576 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I am not sure if I remember correctly, but didn't you have to persuade him to stay with the promise of treasure?
Obviously I don't think he is staying only for that, but it seems to be an influencing factor.

Never ever used that line and I always get Zevran to stay.  He doesn't even have to be at Friendly.  He'll stay at Warm if you ask him to stay as a friend.  Really, it's too simple to get Zevran to stay with you, and he's the only one at end game who wants to continue to stay with you.  This discussion is lol for irony.

[ejoslin]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

When finishing one run, the first time I got Zevran to max approval, hearing him say:
I will not be going with you?

In such a sad tone, showed how much he had come to befriend the warden for me.

Also his line: "Give the Archdemon my regards."
Is epic.

!!!!!  Ugh, the bugged dialog!  If you had him at friendly, his dialog is supposed to be far different.  Of course, unless your game is modded, you're getting the wrong dialog at friend/love.  It's such a shame

[Addai]

Ryzaki wrote...

And yes. I ignored him. The decision to spare him was already metagaming and my PC wasn't the type who would talk to him other than giving orders. She saw he betrayed her when "huh." and slaughtered him. Then kept going. 

Ok well pardon, but your Warden did deserve it.  But then again I hate it when people think everyone's got to lick the Warden's boots for being oh so awesome.

[Aeowyn]

How is sparing Zevran metagaming? o.O

[KnightofPhoenix]

Thanks Addai and Ejoslin. Eh, Zevran probably ranks as one of the most loyal then.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:17 .

[AnniLau]

Caladhiel wrote...

AnniLau wrote...
What Zevran have you been traveling with?  

The one that betrays you if you don't have enough approval with him,.? 

Even in my first playthrough where I mostly ignored him, all he did was stand aside and not fight. I know he will betray you under the right - or wrong - circumstances, but it doesn't take much to prevent it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And yes. I ignored him. The decision to spare him was already metagaming and my PC wasn't the type who would talk to him other than giving orders. She saw he betrayed her when "huh." and slaughtered him. Then kept going. 

Ok well pardon, but your Warden did deserve it.  But then again I hate it when people think everyone's got to lick the Warden's boots for being oh so awesome.

To be fair, Zevran swears an oath of loyalty, he didn't specify that you need to be nice to him or not be oblivious to him. It seemed to be unconditional, in exchange for sparing his life.

Of course I don't think it's smart to ignore him or be rude to him. He's an assassin, a potential enemy, so I'd rather keep him close and not ****** him off.  And turn him into my assassin.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:22 .

[Ryzaki]

Addai67 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And yes. I ignored him. The decision to spare him was already metagaming and my PC wasn't the type who would talk to him other than giving orders. She saw he betrayed her when "huh." and slaughtered him. Then kept going. 

Ok well pardon, but your Warden did deserve it.  But then again I hate it when people think everyone's got to lick the Warden's boots for being oh so awesome.

My warden "deserved to be betrayed"? Now I could see you saying she shouldn't be surprised but "deserved"? She had done no wrong to Zevran. And he betrays her like a snake and coward attempting to stab her behind the back. INstead of being a man and doing it straight in her face. 

[ejoslin]

AnniLau wrote...

Caladhiel wrote...

AnniLau wrote...
What Zevran have you been traveling with?  

The one that betrays you if you don't have enough approval with him,.? 

Even in my first playthrough where I mostly ignored him, all he did was stand aside and not fight. I know he will betray you under the right - or wrong - circumstances, but it doesn't take much to prevent it.

You didn't completely ignore him -- you had the romance active  That happens between 26+ interested and 70 care -- if he's at 26+ warm or 71+ adore, he'll fight with you no matter what.

This IS his old lover, after all.

Modifié par ejoslin, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:27 .

[Ryzaki]

Aeowyn wrote...

How is sparing Zevran metagaming? o.O

For me it was. Dude's an assassin. For all you know he could attack you the moment you sleep. The only time I couldn't metagame with that decision was with my one PC who decided to pretend he was telling the truth. The others thought him a damned liar (and were proven right) and slit his throat. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:23 .

[ejoslin]

Ryzaki wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

How is sparing Zevran metagaming? o.O

For me it was. Dude's an assassin. For all you know he could attack you the moment you sleep. The only time I couldn't metagame with that decision was with my one PC who decided to pretend her was telling the truth. The others thought him a damned liar (and were proven right) and slit his throat. 

No, they weren't proven right.  Had Zevran wanted to kill you, your warden would have been dead.  Again, he will tell you, IF you ask him if he's still planning on killing you (this is a romance dialog) that there are poisons that he's immune to that could already be killing you.  He's teasing when he says it, but it's very true -- he easily could have killed the wardens, and everyone else.  He has to be forced to make a choice before he does anything against you.  And again, how he chooses is entirely up to the warden.

Modifié par ejoslin, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:26 .

[Ryzaki]

ejoslin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

How is sparing Zevran metagaming? o.O

For me it was. Dude's an assassin. For all you know he could attack you the moment you sleep. The only time I couldn't metagame with that decision was with my one PC who decided to pretend her was telling the truth. The others thought him a damned liar (and were proven right) and slit his throat. 

No, they weren't proven right.  Had Zevran wanted to kill you, your warden would have been dead.  Again, he will tell you, IF you ask him if he's still planning on killing you (this is romance dialog) that there are poisons that he's immune to that could already be killing you.  He's teasing when he says it, but it's very true -- he easily could have killed the wardens, and everyone else.  He has to be forced to make a choice before he does anything against you.  And again, how he chooses is entirely up to the warden.

Like how Loghain, Howe and every other boss in the game wanted you dead?  He might've been able to try but he'd of failed. 

That's only if my Warden was crazy enough to sleep with him. She wouldn't touch him with a 20 foot pole. 

The only way he can kill you so easily is if you take him into your crew. If you do take him into your crew he has at least Morrigan watching him (she does need the Warden alive after all) and between her and dog I'm sure he's not going to be stupid enough to attempt anything. (Besides who trusts the assassin with the food?). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:27 .

[AnniLau]

ejoslin wrote...

You didn't completely ignore him -- you had the romance active  That happens between 26+ interested and 70 care -- if he's at 26+ warm, he'll fight with you no matter what.

This IS his old lover, after all.

I said I mostly  ignored him!

I have no idea what I did to start the romance though...too long ago. That PC was all about Alistair though, so maybe Zev was following Leliana's example.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Of course I don't think it's smart to ignore him or be rude to him. He's an assassin, a potential enemy, so I'd rather keep him close and not ****** him off.  And turn him into my assassin.

Yes, exactly.  By "deserve," I mean it's natural justice for being stupid and a poor leader.

[Ryzaki]

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Of course I don't think it's smart to ignore him or be rude to him. He's an assassin, a potential enemy, so I'd rather keep him close and not ****** him off.  And turn him into my assassin.

Yes, exactly.  By "deserve," I mean it's natural justice for being stupid and a poor leader.

So following your logic someone who walks around at night deserves to be assulted. <_< People who wear the wrong clothes deserve to be assulted. After all there is no such thing as personal responsibility! 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:28 .

[ejoslin]

AnniLau wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

You didn't completely ignore him -- you had the romance active  That happens between 26+ interested and 70 care -- if he's at 26+ warm, he'll fight with you no matter what.

This IS his old lover, after all.

I said I mostly  ignored him!

I have no idea what I did to start the romance though...too long ago. That PC was all about Alistair though, so maybe Zev was following Leliana's example.

*grin* No, in an unmodded game, Leliana has an actual bug that will turn on the romance no matter what in a certain conversation picking a certain dialog choice (it most definitely IS a bug).  With Zevran, if you flirt even a little, the romance turns on.  If you clearly tell him, not interested, the romance cuts off completely, whereas with Leliana, because of that bug, it doesn't matter.

[Addai]

Ryzaki wrote...
So following your logic someone who walks around at night deserves to be assulted. <_< People who wear the wrong clothes deserve to be assulted. After all there is no such thing as personal responsibility! 

Heh, well I'm just saying your Warden is kind of an idiot.  You take an assassin in your camp and then don't even bother talking to him or trying to earn his trust, let alone seeing that he's a happy camper in your company, which IMO is something you should do for all your followers.

You're not some innocent person walking around on the street.  You're a military leader in charge of a band of mercenaries.  If you don't act like a good military leader, don't expect good results.  As in most things, you get out what you put in.

[Ryzaki]

Addai67 wrote...


Heh, well I'm just saying your Warden is kind of an idiot.  You take an assassin in your camp and then don't even bother talking to him or trying to earn his trust, let alone seeing that he's a happy camper in your company, which IMO is something you should do for all your followers.

You're not some innocent person walking around on the street.  You're a military leader in charge of a band of mercenaries.  If you don't act like a good military leader, don't expect good results.  As in most things, you get out what you put in.

The fact is that Zevran betrays me after giving his word when I've given him no cause for doing so. That's the problem. I placed in trust (I spared his life) in return I get a knife in the back. 

Once again. I'm not saying my Warden should've been shocked (she wasn't) but saying she deserved it is complete nonsense. You say this as if she was verbally berating him or giving him cause to want her dead. She wasn't. 

The person down the street doesn't have to be innocent. They still don't deserve to be assaulted for no reason. My Warden didn't deserve to be betrayed in such a manner. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:36 .

[ejoslin]

Ryzaki wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Of course I don't think it's smart to ignore him or be rude to him. He's an assassin, a potential enemy, so I'd rather keep him close and not ****** him off.  And turn him into my assassin.

Yes, exactly.  By "deserve," I mean it's natural justice for being stupid and a poor leader.

So following your logic someone who walks around at night deserves to be assulted. <_< People who wear the wrong clothes deserve to be assulted. After all there is no such thing as personal responsibility! 

That's a HUGE leap and does not follow.  You are leading people, and you don't talk to them at all?  Even though there are only a few of them?  That IS poor leadership.  You now have your assassin with you -- don't you want to talk to him and learn what is going on?  Why he really wanted to follow you?  Maybe, I don't know, make a judgement call whether to let him stay or maybe kill him if you realize you made a mistake sparing him?

[Ryzaki]

ejoslin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Of course I don't think it's smart to ignore him or be rude to him. He's an assassin, a potential enemy, so I'd rather keep him close and not ****** him off.  And turn him into my assassin.

Yes, exactly.  By "deserve," I mean it's natural justice for being stupid and a poor leader.

So following your logic someone who walks around at night deserves to be assulted. <_< People who wear the wrong clothes deserve to be assulted. After all there is no such thing as personal responsibility! 

That's a HUGE leap and does not follow.  You are leading people, and you don't talk to them at all?  Even though there are only a few of them?  That IS poor leadership.  You now have your assassin with you -- don't you want to talk to him and learn what is going on?  Why he really wanted to follow you?  Maybe, I don't know, make a judgement call whether to let him stay or maybe kill him if you realize you made a mistake sparing him?

You can talk to Zev and stay neutral you realize? 

And who said anything about him being my assassin? He's a companion who gave his word to me. And no I don't want to talk to him after having one conversation where he obviously disapproved because I didn't see things his way. The last thing I wanted was him being negative to me. 

Also...an assassin being trusted on his/her word? If I couldn't trust his inital promise why should I trust anything that comes after? 

I'd see if it was a mistake by his actions. Words while pretty are useless. And he certainly showed me. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:40 .

[AnniLau]

Ryzaki wrote...

The fact is that Zevran betrays me after giving his word when I've given him no cause for doing so.

You also gave him no reason not to.

[Ryzaki]

AnniLau wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

The fact is that Zevran betrays me after giving his word when I've given him no cause for doing so.

You also gave him no reason not to.

So being completely neutral to me he stabs me in the back. No warning no nothing. 

Well. at least I don't have to worry about the little snake anymore. :innocent: 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:43 .

[ejoslin]

Ryzaki wrote...

Addai67 wrote...


Heh, well I'm just saying your Warden is kind of an idiot.  You take an assassin in your camp and then don't even bother talking to him or trying to earn his trust, let alone seeing that he's a happy camper in your company, which IMO is something you should do for all your followers.

You're not some innocent person walking around on the street.  You're a military leader in charge of a band of mercenaries.  If you don't act like a good military leader, don't expect good results.  As in most things, you get out what you put in.

The fact is that Zevran betrays me after giving his word when I've given him no cause for doing so. That's the problem. I placed in trust (I spared his life) in return I get a knife in the back. 

Once again. I'm not saying my Warden should've been shocked (she wasn't) but saying she deserved it is complete nonsense. 

See, the problem is, you're assuming NO backstory here.  Zevran has a lot of reasons to kill you, actually.  If you took him with you, you'd hear the banters and realize he will suffer horribly if the crows get a hold of him.  Still, he stays with you, fights when asked, etc., until he is forced to make a choice.  And he chooses to let you kill him.

He obviously was NOT trying to kill you -- he was an assassin trained in using poisons and striking when it's not expected (which you learn if talking to him at all).  It's just bad judgement not talking to your assassin if you take him, and poor leadership as you are too, I dunno, careless?, to gauge if he is a danger to you and the rest of your companions.   Even Leliana will tell you that he needs more scrutiny than the rest of the companions.

But there are people out there who do think that sparing his life, even though he's subjecting himself to a far greater risk by going with you and not trying to kill you, should be enough.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:45 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
You're not some innocent person walking around on the street.  You're a military leader in charge of a band of mercenaries.  If you don't act like a good military leader, don't expect good results.  As in most things, you get out what you put in.

Thank you for agreeing (reversed deja vu)

[AnniLau]

Ryzaki wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

The fact is that Zevran betrays me after giving his word when I've given him no cause for doing so.

You also gave him no reason not to.

So being completely neutral to me he stabs me in the back. No warning no nothing. 

Well. at least I don't have to worry about the little snake anymore. :innocent: 

Having no reason to believe he could have any other life than that of a disgraced Crow, he threw himself on your blade.

Modifié par AnniLau, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:47 .