576 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

Especially as Sten at least waits until you're NOT doing your duty (or so he sees it) before lecturing you about it.

[Bigdoser]

He really does make you feel like you are wasting time at various points, thats what I like about him. 

Modifié par Bigdoser, 26 octobre 2010 - 02:45 .

[Aeowyn]

Additionally, does anyone else feel that Wynne is a tiny bit responsible for what happened at the Circle?

I mean, Uldred wanted to side with Loghain in exchange for some freedom from the Circle and then Wynne comes in and tells Irving ALL about his treachery. How the eff would she know anything ABOUT that? I thought she wasn't fighting at the front lines?

And then, when you ask what her deal with Uldred is: "He never wanted to teach, always looked out for himself bla bla bla."

Oh he sounds like such a monster... not.

And let's not even start on the -18 disapprove you get from her when you tell her to shut up. Ah Wynne, I really, really, really hate you. I honestly wish you could rat HER out at the Tower

"I might be the blood mage who just SAVED this entire Tower, but you're the abomination."

[CalJones]

More than a tiny bit. I love talking to Ines in Awakening - she has a few things to say about Wynne (and especially how her nagging drove Uldred mad).

[Avilia]

CalJones wrote...

More than a tiny bit. I love talking to Ines in Awakening - she has a few things to say about Wynne (and especially how her nagging drove Uldred mad).

Miss "I'm so special the Fade shines out of my bum"...the only thing I miss about running Awakenings nowadays is Ines, she's great.  If only you could talk to her without having to leave Wynne alive, curse it.

[Leonia]

Ah, this reminds me of the old "Abominable Wynne" thread. Good times. She especially annoys me with her response to the Guardian at the gauntlet. What a hypocritical freaking.. *utters a long string of colourful obsceneties* I've only allowed Wynne to survive twice and that was before I knew how to handle playing without a spirit healer (I rarely play a mage PC and Morrigan is usually enthropy-specced).

[Sarah1281]

Caladhiel wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

Caladhiel wrote...

 Let's take Zev, for example: one could argue he's just a ruthless assassin, will return to Antiva with Taliesen and not give a damn about what happens in Ferelden. And you'll go: "So he's an ass - we all knew that from the very beginning. Stupid assassin caring only about himself."

What Zevran have you been traveling with?  

The one that betrays you if you don't have enough approval with him,.?  As with Wynne, Zev is one of the few party members that will actually turn on you in certain situations. To tell the truth I only found out that there's a possibility of Zev betraying you at *all* through a friend of mine, who didn't give a damn about upping approval with party members and suffered the consequences. It's never happened to me, I love Zev!^^

Zevran is not 'one of the few' to turn on you. Everyone but Alistair and Loghain will try to leave if they have a low enough approval and evreyone but those same two and Morrigan will try to attack you at some point. Oh, and Dog, of course.

Shale sides against you with Caridin, Leliana sides against you at the Urn, you've already mentioned Sten, Wynne, and Zevran, Oghren only attacks you if he hates you, Morrigan (though I believe she won't attack you) will leave if she doesn't like you. If anything, people who don't in some way turn against you are in the minority and they appear to be fellow Wardens who are committed to ending the Blight (though Alistair leaves over Loghain) and a dog that's imprinted on you.

[Ryzaki]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Caladhiel wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

Caladhiel wrote...

 Let's take Zev, for example: one could argue he's just a ruthless assassin, will return to Antiva with Taliesen and not give a damn about what happens in Ferelden. And you'll go: "So he's an ass - we all knew that from the very beginning. Stupid assassin caring only about himself."

What Zevran have you been traveling with?  

The one that betrays you if you don't have enough approval with him,.?  As with Wynne, Zev is one of the few party members that will actually turn on you in certain situations. To tell the truth I only found out that there's a possibility of Zev betraying you at *all* through a friend of mine, who didn't give a damn about upping approval with party members and suffered the consequences. It's never happened to me, I love Zev!^^

Zevran is not 'one of the few' to turn on you. Everyone but Alistair and Loghain will try to leave if they have a low enough approval and evreyone but those same two and Morrigan will try to attack you at some point. Oh, and Dog, of course.

Shale sides against you with Caridin, Leliana sides against you at the Urn, you've already mentioned Sten, Wynne, and Zevran, Oghren only attacks you if he hates you, Morrigan (though I believe she won't attack you) will leave if she doesn't like you. If anything, people who don't in some way turn against you are in the minority and they appear to be fellow Wardens who are committed to ending the Blight (though Alistair leaves over Loghain) and a dog that's imprinted on you.

Now...everyone here knows I dislike Morrigan. The bolded is not true. She will not leave you until you tell her to screw off.  

Either that or tell her you're not killing Flemeth. Also Shale and Leliana can be avoided by simply not taking them with you when you perform a mentioned deeds and lying about them. 

...Sten too for that matter. You can't leave Zev behind. He magically shows up and betrays you anyways. He actually goes out of his way to stab you in the back at neutral. Not hostile. Neutral. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 octobre 2010 - 03:33 .

[Addai]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Sten too for that matter. You can't leave Zev behind. He magically shows up and betrays you anyways. He actually goes out of his way to stab you in the back at neutral. Not hostile. Neutral. 

Well the situations are rather different.  I would expect that an assassin contracted to kill me might have chancy loyalty.  Someone who thinks I'm the savior of mankind turning on me and trying to kill me for finding a peaceful solution to the conflict with Kolgrim... eh, it has a certain smell of hypocrisy.

Modifié par Addai67, 26 octobre 2010 - 03:42 .

[ejoslin]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Caladhiel wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

Caladhiel wrote...

 Let's take Zev, for example: one could argue he's just a ruthless assassin, will return to Antiva with Taliesen and not give a damn about what happens in Ferelden. And you'll go: "So he's an ass - we all knew that from the very beginning. Stupid assassin caring only about himself."

What Zevran have you been traveling with?  

The one that betrays you if you don't have enough approval with him,.?  As with Wynne, Zev is one of the few party members that will actually turn on you in certain situations. To tell the truth I only found out that there's a possibility of Zev betraying you at *all* through a friend of mine, who didn't give a damn about upping approval with party members and suffered the consequences. It's never happened to me, I love Zev!^^

Zevran is not 'one of the few' to turn on you. Everyone but Alistair and Loghain will try to leave if they have a low enough approval and evreyone but those same two and Morrigan will try to attack you at some point. Oh, and Dog, of course.

Shale sides against you with Caridin, Leliana sides against you at the Urn, you've already mentioned Sten, Wynne, and Zevran, Oghren only attacks you if he hates you, Morrigan (though I believe she won't attack you) will leave if she doesn't like you. If anything, people who don't in some way turn against you are in the minority and they appear to be fellow Wardens who are committed to ending the Blight (though Alistair leaves over Loghain) and a dog that's imprinted on you.

Now...everyone here knows I dislike Morrigan. The bolded is not true. She will not leave you until you tell her to screw off.  

Either that or tell her you're not killing Flemeth. Also Shale and Leliana can be avoided by simply not taking them with you when you perform a mentioned deeds and lying about them. 

...Sten too for that matter. You can't leave Zev behind. He magically shows up and betrays you anyways. He actually goes out of his way to stab you in the back at neutral. Not hostile. Neutral. 

Zevran can be JUST as easily avoided -- moreso even.  You just talk to him a bit.  Show him the first bit of kindness he ever received in his life and you have the most loyal companion.

Really, it's kind of common sense.  If you decide to keep your assassin close rather than waiting for the new assassin to come after you, it's pretty smart to talk to him and get to know him.

[Ryzaki]

The assassin gave his vow to aid me. If he's not good for his word he's useless to me.

Now I'm not saying I didn't expect it. (was pleasnantly surprised) But he's hardly the most loyal of your companions. That mantle goes to dog. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 octobre 2010 - 03:49 .

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Sten too for that matter. You can't leave Zev behind. He magically shows up and betrays you anyways. He actually goes out of his way to stab you in the back at neutral. Not hostile. Neutral. 

Well the situations are rather different.  I would expect that an assassin contracted to kill me might have chancy loyalty.  Someone who thinks I'm the savior of mankind turning on me and trying to kill me for finding a peaceful solution to the conflict with Kolgrim... eh, it has a certain smell of hypocrisy.

QFT  since I left a wall of text after this!

[Ryzaki]

Addai67 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Sten too for that matter. You can't leave Zev behind. He magically shows up and betrays you anyways. He actually goes out of his way to stab you in the back at neutral. Not hostile. Neutral. 

Well the situations are rather different.  I would expect that an assassin contracted to kill me might have chancy loyalty.  Someone who thinks I'm the savior of mankind turning on me and trying to kill me for finding a peaceful solution to the conflict with Kolgrim... eh, it has a certain smell of hypocrisy.

I never said I didn't. But frankly my Warden saw everyone with her as having their own angle. As long as it didn't counteract with hers she could careless. When it did however.  

Edit: And I've never been able to spare Zevran without metagaming on my PCs. For all of them it's OOC. I'm not saying its not IC for others PCs but not mine. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 octobre 2010 - 03:51 .

[Addai]

Ryzaki wrote...

The assassin gave his vow to aid me. If he's not good for his word he's useless to me.

And he did aid you for most of the game, with no effort on your part to get to know him or show him that loyalty goes both ways.  If he flips on you, it's no one's fault but your own as far as I'm concerned.  A leader looks out for his troops.  If you're a poor leader, you deserve to lose them.

The sad thing about Zevran is that he knows when he attacks you that he's going to lose.  He is just carrying through his original plan to commit suicide by Warden.

Wynne, OTOH, apparently attacks me because I don't share her religious beliefs.  This, after telling me that I'm the only thing that stands between humanity and the darkness.  Personally, I think the lyrium and the possession by a spirit has made her batty.  I don't know what Leliana's excuse is.

[ejoslin]

Ryzaki wrote...

The assassin gave his vow to aid me. If he's not good for his word he's useless to me.

Oh geez, again, you spend a few minutes talking to him and are decent to him, give him his plot gifts (I assume you do at least that for your other companions) it just won't happen.  You really have to either ignore him, or actually WANT him to betray you, in order for that to happen.  BTW, he knows Taliesen will lose (you can find this out under a certain circumstance) so, you know, he probably is just finishing the suicide.  Unlike Wynne, who sides with a powerful spirit whom she thinks CAN kill you.

But I get that you don't like Zevran and kill him at his ambush.  But saying Wynne, who ALSO swore her loyalty to you and your cause, who tries to press on you constantly you are the only one who can save Ferelden...  well, I see that as far worse.

Edit: Ninja'ed by Addai, and she said it MUCH better.

Second edit: A non-metagaming reason for sparing Zevran, really, is that you now know you have a contract out on you by an organization that will do anything to kill you.  If you have your assassin WITH you, it buys you time as they won't know whether he's planning on poisoning your food or whatever.

Yeh, if Zevran was seriously trying to kill you, another thing he may point out to you -- he's immune to a few poisons that will kill the warden.  His intentions are NOT to kill the warden.

Modifié par ejoslin, 26 octobre 2010 - 03:57 .

[Ryzaki]

ejoslin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

The assassin gave his vow to aid me. If he's not good for his word he's useless to me.

Oh geez, again, you spend a few minutes talking to him and are decent to him, give him his plot gifts (I assume you do at least that for your other companions) it just won't happen.  You really have to either ignore him, or actually WANT him to betray you, in order for that to happen.  BTW, he knows Taliesen will lose (you can find this out under a certain circumstance) so, you know, he probably is just finishing the suicide.  Unlike Wynne, who sides with a powerful spirit whom she thinks CAN kill you.

But I get that you don't like Zevran and kill him at his ambush.  But saying Wynne, who ALSO swore her loyalty to you and your cause, who tries to press on you constantly you are the only one who can save Ferelden...  well, I see that as far worse.

The fact is I don't have to do that for any other companions (not even Sten) but him. HE's the only one who swore a vow to me. ...Jeez if he wants to kill himself can't he be a real man and do it in the deep roads? That's an honorable way to go. 

And yes. I ignored him. The decision to spare him was already metagaming and my PC wasn't the type who would talk to him other than giving orders. She saw he betrayed her when "huh." and slaughtered him. Then kept going. 

That said I never said Wynne was better than Zevran. (Her constant preaching irks me too.) 

[Ryzaki]

Addai67 wrote...

And he did aid you for most of the game, with no effort on your part to get to know him or show him that loyalty goes both ways.  If he flips on you, it's no one's fault but your own as far as I'm concerned.  A leader looks out for his troops.  If you're a poor leader, you deserve to lose them.

So it's my fault he made a vow and not followed through with it?  You don't actually think every single leader talks to all his her/troops. I didn't mistreat him, disrespect him or act callously. I simply didn't become buddy buddy with him. I was neutral not hostile. 

The sad thing about Zevran is that he knows when he attacks you that he's going to lose.  He is just carrying through his original plan to commit suicide by Warden.

And that makes him a coward. He's not strong enough to kill himself on his own. 

Wynne, OTOH, apparently attacks me because I don't share her religious beliefs.  This, after telling me that I'm the only thing that stands between humanity and the darkness.  Personally, I think the lyrium and the possession by a spirit has made her batty.  I don't know what Leliana's excuse is.

LOL I found that just as wallbangery as Zev's betrayal. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:02 .

[ejoslin]

You obviously ignored him. Which is kind of stupid, from an in-game perspective, as he IS your assassin. He does fight for you, anyway, doesn't try to kill you (which he could have easily done with poison), but when he's forced to choose (and at that point he is), how he chooses depends entirely on you.

The really funny thing, though, is if he stays with you as a friend, he does want to leave afterwards, and you will learn he made that vow only because you had him tied up and at knife point. His sticking with you, not killing, etc., actually had nothing to do with the vow he made. It was a genuine desire to leave the crows, and then later, to help end the blight. Actually, it's an interesting thing, because if Taliesen is killed, he has his only real chance at freedom -- he sticks with the warden, he'l be on the run the rest of his life because, of course, the crows will know very well he's still alive.  He has the most to lose, beyond dying, than any of the companions if he stays.  But he will stay after that point.  He chooses the warden who's a friend over his own freedom.  A lover, there's no doubt, though.  He wants to stay. 

BUUUT! Wynne sucks.

Modifié par ejoslin, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:06 .

[Ryzaki]

True. But my warden wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and she if he'd keep his word. She wasn't overly concerned about him betraying her (she knew she'd put him down) so she decided to see if he was worth it. Turned out he wasn't.



I know that. I've played his friendship/romance all the way through.



Though yes. Wynne does suck. Alas. If only you could argue with her in a reasonable manner. *sighs at what could of been*

[KnightofPhoenix]

ejoslin wrote...

 Actually, it's an interesting thing, because if Taliesen is killed, he has his only real chance at freedom -- he sticks with the warden, he'l be on the run the rest of his life because, of course, the crows will know very well he's still alive.

I am not sure if I remember correctly, but didn't you have to persuade him to stay with the promise of treasure?
Obviously I don't think he is staying only for that, but it seems to be an influencing factor.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:06 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Especially when playing a mage who romances Zevran.



HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGG.



Honestly that combo is SO offensive.

[ejoslin]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

 Actually, it's an interesting thing, because if Taliesen is killed, he has his only real chance at freedom -- he sticks with the warden, he'l be on the run the rest of his life because, of course, the crows will know very well he's still alive.

I am not sure if I remember correctly, but didn't you have to persuade him to stay with the promise of treasure?
Obviously I don't think he is staying only for that, but it seems to be an influencing factor.

No.  There is that persuade check, but you don't have to take it.  If you ask him to stay as a friend, he'll stay.  And there's no persuade check there. 

Edit: His approval does have to be at least warm for him to be willing to stay, and it IS possible for him to drop into neutral during the course of that conversation IF you were very low in the warm and took a few approval-losing conversation choices.  But for the most part, you don't need a persuade check for him to stay.

Modifié par ejoslin, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:10 .

[Giggles_Manically]

When finishing one run, the first time I got Zevran to max approval, hearing him say:

I will not be going with you?



In such a sad tone, showed how much he had come to befriend the warden for me.



Also his line: "Give the Archdemon my regards."

Is epic.