288 réponses à ce sujet

[GodWood]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Ugh. Why give us the choice though? Something like that irks the mess out of me. Our choices already are reduced to cameos and emails. Was it really necessary to screw this one up too?

I'm more than willing to sacrifice a little choice - and let's face it, as they go, this one was really rather inconsequential in its effects on the game - if it means a better and more cohesive story.

Well by that logic why even have choices at all.
Might as well take out any final remains of roleplaying elements and just turn it into an action game with a story.

[The_Numerator]

Ryzaki wrote...

Frankly. I wouldn't care about it being in the comics...but I have a feeling it's going to spill over into ME3. Which would ****** me off. Now if I get ME3 and Anderson's still councilor I won't care. But if he's not...

Yet another reason to prefer DA. At least my choices aren't rendered null in a bloody comic book. <_< 

Edit: Also if you're going to be insistent about telling a story at least have the courtesy to not give the player such an option in the first place unless you're going to follow through with it. 

Yeah, sorry. I made a pretty major typo, screwed up the entire meaning of the message there.

So no time for a dramatic pause now, I'll get right to the point:

The assumption everyone seems to be making, is that "Councilor Udina" implies that Shepard recommended Udina, which implies that there is a nominal "canonical" Shepard.

But in fact, one might just as naturally adopt the view that Shepard recommended Anderson, and that this recommendation did not carry the day, and the Council decided Udina was still preferable for the job.

In either case, there is no real implication that any "choice" has been voided, or that any "canonical" Shepard exists. In short, there really isn't anything to get up in arms about.

Of course, maybe they'll be explicit about things of that sort in the future... But I don't concern myself with meaningless conjecture.

[Terror_K]

Except that in ME2 you can have either as Councilor. Either our choice has been nulled and voided, or they have to come up with an explanation involving Anderson stepping down sometime after ME2 but before this comic and Retribution. I'm hoping they at least have the sense and courtesy to do that in ME3, or even in some ME2 DLC or something, because otherwise it would be rather jarring to suddenly enter ME3 and find your so-called "choice" simply altered with no explanation. Retribution is supposed to be canon, and as the furthest piece of canon thus far in ME's history there's no way that Anderson can be Councilor any more.



The least they can do is patch it up. It's a stupid and insulting move from BioWare to just do this to us, so they owe us that at the very least. It's bad enough that most of our decisions didn't carry the weight they claimed they would, let alone nullifying one of the few that actually did.

[TheBlackBaron]

GodWood wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Ugh. Why give us the choice though? Something like that irks the mess out of me. Our choices already are reduced to cameos and emails. Was it really necessary to screw this one up too?

I'm more than willing to sacrifice a little choice - and let's face it, as they go, this one was really rather inconsequential in its effects on the game - if it means a better and more cohesive story.

Well by that logic why even have choices at all.
Might as well take out any final remains of roleplaying elements and just turn it into an action game with a story.

Did you hear that whooshing noise?

It was sound of the point going right over your head.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 26 octobre 2010 - 07:00 .

[atheelogos]

Terror_K wrote...

It's bad enough that most of our decisions didn't carry the weight they claimed they would, let alone nullifying one of the few that actually did.

So you think all of our decisions should stand no matter what? Outside influence doesn't factor in at all? If you want that then I have to say its just bad story telling imho

[Ryzaki]

The_Numerator wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Frankly. I wouldn't care about it being in the comics...but I have a feeling it's going to spill over into ME3. Which would ****** me off. Now if I get ME3 and Anderson's still councilor I won't care. But if he's not...

Yet another reason to prefer DA. At least my choices aren't rendered null in a bloody comic book. <_< 

Edit: Also if you're going to be insistent about telling a story at least have the courtesy to not give the player such an option in the first place unless you're going to follow through with it. 

Yeah, sorry. I made a pretty major typo, screwed up the entire meaning of the message there.

So no time for a dramatic pause now, I'll get right to the point:

The assumption everyone seems to be making, is that "Councilor Udina" implies that Shepard recommended Udina, which implies that there is a nominal "canonical" Shepard.

But in fact, one might just as naturally adopt the view that Shepard recommended Anderson, and that this recommendation did not carry the day, and the Council decided Udina was still preferable for the job.

In either case, there is no real implication that any "choice" has been voided, or that any "canonical" Shepard exists. In short, there really isn't anything to get up in arms about.

Of course, maybe they'll be explicit about things of that sort in the future... But I don't concern myself with meaningless conjecture.

...Right because in ME2 Anderson's not councilor even though you picked him.  

The choice has been voided. The comics make no mention of Anderson stepping down. It's akin to the comics mentioning the Rachni queen being alive even though some people killed her in their games. Or even worse they use the: "That wasn't the only one111!!!" excuse. It's equally annoying. <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 octobre 2010 - 07:15 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

I hope to god Bioware at least explain why Anderson is no longer Councillor in ME3, and not just assume we chose Udina in ME1. God that'd be one hell of an immersion breaker, and one hell of a game breaker imo.

[Valoryn]

ME is BW's story. The game we play and the choices we make is our 'alternate' story. Just because they 'play' it out one way doesn't invalidate our choices. IMHO anyway...at least til ME3 comes out

Modifié par Valoryn, 26 octobre 2010 - 07:28 .

[GodWood]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

GodWood wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Ugh. Why give us the choice though? Something like that irks the mess out of me. Our choices already are reduced to cameos and emails. Was it really necessary to screw this one up too?

I'm more than willing to sacrifice a little choice - and let's face it, as they go, this one was really rather inconsequential in its effects on the game - if it means a better and more cohesive story.

Well by that logic why even have choices at all.
Might as well take out any final remains of roleplaying elements and just turn it into an action game with a story.

Did you hear that whooshing noise?
It was sound of the point going right over your head.

Yeaahh, no.
I think you missed my point. you said 

I'm more than willing to sacrifice a little choice

then

if it means a better and more cohesive story

thus I made the point why bother having choices if all that matters is having a better and more cohesive story.
Surely I don't need to spell it out more.

[Christmas Ape]

GodWood wrote...
Yeaahh, no.
I think you missed my point. you said 

I'm more than willing to sacrifice a little choice

then

if it means a better and more cohesive story

thus I made the point why bother having choices if all that matters is having a better and more cohesive story.
Surely I don't need to spell it out more.

Well, you could say something relevant.
He said a little choice. You said any choice at all. There's a term for your point, and it's not flattering.

[GodWood]

**** it was an off the cuff remark based on what he said.

Chill out.

[TheBlackBaron]

Well...****. Christmas Ape kind of ninja'd me there, what with his embedded link-fu.

[Christmas Ape]

GodWood wrote...

**** it was an off the cuff remark based on what he said.
Chill out.

Who's not chill?
I suspect it's only off the cuff because it got caught out as spurious, but let's just let it go for the sake of the forum.

[Phaedon]

I bet that the new Executor will be a human.



Damnit, Udina.

[Phaedon]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I hope to god Bioware at least explain why Anderson is no longer Councillor in ME3, and not just assume we chose Udina in ME1. God that'd be one hell of an immersion breaker, and one hell of a game breaker imo.

Immersion breaker ? Yes. Game breaker ? No.

Anderson resigned in one of the books anyway.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Phaedon wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I hope to god Bioware at least explain why Anderson is no longer Councillor in ME3, and not just assume we chose Udina in ME1. God that'd be one hell of an immersion breaker, and one hell of a game breaker imo.

Immersion breaker ? Yes. Game breaker ? No.

Anderson resigned in one of the books anyway.

Well shepard's not in the books. There needs to be an explanation to shepard on why Anderson is no longer Councillor. If that isn't explained, IMO, it will hinder the experience a lot.

[kraidy1117]

Terror_K wrote...

Except that in ME2 you can have either as Councilor. Either our choice has been nulled and voided, or they have to come up with an explanation involving Anderson stepping down sometime after ME2 but before this comic and Retribution. I'm hoping they at least have the sense and courtesy to do that in ME3, or even in some ME2 DLC or something, because otherwise it would be rather jarring to suddenly enter ME3 and find your so-called "choice" simply altered with no explanation. Retribution is supposed to be canon, and as the furthest piece of canon thus far in ME's history there's no way that Anderson can be Councilor any more.

The least they can do is patch it up. It's a stupid and insulting move from BioWare to just do this to us, so they owe us that at the very least. It's bad enough that most of our decisions didn't carry the weight they claimed they would, let alone nullifying one of the few that actually did.

This! We know gonig into ME3 that Anderson no lnoer works on politics, but we need to know why before the events of Retribution why Anderson is no lnoger councilor(sp) when oyu picked him. If BW can explain it in a mini comic or something, then I would be happy, but right now this is complete and utter bs.

[Hyper_gateway]

In short, Bioware should come out and fill up the 'gap' asap, we understand the story have to canon somehow but only with an explanation.



Just make it right and less 'surprising news' like this comic. Everyone will feel fine with it if you do it IN ORDER.



By the way, like someone said earlier in this thread, I'm going to make Udina's life as miserable as it can be. If he turns out to be an agent from Cerberus, it's going to be fun. <evil grins>

[RiouHotaru]

So...do we assume Pallin is dead?

[Burdokva]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ugh. Why give us the choice though? Something like that irks the mess out of me. Our choices already are reduced to cameos and emails. Was it really necessary to screw this one up too?

I'm more than willing to sacrifice a little choice - and let's face it, as they go, this one was really rather inconsequential in its effects on the game - if it means a better and more cohesive story.

Oh, yes, absolutely "inconsequential", the ecision who will be the human representative of amongst the galactic government of four people. I say slap some random Joe as president of the USA or the prime minister of China, it doesn't matter all who has political power, at all... 

Seriously, if there's something that's bothering me even more is that BioWare is seriously determined to make Udina a "bad guy". Military man Anderson - good; professional diplomat Udina - bad... I say we all go grab some weapons and start killing each other, diplomacy is apparently the working field of evil sociopaths who shouldn't be trusted. 

[kraidy1117]

Burdokva wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ugh. Why give us the choice though? Something like that irks the mess out of me. Our choices already are reduced to cameos and emails. Was it really necessary to screw this one up too?

I'm more than willing to sacrifice a little choice - and let's face it, as they go, this one was really rather inconsequential in its effects on the game - if it means a better and more cohesive story.

Oh, yes, absolutely "inconsequential", the ecision who will be the human representative of amongst the galactic government of four people. I say slap some random Joe as president of the USA or the prime minister of China, it doesn't matter all who has political power, at all... 

Seriously, if there's something that's bothering me even more is that BioWare is seriously determined to make Udina a "bad guy". Military man Anderson - good; professional diplomat Udina - bad... I say we all go grab some weapons and start killing each other, diplomacy is apparently the working field of evil sociopaths who shouldn't be trusted. 

Well except the asari couniclor(sp) she is prety nice and at least reasonable.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 26 octobre 2010 - 10:22 .

[doagrl]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Except that in ME2 you can have either as Councilor. Either our choice has been nulled and voided, or they have to come up with an explanation involving Anderson stepping down sometime after ME2 but before this comic and Retribution. I'm hoping they at least have the sense and courtesy to do that in ME3, or even in some ME2 DLC or something, because otherwise it would be rather jarring to suddenly enter ME3 and find your so-called "choice" simply altered with no explanation. Retribution is supposed to be canon, and as the furthest piece of canon thus far in ME's history there's no way that Anderson can be Councilor any more.

The least they can do is patch it up. It's a stupid and insulting move from BioWare to just do this to us, so they owe us that at the very least. It's bad enough that most of our decisions didn't carry the weight they claimed they would, let alone nullifying one of the few that actually did.

This! We know gonig into ME3 that Anderson no lnoer works on politics, but we need to know why before the events of Retribution why Anderson is no lnoger councilor(sp) when oyu picked him. If BW can explain it in a mini comic or something, then I would be happy, but right now this is complete and utter bs.

I understand what you're saying and I agree to a certain extent but one thing I don't agree with is that major changes are being made to the ME Universe in supplemental material instead of in the games.

Most ME players don't read the novels or the comics and they don't buy DLC. Big changes like this and the Liara/Shadow Broker takeover should be carried out in game only.

If they want Udina to be the human Councilor then fine they should explain that in the game (well actually they shouldn't have given us a choice in the first place since obviously they had no intention of sticking with our choice for the long haul) but don't stick that kind of stuff in a comic and start up ME 3 as if it's always been that way.

[piemanz]

I think they did a decent job of being very sketchy about both andersons role and udinas role in retribution.I think it's fairly obvious going forward given the fact that anderson clearly hates his new post if you chose him as councilor in ME2, and the fact he resigns altogether in retribution, means udina will defiantly be the default Councilor in ME3.

I dont have a problem with it too much because no matter what you chose to do in your game, if anderson is not happy then it's his choice.Much like in real life, just because you want someone to do something does not mean they will do it, ultimately it's their choice.

The only thing i'm not overly happy about is having the story told in 3 diffrent formats, it's getting kind of annoying.

Modifié par piemanz, 26 octobre 2010 - 10:25 .

[kraidy1117]

doagrl wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Except that in ME2 you can have either as Councilor. Either our choice has been nulled and voided, or they have to come up with an explanation involving Anderson stepping down sometime after ME2 but before this comic and Retribution. I'm hoping they at least have the sense and courtesy to do that in ME3, or even in some ME2 DLC or something, because otherwise it would be rather jarring to suddenly enter ME3 and find your so-called "choice" simply altered with no explanation. Retribution is supposed to be canon, and as the furthest piece of canon thus far in ME's history there's no way that Anderson can be Councilor any more.

The least they can do is patch it up. It's a stupid and insulting move from BioWare to just do this to us, so they owe us that at the very least. It's bad enough that most of our decisions didn't carry the weight they claimed they would, let alone nullifying one of the few that actually did.

This! We know gonig into ME3 that Anderson no lnoer works on politics, but we need to know why before the events of Retribution why Anderson is no lnoger councilor(sp) when oyu picked him. If BW can explain it in a mini comic or something, then I would be happy, but right now this is complete and utter bs.

I understand what you're saying and I agree to a certain extent but one thing I don't agree with is that major changes are being made to the ME Universe in supplemental material instead of in the games.

Most ME players don't read the novels or the comics and they don't buy DLC. Big changes like this and the Liara/Shadow Broker takeover should be carried out in game only.

If they want Udina to be the human Councilor then fine they should explain that in the game (well actually they shouldn't have given us a choice in the first place since obviously they had no intention of sticking with our choice for the long haul) but don't stick that kind of stuff in a comic and start up ME 3 as if it's always been that way.

They have no choice Retribution was not a side story, too much happen, Anderson no longer being a councilor will happen because stories between ME2 and ME3 show this, our choices mean nothing. Just look at LotSB. Liara will always become the SB, no choices, thus Bioware can easly write it in, liara is the SB no matter if you played it or not.