88 réponses à ce sujet

[menasure]

why guns when we already have crossbows for archers and mages acting like cannons?

[WildstarGoethe]

There are love guns in the game, but they are censored.

[armacham]

There are some ballistas in the temple that you can shoot at walls, not really a gun but hey, beggars can be choosers.

[MisanthropePrime]

Inhuman one wrote...

just go play some shallow stuff like world of warcraft if you must have guns, or just accept that not every developer wants to have guns in their game and actually prefers it if a character uses skill instead of simply pulling a trigger.

How does having a gun make a game shallow, or any more or less like warcraft? Additionally, how is having a gun any different than a crossbow, since they both involve simply loading and pulling a trigger? I'll continue to play the game, it is not as if this is a game-breaking problem for me. I just happen to prefer to have my characters use guns when they are available, as I am a fan of steampunk and settings analogous to the late medieval period. You automatically assume that I want automatic weapons, when that is not the case. Matchlock, smoothbore, rudimentary, that's what I expect. Don't jump down my throat about it.

[Wolfva2]

Inhuman one wrote...

just go play some shallow stuff like world of warcraft if you must have guns, or just accept that not every developer wants to have guns in their game and actually prefers it if a character uses skill instead of simply pulling a trigger.

<ROTFLOL>  You've never actually shot a gun, have you?  Takes quite a bit of skill to accurately hit your target.  Even more so in combat situations ( a hefty dose of luck comes in handy to).  In any case, this is a game; using firearms would take as much skill as using a bow or sword.  Ie.  pressing a button.

[phordicus]

i'm enjoying all the rewriting of arms escalation going on in this thread.

[jBookey]

I wouldn't want this game to be any closer related to Fable II

[Lucy Glitter]

Sorry if this was already said, but the Qunari discovered cannons, did they not?

edit: Darling Maria already said it.

Modifié par Lucy_Glitter, 13 novembre 2009 - 06:46 .

[Mordaedil]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Sorry if this was already said, but the Qunari discovered cannons, did they not?

edit: Darling Maria already said it.

It's alright, Lucy. We love you even if you are a bit slow, for a sexy goddess.

I think firearms have a bit of a bad stigma because they were used as an option in World of Warcraft, even though, it'd almost make more sense if they said "this isn't doom lol", which would kinda point out how intelligent those kind of statements are.

They are neither for nor against guns, so I think arguing manner of implementation would be more appropriate:

I'd like guns to be unique in this setting. Muskets and such are heavily overdone, as is modern weaponry. Renaissance type firearms are also kinda dull and wouldn't really offer much of a combat for a single person, considering the time it takes to reload one.

I think the ideal would be to look at crossbows as inspiration behind gun-makers, but take a little unique angle on it so it'd have a cartridge of ammo so it'd be more similar to a modern weapon, but still somehow seem appropriately old.

And we'd need handguns and rifles.

The biggest problem I foresee is, will this require an entirely new skill tree, would it use archery or would there be a new specialization called "Musketeer"? Oh wait, that means something else. I mean "Gunman". Err... Well, Bioware can think of something, I'm sure.

[MisanthropePrime]

Sticking guns into archery would be "okay", I suppose. Personally, the entire reason I was hoping there'd be guns in this game is because it takes so god damn long to load a crossbow (which is moderately accurate- at least you don't have a windlass style). They could also add another tree for guns, I guess- "pinning shot" doesn't really work. I'd suppose that a gun based tree would focus on cone AOE and be the AOE fans' version of archery, which would actually help alleviate a few complaints I have about archery characters in this game.

[EricHVela]

Meh. The ballistas are fun enough without gunpowder...

until your party starts wandering in front of them...



Then, it gets more fun!

[Polarbear2112]

Dragoro21 wrote...

Same reason putting a dragon into a ww2 story wouldnt work.

exactly!!

[Rhadagast60]

No guns in this game, please.



It seems like every time a fantasy RPG is made, the forums for that game are visited by someone who thinks the game should have guns. Every time. I wonder, why the obsession with guns in fantasy games?



It seems to me the people who always want guns in these games don't really "get" the Feeling or ambiance of this type of setting. To me, there's an elegance and beauty to these worlds. As dark and brutal as the setting for Dragon Age might be, it still has an ancient mystical feel to it.



It's The knights of the round table. Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. Maybe some Robin Hood. And probably most of all The Lord of the Rings. That type of setting really isn't broken and it doesn't need fixing. It doesn't need steam powered trains & lawn mowers. And it doesn't need guns.



Now, if Bioware wants to make a fantasy game with guns, go for it. I'm sure there's a market for it. But it would just be a different kind of setting than what we have here.



Then again, I just may be full of beans. Lol. But that's the way I see it.

[MisanthropePrime]

Rhadagast60 wrote...

No guns in this game, please.

It seems like every time a fantasy RPG is made, the forums for that game are visited by someone who thinks the game should have guns. Every time. I wonder, why the obsession with guns in fantasy games?

And I wonder "why not"? How do guns make a game less fantastic?

It seems to me the people who always want guns in these games don't really "get" the Feeling or ambiance of this type of setting. To me, there's an elegance and beauty to these worlds. As dark and brutal as the setting for Dragon Age might be, it still has an ancient mystical feel to it.

Buddy, I've been researching medieval and early modern arms for a good time now. Guns are no more or less elegant than many other weapons from the time period and they DID exist back then, even in rudimentary form. Do bear in mind the ancient greeks had steam engines and napalm, and those are considered "modern" inventions.

It's The knights of the round table. Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. Maybe some Robin Hood. And probably most of all The Lord of the Rings. That type of setting really isn't broken and it doesn't need fixing. It doesn't need steam powered trains & lawn mowers. And it doesn't need guns.

This game has democratically elected nobles and extreme gender parity. If this was during the time of King Arthur (pre-Roman Britain), women would be little more than walking ovaries. Not to mention the fact that the Qunari are said to already HAVE gunpowder and the dwarves have an extremely mechanized economy. You also forget that guns appeared hundreds of years before the invention of the steam powered train, originating in China in the 13th century (and the Qunari seem to be the closest to China we're going to get in Thedas) and making their way were used EXTENSIVELY by the Turks during the siege of Constantinople as well as various states involved in the Crusades.

Now, if Bioware wants to make a fantasy game with guns, go for it. I'm sure there's a market for it. But it would just be a different kind of setting than what we have here.

How so? How would guns change any of the storyline or "feel" of the game other than open a few more roleplaying angles (as I said before- I like my characters to use guns because I like to roleplay my characters as early adopters of new technology). This is a game where people can take lightningbolts to the face and survive, don't tell me that guns would make it too easy to kill people- medieval guns were not much more deadly than crossbows at the time, they just required less training to use.

Then again, I just may be full of beans. Lol. But that's the way I see it.

It seems to me you are getting confused. You say Bioware is making a realistic medieval fantasy game and then justify your statements using romanticized and anachronistic "fairy tale" stories. The real medieval period, or at least the period Bioware is trying to put Ferelden in, had guns. Not sniper rifles, not AK-47s, but smoothbore matchlocks. I like them for flavor, and the possibility of storytelling they bring. Is it a dealbreaker for me? No- I've already played through the game on two characters and loved it. But that doesn't mean the setting can't be improved. Who knows, maybe an expansion or sequel that sends us to Orlais, the Imperium, the lands of Qun or even beyond may be more technologically advanced. I can wait.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

There should be. Maybe in DLC.

[OnesOwnGrief]

Cl_Flushentityhero wrote...

There should be. Maybe in DLC.

How about we just say no to this. Guns do not fit with the swords and magic theme. Honestly I can't even remember a gun being in D&D. Given this is not D&D, it still goes against the general theme of the game which in turn makes it even less plausible. 

[MisanthropePrime]

OnesOwnGrief wrote...

Cl_Flushentityhero wrote...

There should be. Maybe in DLC.

How about we just say no to this. Guns do not fit with the swords and magic theme. Honestly I can't even remember a gun being in D&D. Given this is not D&D, it still goes against the general theme of the game which in turn makes it even less plausible. 

Someone's never played a round of Spelljammer. Or cracked open a rulebook to look up "Gond".



Not to mention the fact that guns coexisted with swords for hundreds of years. You should all read this article.

http://tvtropes.org/...ntasyGunControl

Modifié par MisanthropePrime, 15 novembre 2009 - 06:28 .

[zydxt]

Certainly NO.The game would be better without guns~

[dethtrapp242]

i think the game would be WAY worse if it had guns. thats pretty much the main reason that i didnt like fable 2 as much as i could have

[DallasMead]

Jade Empire had a single gun you could acquire through a side quest.

[MisanthropePrime]

dethtrapp242 wrote...

i think the game would be WAY worse if it had guns. thats pretty much the main reason that i didnt like fable 2 as much as i could have

Fable II was pretty obviously NOT set in the medieval period, though. You can't blame them for setting it in what seemed to be the late 17th, early 18th century.

[OnesOwnGrief]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

OnesOwnGrief wrote...

Cl_Flushentityhero wrote...

There should be. Maybe in DLC.

How about we just say no to this. Guns do not fit with the swords and magic theme. Honestly I can't even remember a gun being in D&D. Given this is not D&D, it still goes against the general theme of the game which in turn makes it even less plausible. 

It's called "eberron", or, if you're feeling dangerous, "spelljammer".



Not to mention the fact that guns coexisted with swords for hundreds of years. You should all read this article.

http://tvtropes.org/...ntasyGunControl

Actually i've never done an eberron campaign, nor a spelljammer one. Reading the article its already apparent that guns from that time were pretty much ineffective in the long run because of the slow rate of fire. Crossbows in this game already have horrid reload and a gun would be even worst. In my opinion anything prior to a musket would be ineffective since you have mages that could in effect kill you before you were even to fire a 2nd shot before you were done reloading.

[MisanthropePrime]

Guns at the time period had a comparable rate of fire but extremely high armor penetration when compared to crossbows, plus the possibility of cone AOE damage.

[VenorikVelv]

I personally wouldn't want to see guns in this game. But hey, that doesn't mean you shouldn't.

Justifying guns in this game due to the historical period where they came around, or saying full plate armor shouldn't be here for the same reason, doesnt seem to make sense - Dragon Age doesn't need to be historically accurate when it doesn't even take place in real life. It's a world of its own, so it has it's own technological time line. Especially when you factor in magic.

[MisanthropePrime]

VenorikVelv wrote...

I personally wouldn't want to see guns in this game. But hey, that doesn't mean you shouldn't.
Justifying guns in this game due to the historical period where they came around, or saying full plate armor shouldn't be here for the same reason, doesnt seem to make sense - Dragon Age doesn't need to be historically accurate when it doesn't even take place in real life. It's a world of its own, so it has it's own technological time line. Especially when you factor in magic.

That'd be nice if, A, gunpowder and cannons didn't already exist and B, people try to justify the lack of guns using historical examples. Not to mention that magic ISN'T very prevalent and is, in fact, tightly controlled and has not had a huge effect on the lives of the common man (most houses aren't built using telekinetics, electricity isn't supplied by hooking a mage up to a generator, nobody cooks using fireballs, etc).