205 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightwriter]

Why do I wake up in a strange place, during a strange station attack, talk to a strange man I’ve never met, hear him tell me about strange new enemies I've never heard of, believe him and then agree to work with him right off the bat, all ten minutes after I come out of a zombie coma?

It feels kind of unnatural. If I come out of a zombie coma the first thing I'm going to do isn't to take a field trip with strangers. I'd want to get out and find someone I know, figure out what the hell is going on. We sort of gloss over that part, just like we sort of gloss over Wilson's motives and the Lazarus Project. It's kind of weird.

Maybe it's just me.

[Netzach]

But you aren't Commander Shepard, you wouldn't save the galaxy.

[GodWood]

Nightwriter wrote...

Maybe it's just me.

Its not

[MajFauxPas]

Not just you, it's a quick-and-dirty way to put you straight into the action, which BioWare loves to do. They're just mixing it up a bit, since they don't want to repeat what they've done in the past.

[Therion942]

ProTip: Because they are.

[Nightwriter]

But I like what BioWare has done in the past. It always had a sense of thoroughness.

Where did the thoroughness go?

[firecleaner]

Nightwriter wrote...
Maybe it's just me.

GodWood wrote...
Its not

Seconded... 

It was forced... but you are forced to become a Spectre and chase Saren in the first one but that's a bad analogy you want to find out why he attacked Eden Prime/WTH are the Reapers atleast I did.

Modifié par firecleaner, 25 octobre 2010 - 07:07 .

[Therion942]

Nightwriter wrote...

But I like what BioWare has done in the past. It always had a sense of thoroughness.

Where did the thoroughness go?

It was abandoned to make room for breasts and explosions.

[Nightwriter]

firecleaner wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Maybe it's just me.

GodWood wrote...
Its not

Seconded...

It was forced... but you are forced to become a Spectre and chase Saren in the first one but that's a bad analogy you want to find out why he attacked Eden Prime/WTH are the Reapers atleast I did.

Yeah, I've never liked that analogy much either.

For one, becoming a Spectre is a neutral move, it isn't paragon or renegade. Spectrehood is POWAH.

Secondly, Spectrehood is awesome; joining Cerberus sucks. Spectrehood opens doors; joining Cerberus closes doors.

Third, they make it really easy for you to see why you should become a Spectre, but they don't do as good a job of showing us that joining Cerberus is as necessary as they make it out to be.

[pjotroos]

To quote myself from another thread:

The thing that tested my suspension of disbelief the most was the beginning. Not the planetfall, and not the resurrection - the fact I immidiately find out it's all Cerberus doing, and the ease with which I'm supposed to get over it and start to cooperate. I was fresh after another playthrough of first Mass Effect and I did all sidequests involving Cerberus there. Being Akuze survivor, I learned about their involvement in the thresher maw attack. There was no way I would agree to cooperate so easily. I missed the option to simply tell Miranda and Jacob to go to hell, to be openly hostile with TIM, to demand a visit to Citadel before touching anything like Freedom's Progress. I didn't trust them, and I had no reason to believe I was dead for two years and they were my saviours. For all I knew, I could've been retrieved by the Alliance and then kidnapped by Cerberus while unconcious. The whole switching sides was handled horribly - and worse so, completely pointless. TIM could just as well be behind Terra Firma, or some other, yet unmet shady organization. Or he could be Cerberus, but without us finding out until much later on. Instead, writers took the worst way about it. I didn't properly get into the game until at the very least replacing Miranda in my squad. And I hated it every single time when someone had a go at me for working with Cerberus - Tali, Anderson, Garrus, Ashley. If you really want us getting all that flack, at least make it about something that was really our choice!

Modifié par pjotroos, 25 octobre 2010 - 07:28 .

[lovgreno]

I fully agree Nightwriter.



It is hinted that Shepards consience made him/her decide a fast action with the allies they could get at the moment was needed despite the high costs (closing doors to all who wants to see Cerberus gone, wich is basicaly everyone). Joining Cerberus was never supposed to be a easy decision and the story was written to make us constantly doubt if it was worth it.

[Christmas Ape]

Nightwriter wrote...
But I like what BioWare has done in the past. It always had a sense of thoroughness.

Where did the thoroughness go?

Into the Liara/Legion intro that explains the N7 armor welded to his platform but would have required you to play someone other than Shepard from the beginning of the game, and thus got mercilessly scrapped.

'No data available' indeed.

[Nightwriter]

lovgreno wrote...

I fully agree Nightwriter.

It is hinted that Shepards consience made him/her decide a fast action with the allies they could get at the moment was needed despite the high costs (closing doors to all who wants to see Cerberus gone, wich is basicaly everyone). Joining Cerberus was never supposed to be a easy decision and the story was written to make us constantly doubt if it was worth it.

Well something else was how they tried to create drama and tension around your decision to work with Cerberus.

This attempt was totally impotent to me; no drama was felt. How can I feel drama when I didn't choose to join Cerberus in the first place, when I think the whole thing is kind of half-assed, rushed, and silly?

[AresXX7]

Nightwriter wrote...

Why do I wake up in a strange place, during a strange station attack, talk to a strange man I’ve never met, hear him tell me about strange new enemies I've never heard of, believe him and then agree to work with him right off the bat, all ten minutes after I come out of a zombie coma?

It feels kind of unnatural. If I come out of a zombie coma the first thing I'm going to do isn't to take a field trip with strangers. I'd want to get out and find someone I know, figure out what the hell is going on. We sort of gloss over that part, just like we sort of gloss over Wilson's motives and the Lazarus Project. It's kind of weird.

Maybe it's just me.

It's not you.

I think a lot of what was done in the prologue of ME2, was a by-product of the 'stand alone' concept they were going for.

I'd say Bioware wanted to expedite it quickly & vaguely, as possible, so the 'newcomers' wouldn't feel out of place in the story. (didn't work for me - but I'm still inclined to believe that was their goal)

Modifié par AriesXX7, 25 octobre 2010 - 07:41 .

[Nightwriter]

Sounds like I should rename this thread, "Did they make ME2 too much of a simplified standalone game" then.

pjotroos wrote...

To quote myself from another thread:

The thing that tested my suspension of disbelief the most was the beginning. Not the planetfall, and not the resurrection - the fact I immidiately find out it's all Cerberus doing, and the ease with which I'm supposed to get over it and start to cooperate. I was fresh after another playthrough of first Mass Effect and I did all sidequests involving Cerberus there. Being Akuze survivor, I learned about their involvement in the thresher maw attack. There was no way I would agree to cooperate so easily. I missed the option to simply tell Miranda and Jacob to go to hell, to be openly hostile with TIM, to demand a visit to Citadel before touching anything like Freedom's Progress. I didn't trust them, and I had no reason to believe I was dead for two years and they were my saviours. For all I knew, I could've been retrieved by the Alliance and then kidnapped by Cerberus while unconcious. The whole switching sides was handled horribly - and worse so, completely pointless. TIM could just as well be behind Terra Firma, or some other, yet unmet shady organization. Or he could be Cerberus, but without us finding out until much later on. Instead, writers took the worst way about it. I didn't properly get into the game until at the very least replacing Miranda in my squad. And I hated it every single time when someone had a go at me for working with Cerberus - Tali, Anderson, Garrus, Ashley. If you really want us getting all that flack, at least make it about something that was really our choice!

I see your problem. You played ME1 first. You must never do that.

Look what it did to me.

[CaptainZaysh]

I remember Patrick Weekes saying that the pre-release anxiety on the forums about working for Cerberus led them to actually beef up that part of the story! So it could have been worse.

[Lumikki]

Nightwriter wrote...

Maybe it's just me.

It's you and few others.

My point is that if someone doesn't like how the story goes or starts, so what, not everyting in life allways go the direction how you wanted. Sure, there was some unexplain situation, but so it has been in hole Mass Effect story, if you look closer enough.

[Nightwriter]

Well, I think every time there's a criticism there's always someone who's going to go "boo hoo".

Sometimes the criticism is pretty meaningless and the boo hoo is appropriate.

Sometimes the criticism is actually worth looking at, and it's the boo hoo that's meaningless.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 25 octobre 2010 - 09:17 .

[philiposophy]

The problem is that you have to agree to TIM's terms before you can seek out aid from the Alliance and the Council. But of course they then refuse you because of your Cerberus connections. It is forced and it is lame.

A far better option would have been this:

• Shepard escapes the chaos of Lazarus station and makes his way to the Citadel after Freedom's Progress.
• Shepard is informed by the Council/Anderson/Udina that their forces took a pounding that they don't have the manpower or fleets to do anything. They have a hard enough time keeping order in the Traverse, where pirates have become more daring knowing the Council is weakened.
• Anderson/Udina subtlely hints that Shepard will need to find backing from an organization that is active in the Terminus already, making clear who they mean.
• Shepard meets up with Miranda and Jacob and says s/he is willing to see the Illusive Man/take him up on his offer.

Or something like that.

[Nightwriter]

I would've loved that phil. That's my biggest beef, that you can't go to the Council first. 

Actually I would also have liked a scene where they use show-don't-tell to demonstrate Cerberus's value to us.

Shepard is investigating colonies on his own and Cerberus sweeps in at the eleventh hour with ships and guns and fights the Collectors off. It really starts to sink in: Cerberus is the only one doing anything about this, the only one taking effective action.

[CrimsonSpinach]

I sure as hell hope that ME3 has an 'import only' start to it, rather than bastardize the story to suit new players.

[philiposophy]

I tried to cover that in my idea by having Anderson/Udina (not the Council obviously) endorse them because they are in the Terminus already and won't cause the same political chaos and fallout that an Alliance or Council armada would.

It would also be nice if they could communicate some way in which TIM was using his skills and information network to see when and where the collectors were striking, and then deploying Cerberus troops appropriately.

Shepard sticks to the real important stuff like the IFF, and Cerberus seem much more necessary. Thus they have proper moral ambiguity - they've done nasty things but they are also needed without question for the time being.

[Asheer_Khan]

CrimsonSpinach wrote...

I sure as hell hope that ME3 has an 'import only' start to it, rather than bastardize the story to suit new players.

Sorry to burst your bubble but ME 3 will be again stand alone type so it's very possible that choices made in ME 2 will have as same "bg impact" on game story as ME 1 choices have on ME 2 game story <_<.

[Nightwriter]

You're depressing me, Asheer.

[Collider]

Nightwriter wrote...

Why do I wake up in a strange place, during a strange station attack, talk to a strange man I’ve never met, hear him tell me about strange new enemies I've never heard of, believe him and then agree to work with him right off the bat, all ten minutes after I come out of a zombie coma?

It feels kind of unnatural. If I come out of a zombie coma the first thing I'm going to do isn't to take a field trip with strangers. I'd want to get out and find someone I know, figure out what the hell is going on. We sort of gloss over that part, just like we sort of gloss over Wilson's motives and the Lazarus Project. It's kind of weird.

Maybe it's just me.

I'd probably go with oversight (Bioware not knowing that players would care that much or that they'd find it rushed/wrong), time restraints, or resource restraints such as the 2 disc thing.