes whatever you can do concides with the worst fate than death. Gah. Just a small part of my annoyance of Morrigan.

Just once I'd like to able to ask her is she stupid. Just a random "Are you retarded?" dialogue choice. Just once! 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 novembre 2010 - 06:04 .

[EccentricSage]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I might not hate Lel so much if there were a way out of choosing for her weather she should follow the Chantry or go back to her Bard ways.

She still follows the Chantry and is very strong in her faith hardened, the only difference I see is that she seems less desperate about it and more willing to admit to who she is (NOT automatically becoming a bard again) if she's hardened.

My Dalish did his best to tell her to be herself, though I did not like any of the wordings... they all sounded like I was codling her, when really, my Dalish was pretty sick of her BS, and wanted to call her on it.  Her dialogue afterwards only made it worse, IMO. 

[FullmetalHeart20]

ejoslin wrote...

Her talk when you romance Zevran...  Even the VO notes say she's disgusted by your behavior.  The other three are at least a bit supportive and concerned -- but omg, no, not with Zevran.  As if it's ANY of her damned business.  It's not homophobic as it's identical for males and females, but ugh, it is BAD.

Edit: I cannot stand her in the fade as well.  When she just starts yelling at my warden... Hahahaha.  She's an awesome character, but SO sanctimonious.

that might just be because the first time you met he tried to kill you. Also, his best stories are about killing people. Wanna guess what his favorite hobby is? That's right! Killing people. I'm actually touched that she seems to be the only one concerned about such an influence.

[ejoslin]

FullmetalHeart20 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Her talk when you romance Zevran...  Even the VO notes say she's disgusted by your behavior.  The other three are at least a bit supportive and concerned -- but omg, no, not with Zevran.  As if it's ANY of her damned business.  It's not homophobic as it's identical for males and females, but ugh, it is BAD.

Edit: I cannot stand her in the fade as well.  When she just starts yelling at my warden... Hahahaha.  She's an awesome character, but SO sanctimonious.

that might just be because the first time you met he tried to kill you. Also, his best stories are about killing people. Wanna guess what his favorite hobby is? That's right! Killing people. I'm actually touched that she seems to be the only one concerned about such an influence.

Holy necrothread!  But I'm still around.

Wynne gives that talk about every love interest. And she changes her mind about, well, every love interest.  It all comes down to she's worried that love will be a distraction, and then, after true love happens, she realizes that finding love is a good thing.  Here's her apology when it comes to Zevran.  I'm too lazy to look up the "concerned" speech for all the LI's on youtube.  

Anyway, it's quite clear that her concern is not because Zevran tried to kill you -- she lectures you regarding the all night partying and what she believes your duties are as a Gray Warden..  Alistair and Morrigan both express that concern, but not Wynne.

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 janvier 2013 - 11:34 .

[Addai]

Since I just replayed recently, I was reminded of one of the reasons I dislike Wynne- that on several dialogues, the Warden's options are all bad. You either have to respond like a docile child or a total ******.

[lyriumaddict104]

^ That's true too. Wynne makes human aging look good. Seems like women in Thedas have it easy. (Had to say that).
I used to like Wynne, now she annoys me but I still recruit her for those who save the Circle and leave her in camp when she bothers me. Her party banters about how old she is really annoy me. She doesn't sound like she's fishing for sympathy, which makes it worse. I don't know why she keeps bringing it up, like that's all anyone else in the party ever thinks about. I don't care about her age and I don't want to have to address it nearly every time I talk to her. She's almost as bad as Fenris and Anders in DA2 who won't ever shut up about their respective grievances either.

Modifié par lyriumaddict104, 29 janvier 2013 - 01:51 .

[KotorEffect3]

I've never had any problems with Wynne. Sure she can be preachy but she means well and besides bringing her along helps me get through the deep roads in one piece.

[perlshell]

I wish that finding Irving's journal in the Circle Tower had opened up new dialogue with Wynne.

[TEWR]

I find Wynne to be, while a good person at heart, a woman that prattles on about things she knows absolutely jack **** about. Warfare, strategy, being a Grey Warden.

I like her as a person, but god damn does she get on my nerves a lot when she tries to tell people "what's right" and "how they should act".

[dainbramage]

Wynne's annoying, but usually ends up in my party anyway... dat spellpower.

[Bfler]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I like her as a person, but god damn does she get on my nerves a lot when she tries to tell people "what's right" and "how they should act".

That's normal behaviour of a mother or grandmother, who wants the best for the childs.

[ejoslin]

Bfler wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I like her as a person, but god damn does she get on my nerves a lot when she tries to tell people "what's right" and "how they should act".

That's normal behaviour of a mother or grandmother, who wants the best for the childs.

Except Wynne is neither to the warden, which makes it just condescending.

[Addai]

dainbramage wrote...

Wynne's annoying, but usually ends up in my party anyway... dat spellpower.

It's really not necessary, though.   I always orient my party towards high DPS so a healer isn't needed.  Dat freedom.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

ejoslin wrote...

Bfler wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I like her as a person, but god damn does she get on my nerves a lot when she tries to tell people "what's right" and "how they should act".

That's normal behaviour of a mother or grandmother, who wants the best for the childs.

Except Wynne is neither to the warden, which makes it just condescending.

This is somewhat less true if the Warden is a mage, in which case she is a senior member of the Warden''s former community, and her moralizing is a little bit of home. (Which the mage Warden may or may not appreciate. For instance, my Amell was a libertine, and my Surana was just evil.)

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 27 janvier 2013 - 09:33 .

[dainbramage]

Addai67 wrote...

dainbramage wrote...

Wynne's annoying, but usually ends up in my party anyway... dat spellpower.

It's really not necessary, though.   I always orient my party towards high DPS so a healer isn't needed.  Dat freedom.

Ah, but I always get Wynne ASAP so she's not specced as a healer, or at least as little as possible. Her offensive spells are also more powerful than anyone else's (including a PC mage) once you've done her sidequest.

EDIT: 216 spellpower at level 25 on one of my saves. And with her +30% spirit damage, and ability to (easily) hex someone to -100 resistances... well, she can hit insanely hard.

Modifié par dainbramage, 28 janvier 2013 - 01:57 .