22 réponses à ce sujet

[magelet]

Sovereign is just the most terrifying/impressive video game villain that I have encountered.  His dialogue, voice, purpose, and so on are enough to scare the bejeezus out of you.

So let's discuss everyone's favorite reaper!

[dgumb]

 Sovereign was a bad ass, much more so than Harbinger. Course I might just be biased because I have a particular fondness for spaceships and cephalopods.

[magelet]

I was trying to think about why Sovereign is so much more impressive than Harbinger. I mean aside from his lame battle cries, Harbinger should be equally frightening. Instead of geth he has Collectors: a genetically altered race of bug people; creepy, right?

I think it is just that Harby never faces you outright, he only fights through other thing which makes him seem weak. Sovereign on the other hand takes the fight right to you (which I guess resulted in his destruction...).

[dgumb]

magelet wrote...

I was trying to think about why Sovereign is so much more impressive than Harbinger. I mean aside from his lame battle cries, Harbinger should be equally frightening. Instead of geth he has Collectors: a genetically altered race of bug people; creepy, right?
I think it is just that Harby never faces you outright, he only fights through other thing which makes him seem weak. Sovereign on the other hand takes the fight right to you (which I guess resulted in his destruction...).

I think you're right about that. With Sovereign you're faced with a reaper itself, with Harbinger he isn't ever revealed until the end, but until then he's just a giant bug that talks too much.

[Ieldra]

magelet wrote...
I was trying to think about why Sovereign is so much more impressive than Harbinger. I mean aside from his lame battle cries, Harbinger should be equally frightening. Instead of geth he has Collectors: a genetically altered race of bug people; creepy, right?
I think it is just that Harby never faces you outright, he only fights through other thing which makes him seem weak. Sovereign on the other hand takes the fight right to you (which I guess resulted in his destruction...).

Harbinger has no presence. It talks your ear off with cheesy villain lines, where Sovereign lets you feel the weight of its presence and talks in the impersonal and indifferent manner appropriate for an enemy who is bigger than you in many ways. 

It would have been better had we faced Harbinger controlling the Collector General in a boss fight instead of the would-be human Reaper at the end of the game, and it would have been better had Harbinger not talked at all in battle, but given a suitably intelligent speech before that boss fight.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 octobre 2010 - 07:50 .

[kraidy1117]

I don't care for the two Reapers at all. Sovereign was your classic "Your puny mortals, you will die!" crap, arrogant and stupid. Now we have Harby who never talks to the player, spouts comical cheesy lines. The only good thing is he is more subtle and did not put his life on the line, he did things smart, but a last no conversation. So I don't care for either, I only prefer Harby more because he made me laugh my ass off.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

kraidy1117 wrote...

I don't care for the two Reapers at all. Sovereign was your classic "Your puny mortals, you will die!" crap, arrogant and stupid. Now we have Harby who never talks to the player, spouts comical cheesy lines. The only good thing is he is more subtle and did not put his life on the line, he did things smart, but a last no conversation. So I don't care for either, I only prefer Harby more because he made me laugh my ass off.

I disagree about Sovereign, he worked because he wasn't the only bad guy. Saren was also there. The story had Sovereign and the Reapers as the dark looming threat on the horizon while Saren served as the antagonist for Shepard on a more personal level. Sovereign also left a good impression because the speech with him really leaves with the impression that's he some god-like being, while you are nothing.

Harbinger just fails on every level.

[kraidy1117]

Lizardviking wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

I don't care for the two Reapers at all. Sovereign was your classic "Your puny mortals, you will die!" crap, arrogant and stupid. Now we have Harby who never talks to the player, spouts comical cheesy lines. The only good thing is he is more subtle and did not put his life on the line, he did things smart, but a last no conversation. So I don't care for either, I only prefer Harby more because he made me laugh my ass off.

I disagree about Sovereign, he worked because he wasn't the only bad guy. Saren was also there. The story had Sovereign and the Reapers as the dark looming threat on the horizon while Saren served as the antagonist for Shepard on a more personal level. Sovereign also left a good impression because the speech with him really leaves with the impression that's he some god-like being, while you are nothing.

Harbinger just fails on every level.

I didn't like Saren or Sovereign. They where just meh. Harby was meh. The only good villians where the SB, Tela and TIM.

[Computer_God91]

I love everything about Sovereign, its voice, personality, its terrifying presence. I think the reason why Sovereign completely betters Harbinger in every way is that Bioware didn't take the opportunity to create Harbinger in to Sovereign 2.0. Instead we got a reaper who never appears in game until the end, we never got to converse with it like we did Sovereign, and he taunts us all game which isn't even that cool. Plus his voice isn't a cold and robotic as Sovereigns was.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

I don't care for the two Reapers at all. Sovereign was your classic "Your puny mortals, you will die!" crap, arrogant and stupid. Now we have Harby who never talks to the player, spouts comical cheesy lines. The only good thing is he is more subtle and did not put his life on the line, he did things smart, but a last no conversation. So I don't care for either, I only prefer Harby more because he made me laugh my ass off.

I disagree about Sovereign, he worked because he wasn't the only bad guy. Saren was also there. The story had Sovereign and the Reapers as the dark looming threat on the horizon while Saren served as the antagonist for Shepard on a more personal level. Sovereign also left a good impression because the speech with him really leaves with the impression that's he some god-like being, while you are nothing.

Harbinger just fails on every level.

I didn't like Saren or Sovereign. They where just meh. Harby was meh. The only good villians where the SB, Tela and TIM.

Tela Vasir and SB were interesting enough, but they were like villains for a sub-plot. TIM is an awesome character, but he's never truly been one of the bad guys (nor was he ever one of the good guys) and I hope he will stay that way in ME3.

Shepard needs an antagonist that he can "relate" to on a personal level in ME3, as long as the character isn't completely like Saren. I had hoped Vasir would still be alive, her character had so much potential.

[magelet]

I think another thing about Sovereign was how the whole situation was more ominous. In ME2 you know about the reapers, but in ME1, it's all pretty mysterious and unclear until you get closer to the end. You still think that the Geth and Saren are the main problems, and they are things you can understand at least.

The unknown is always more frightening.

[Ieldra]

magelet wrote...
I think another thing about Sovereign was how the whole situation was more ominous. In ME2 you know about the reapers, but in ME1, it's all pretty mysterious and unclear until you get closer to the end. You still think that the Geth and Saren are the main problems, and they are things you can understand at least.
The unknown is always more frightening.

Yes, but if Harbinger had brought us those mystifying hints about "ascension" and "salvation through destruction" in a suitably dramatic situation, for instance as a pre-final boss conversation, instead of quoting cheap cardboard villain lines 80% of the time, its presence would have been much better.

[CommanderSheperd117]

 Hence my bright orange signature at the end of this post. By the way, if you want to discuss Reapers as a whole, the Reaper group is under this link:



social.bioware.com/group/1126/#group

[CommanderSheperd117]

Ieldra2 wrote...

magelet wrote...
I was trying to think about why Sovereign is so much more impressive than Harbinger. I mean aside from his lame battle cries, Harbinger should be equally frightening. Instead of geth he has Collectors: a genetically altered race of bug people; creepy, right?
I think it is just that Harby never faces you outright, he only fights through other thing which makes him seem weak. Sovereign on the other hand takes the fight right to you (which I guess resulted in his destruction...).

Harbinger has no presence. It talks your ear off with cheesy villain lines, where Sovereign lets you feel the weight of its presence and talks in the impersonal and indifferent manner appropriate for an enemy who is bigger than you in many ways. 

It would have been better had we faced Harbinger controlling the Collector General in a boss fight instead of the would-be human Reaper at the end of the game, and it would have been better had Harbinger not talked at all in battle, but given a suitably intelligent speech before that boss fight.

^^ this        Harbinger jumping around like the Sovereign controlled final boss of ME. that would be epic. 

[Captain Crash]

Sovereign was God! Or so he believed.



His arrogance and ideology made him such a great character. He had virtually no time for Shepard and puny unintelligent mortals. It was stereotypical but it worked so well.



"Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding. There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension. I am Sovereign."





Enough Said, a worthy enemy! Unlike cheese filled Harbinger!

[AdmiralCheez]

Sovereign was BAMF; his voice gave me chills, and I seriously freaked out when he assumed direct control of Saren's corpse. Harby came across as his idiot little brother.



You know what'd be cool? If we had two or three primary Reaper adversaries in ME3. Not just Harby, but another as well, one with a personality different than either Harby OR Sov. Perhaps something colder, creepier, malicious even...

[magelet]

Captain Crash wrote...
His arrogance and ideology made him such a great character. He had virtually no time for Shepard and puny unintelligent mortals. It was stereotypical but it worked so well.

I agree.  If a villain thinks they have the capabilities to destroy everything (and can prove that they've done so before) it makes them a lot more frightening. 
Also he has the most badass voice. It's weird that he also did miscellaneous voices in ME that sound considerably less terrifying.

[magelet]

Okay here's a question: Why did Sovereign take over Saren when it provided Shepard a way to kill him? Did he really think Shep was such a threat? Are Reapers capable of frustration which would cause him to make a rash decision?

Or was it just the devs giving you a way to beat him?

[Herr Sovereign]

I appreciate the adoration from all of you



No, but really, Sovereign was the ultimate embodiment of evil I have ever seen in a video game. Even though Saren held a more central villian role in the first Mass Effect, in terms of interaction, Sovereign had that aura of power and fear that would demoralize other people. The meaning of his name also strikes a sense of monarchy over every organic lifeform to have ever existed. Unfortunately, I never got the same impression from Harbinger. Regardless, he is one of the prime reasons why I appreciate the Mass Effect franchise more than any other video game out there.

[Kitedtk]

I tried to search the forums for this, but couldn't find anything.

Does anyone have a working link of his speech files? Or anything like it?

WhatI would like is some help on how to access his speech files. I want to make my computer startup sound be his entire speech. I can combine the speech files etc. myself, but I need access to the actual files and am at a loss as to how to do this.

I tried to find the files, any information on extracting them, guides, just about anything, but to no avail. It would be absolutely awesome if someone was willing to help me out on this or atleast point me in the right direction.

In case someone is willing to help and I do get it all done, I want to share this with other people. Would be an awesome task to complete and share the benefits with the rest of the community.

His speech was probably the final thing that absolutely addicted me to the saga.

Modifié par Kitedtk, 22 novembre 2010 - 03:59 .

[Blze001]

magelet wrote...

Okay here's a question: Why did Sovereign take over Saren when it provided Shepard a way to kill him? Did he really think Shep was such a threat? Are Reapers capable of frustration which would cause him to make a rash decision?
Or was it just the devs giving you a way to beat him?

I think it was merely overconfidence on the part of Sovereign. I mean, Shepard was a puny human. Granted, he did get farther than Sov ever anticipated, but in the end I think Sov thought he'd be a pushover.

[Cra5y Pineapple]

Ieldra2 wrote...
It would have been better had we faced Harbinger controlling the Collector General in a boss fight instead of the would-be human Reaper at the end of the game, and it would have been better had Harbinger not talked at all in battle, but given a suitably intelligent speech before that boss fight.

There's a problem with that, you see Sovereign is the only Reaper with social skills. I imagine the others can't hold a conversation and just randomly say "THIS HURTS YOU" all the time.

[Kim Shepard]

Sovereign's speech on Virmire was one of my favorite scenes. It was also one of the few I hadn't read about ahead of time, and that just made it even more impressive. Sovereign was definitely intimidating. Harbinger didn't inspire that same feeling for my Shepards.

magelet wrote...

Okay here's a question: Why did Sovereign take over Saren when it provided Shepard a way to kill him? Did he really think Shep was such a threat? Are Reapers capable of frustration which would cause him to make a rash decision?
Or was it just the devs giving you a way to beat him?

I don't think Sovereign had much choice at that point. It needed to open the relay, and the only person who could do that was dead. Assuming direct control would have been the only option, even though it would leave Sovereign vulnerable if Saren's body was destroyed. You're probably right that Sovereign underestimated Shepard. Or overestimated its own ability. My theory is that Sovereign was just too distracted by the battle and didn't release control of Saren in time. Even for something as powerful as a Reaper, it must be difficult to fight off all of those ships while controlling Saren's body in battle.

I'm not sure if the Reapers are capable of emotion. I think they're better without it, personally. Just cold reason with no real feeling behind their decisions seems more frightening, alien, and superior in a way.