288 réponses à ce sujet

[MrDizazta]

We need an ANDERSON DLC where you play as Anderson.

[DIrishB]

RiouHotaru wrote...

http://i.usatoday.ne...ct/images/1.jpg

Huh...Page 4 isn't working at that link.

[noobzor99]

MrDizaztar wrote...

We need an ANDERSON DLC where you play as Anderson.

That would be awesome.

UDINA, STOP KILLING PEOPLE I LIKE.

[TuringPoint]

 I found that the art set the mood fairly well and I could recognize the characters well enough to not be "disgusted" - and I wouldn't be disgusted anyway, if the story were drawn in stick figures with caricatured faces.  I would think Bioware was crazy and just ignore it.

It was a good story, and I liked catching up with Bailey and just a little of what was going on before ME3.  Of course it doesn't have the depth of a novel, but it's well-written, even if it raises more questions than it answers.  

I was pretty well impressed with what was there.  Mind you, I probably took my time to form an opinion, rather than glancing at and going to throw a tantrum in the forums.  

Case in point:  Bailey is not elected head of c-sec, he is promoted because there is a vacancy and Udina has positions to fill.  In fact, that's exactly what Udina says.

I don't recall seeing a comic that wasn't badly drawn, as a part of the style of being a comic. Meh.


About the "retcon" of our choice in ME1:

Retroactive continuity (often shortened to retcon[1]) refers to the deliberate alteration of previously established facts in a work of serial fiction.

This change doesn't even alter the established continuity.  It is not a retroactive change.  It is an evolution of the game's universe, a fairly logical one, even.  Anderson leaves his post on the Citadel to fill a role he believes more suited to his skillset.

Modifié par Alocormin, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:36 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

MrDizaztar wrote...

We need an ANDERSON DLC where you play as Anderson.

I'd rather help or fight with Anderson than actually be Anderson.

[gadna13]

Alocormin wrote...

This change doesn't even alter the established continuity.  It is not a retroactive change.  It is an evolution of the game's universe, a fairly logical one, even.  Anderson leaves his post on the Citadel to fill a role he believes more suited to his skillset.

Very well said. I don't see this as a case of Bioware just throwing out the decision we made. Sure, some of us made the decision in ME1 to put Anderson as councilor and now that's no longer the case. I like that this happened actually. Shows what kind of character Anderson is. For those of us who put him as councilor, he just stepped down from a position of immense power because he thought he was better suited somewhere else. I think this was used more as a story element then just "well forget everyone who put Anderson as councilor, Udina is our guy!"

[Spectre_907]

gadna13 wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

This change doesn't even alter the established continuity.  It is not a retroactive change.  It is an evolution of the game's universe, a fairly logical one, even.  Anderson leaves his post on the Citadel to fill a role he believes more suited to his skillset.

Very well said. I don't see this as a case of Bioware just throwing out the decision we made. Sure, some of us made the decision in ME1 to put Anderson as councilor and now that's no longer the case. I like that this happened actually. Shows what kind of character Anderson is. For those of us who put him as councilor, he just stepped down from a position of immense power because he thought he was better suited somewhere else. I think this was used more as a story element then just "well forget everyone who put Anderson as councilor, Udina is our guy!"

Actually Drew Karpyshyn said that Anderson could not have stepped down if he was councilor. Udina must be the councilor if Retribution is to occur. Go here.

Either the events of Retribution do not exist if Anderson is made councilor or Udina as councilor has to be forced as canon. I'm thinking that the former is the route that is going to be taken with imports into ME3.

Modifié par Spectre_907, 28 octobre 2010 - 03:02 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

The idea that Anderson simply cannot walk away from being a member of the Council is... odd, to say the least.



Of course he can quit. He leaves the station and sends a letter saying "I'm done, get over it." What are they going to do, send Spectres to hunt him down and drag him back to the chambers and force him to be a member?

[Spectre_907]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The idea that Anderson simply cannot walk away from being a member of the Council is... odd, to say the least.

Of course he can quit. He leaves the station and sends a letter saying "I'm done, get over it." What are they going to do, send Spectres to hunt him down and drag him back to the chambers and force him to be a member?

I find it odd as well. Yet there it is.

But with the massive amount of responsibility that comes with being part of a power elite whose decisions effect the lives of billions, I doubt it's as easy as simply writing a letter to your colleagues saying, "I quit. Go screw yourselves." And defying the Council does seem to come with certain...repercussions.

Modifié par Spectre_907, 28 octobre 2010 - 03:39 .

[RiouHotaru]

Spectre_907 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The idea that Anderson simply cannot walk away from being a member of the Council is... odd, to say the least.

Of course he can quit. He leaves the station and sends a letter saying "I'm done, get over it." What are they going to do, send Spectres to hunt him down and drag him back to the chambers and force him to be a member?

I find it odd as well. Yet there it is.

But with the massive amount of responsibility that comes with being part of a power elite whose decisions effect the lives of billions, I doubt it's as easy as simply writing a letter to your colleagues saying, "I quit. Go screw yourselves." And defying the Council does seem to come with certain...repercussions.

So...this means that portions of Retribution aren't canon?  It does seem like Retribution and Inquisition imply a Renegade Canon (Council killed, now run completely by humans; Udina made Councilor) because then the events of the comic make a LOT more sense.  C-Sec is mostly turian run, so if the Council was made up of entirely humans, Udina actions make a LOT more sense.

[Spectre_907]

RiouHotaru wrote...

So...this means that portions of Retribution aren't canon?  It does seem like Retribution and Inquisition imply a Renegade Canon (Council killed, now run completely by humans; Udina made Councilor) because then the events of the comic make a LOT more sense.  C-Sec is mostly turian run, so if the Council was made up of entirely humans, Udina actions make a LOT more sense.

Indeed. Udina and the human council are phasing out all alien influences in CItadel politics. We can see how anti-alien and politically aggressive the all-human council is in ME2 with blaming the attacks on Freedom's Progress on dissidents from former council races and the turians being blamed for Horizon.

I wouldn't call it canon though since we do not have any connection to ME3 established so I'd say it is an either or thing. Things like Ascension and Revelation had a connection based on Tali and Anderson's dialogue. But I agree. Inquisition definitely assumes those renegade choices are canonical within that work.

Modifié par Spectre_907, 28 octobre 2010 - 05:04 .

[Big I]

Spectre_907 wrote...
Actually Drew Karpyshyn said that Anderson could not have stepped down if he was councilor. Udina must be the councilor if Retribution is to occur. Go here.

Either the events of Retribution do not exist if Anderson is made councilor or Udina as councilor has to be forced as canon. I'm thinking that the former is the route that is going to be taken with imports into ME3.

I haven't read Retribution, but unless it's completely inconceivable that it could have happened with Anderson as Councilor I imagine they will make that one element (Udina as Councilor from 2183) alterable. Otherwise you invalidate and discount a lot of playthoughs.

[Dean_the_Young]

Spectre_907 wrote...

gadna13 wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

This change doesn't even alter the established continuity.  It is not a retroactive change.  It is an evolution of the game's universe, a fairly logical one, even.  Anderson leaves his post on the Citadel to fill a role he believes more suited to his skillset.

Very well said. I don't see this as a case of Bioware just throwing out the decision we made. Sure, some of us made the decision in ME1 to put Anderson as councilor and now that's no longer the case. I like that this happened actually. Shows what kind of character Anderson is. For those of us who put him as councilor, he just stepped down from a position of immense power because he thought he was better suited somewhere else. I think this was used more as a story element then just "well forget everyone who put Anderson as councilor, Udina is our guy!"

Actually Drew Karpyshyn said that Anderson could not have stepped down if he was councilor. Udina must be the councilor if Retribution is to occur. Go here.

Either the events of Retribution do not exist if Anderson is made councilor or Udina as councilor has to be forced as canon. I'm thinking that the former is the route that is going to be taken with imports into ME3.

Or the events of Retribution are changed in a timeline where Anderson is Councilor, and we're simply given what happened in a time he isn't. Remember the line in the same reply:


But this isn't really a "ret-con", as there was no established canon in

the first place.


ME1 and ME2 have a lot of choices were different paths largely end up at the same point, even though the paths inbetween them were unquestionably different. The side material is not necessarily different: remember, Retribution makes no differentiation between letting the Council live or if you killed them. The Turians help regardless.

Maybe Retribution doesn't occur if you picked Councilor Anderson (a metagaming best reason yet to pick him). Maybe Retribution occurs with different names and roles. Until ME3 or futher word, we don't know...

...but we have no basis to assume a ret-con where there isn't one. Retribution is an expansion of the ME universe based off of one path in particular, with pieces that can be interesting to everyone. At the moment, nothing more should be read into it.


Retribution isn't a ret-con of your story. Retribution is in a timeline all of tis own.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Or the events of Retribution are changed in a timeline where Anderson is Councilor, and we're simply given what happened in a time he isn't. Remember the line in the same reply:


But this isn't really a "ret-con", as there was no established canon in

the first place.


ME1 and ME2 have a lot of choices were different paths largely end up at the same point, even though the paths inbetween them were unquestionably different. The side material is not necessarily different: remember, Retribution makes no differentiation between letting the Council live or if you killed them. The Turians help regardless.

Maybe Retribution doesn't occur if you picked Councilor Anderson (a metagaming best reason yet to pick him). Maybe Retribution occurs with different names and roles. Until ME3 or futher word, we don't know...

...but we have no basis to assume a ret-con where there isn't one. Retribution is an expansion of the ME universe based off of one path in particular, with pieces that can be interesting to everyone. At the moment, nothing more should be read into it.


Retribution isn't a ret-con of your story. Retribution is in a timeline all of tis own.

I don't think anyone is objecting to that, if it's the way this will play out.

What people are worried about is that things like choosing Anderson as Councilor will be retconned, or written around, in ME3.

[Kaiser Shepard]

So... think the new novel that's being written by that Halo guy might be the Paragon counterpart to Retribution?

[Dean_the_Young]

Except we have no reason to believe it will be. By their own admission, Retribution isn't canon, so there's no reason for it to be. It's a work that takes place assuming Shepard has made a specific choice, but that's about as canonical as the 'default Shepard canon' theory a few months back which people insisted made all their choices irrelevant.



There isn't a canon. Retribution isn't a ret-con. What is the basis of worrying?

[Dean_the_Young]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

So... think the new novel that's being written by that Halo guy might be the Paragon counterpart to Retribution?

Why would it be the Paragon counterpart?

[Killjoy Cutter]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Except we have no reason to believe it will be. By their own admission, Retribution isn't canon, so there's no reason for it to be. It's a work that takes place assuming Shepard has made a specific choice, but that's about as canonical as the 'default Shepard canon' theory a few months back which people insisted made all their choices irrelevant.

There isn't a canon. Retribution isn't a ret-con. What is the basis of worrying?

The general tendancy of corporations to screw up their products in the attempt to play to the widest possible customer base?

[Dean_the_Young]

So, what various people have sometimes done in various other situations must apply here as well.



Got it. Totally authoritative. A great and definitive basis for this concern.

[MrFob]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Except we have no reason to believe it will be. By their own admission, Retribution isn't canon, so there's no reason for it to be. It's a work that takes place assuming Shepard has made a specific choice, but that's about as canonical as the 'default Shepard canon' theory a few months back which people insisted made all their choices irrelevant.

There isn't a canon. Retribution isn't a ret-con. What is the basis of worrying?

Sorry if I missed something here but as far as I can tell, apart from one single sentence in Retribution (which I choose to ignore because this line ironically doesn't add anything to the plot of the book), every written ME work (the 3 novels and the 3 comics (Redemption, Incursion and Inquisition)) work well, regardless of he decisions Shep makes in either game. Is that correct? Are we arguing over that one particular line?

[Kaiser Shepard]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

So... think the new novel that's being written by that Halo guy might be the Paragon counterpart to Retribution?

Why would it be the Paragon counterpart?

Because we now have one post-ME2 novel that goes along with Shepard having made the more Renegade choices at the end of both games, having one set in the "opposite universe" would make some sense.

Also, it appears it now has a date:

A new, as yet untitled MASS EFFECT tie-in novel will be released September 27, 2011.

[MrFob]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Because we now have one post-ME2 novel that goes along with Shepard having made the more Renegade choices at the end of both games, having one set in the "opposite universe" would make some sense.

Why is that, the book never makes the assumption that TIM has the Collector base. It just talks about some salvaged tech. Might as well be from the wreckage after blowing it up.

[Kaiser Shepard]

MrFob wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Because we now have one post-ME2 novel that goes along with Shepard having made the more Renegade choices at the end of both games, having one set in the "opposite universe" would make some sense.

Why is that, the book never makes the assumption that TIM has the Collector base. It just talks about some salvaged tech. Might as well be from the wreckage after blowing it up.

Well, if he or she also chose Udina to become Councilor... why not?

I guess it all depends on how Walters deals with this, though: he could simply disregard what happened in Retribution in you chose Anderson (or simply alltogether, if he wishes to), but he could also have Anderson explain how he did (have to?) step down somewhere in 2185/2186.

[Dean_the_Young]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

So... think the new novel that's being written by that Halo guy might be the Paragon counterpart to Retribution?

Why would it be the Paragon counterpart?

Because we now have one post-ME2 novel that goes along with Shepard having made the more Renegade choices at the end of both games, having one set in the "opposite universe" would make some sense.

Also, it appears it now has a date:

A new, as yet untitled MASS EFFECT tie-in novel will be released September 27, 2011.

The only 'Renegade' choice implied, to my knowledge, is picking Udina. Which was hardly outright Renegade in and of itself.

The Collector Base decision was left open. The Council decision was left open. The Rachni/Geth/Genophage/Virmire decisions were left open.

[MrFob]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

MrFob wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Because we now have one post-ME2 novel that goes along with Shepard having made the more Renegade choices at the end of both games, having one set in the "opposite universe" would make some sense.

Why is that, the book never makes the assumption that TIM has the Collector base. It just talks about some salvaged tech. Might as well be from the wreckage after blowing it up.

Well, if he or she also chose Udina to become Councilor... why not?

I guess it all depends on how Walters deals with this, though: he could simply disregard what happened in Retribution in you chose Anderson (or simply alltogether, if he wishes to), but he could also have Anderson explain how he did (have to?) step down somewhere in 2185/2186.

No, as I wrote in my earlier post, there is only one inconsistency and that is the Udina is mentioned as Councilor before Anderson goes rogue, which is mentioned in one line only. If you ignore that particular line, everything else works, no matter what Shepard chooses to o in the games. Udina will be Councilor by the end of Retribution no matter what so that matter is already set for ME3. What happened to the Collector base wil be addresses in ME3 according to your decision. Anything else would be really disappointing.

The minor issue about one line in a book, I can ignore. If BW would just put a foot down and ignore all my decisions, that would be a major problem as far as I am concerned.