288 réponses à ce sujet

[RiouHotaru]

I agree, it makes the decision of picking the Councilor appear utterly meaningless if Udina winds up in the position for nothing. And unless SOME part of this makes it into ME3 or DLC, how does this tie into our story?



And why the bloody %&*^ did they kill Pallin like that?! (Assuming he's dead) He was fairly important to Retribution, and now they just off him in an 8-page comic instead of shelving him or retiring him. Honestly, he was one of my favorites... If something isn't done... >:|

[kraidy1117]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I agree, it makes the decision of picking the Councilor appear utterly meaningless if Udina winds up in the position for nothing. And unless SOME part of this makes it into ME3 or DLC, how does this tie into our story?

And why the bloody %&*^ did they kill Pallin like that?! (Assuming he's dead) He was fairly important to Retribution, and now they just off him in an 8-page comic instead of shelving him or retiring him. Honestly, he was one of my favorites... If something isn't done... >:|

Setting up Baily as an important character.

[Asheer_Khan]

I won't be surprised at all when in ME 3 will turn out that original Council have "fatal accident" during one of the DA trips and Udina (who conviniently was not present during that trip) sized entire control over new Council...

Walters already proved that to turn this series in another "glory for humanity" bull**** so common in SF universe he is ready to ****** off large part of fanbase...



On the other hand... i no longer care if Udina is Councilor or not... as long as he will stay out of my Shepard's way.

[RiouHotaru]

kraidy1117 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

I agree, it makes the decision of picking the Councilor appear utterly meaningless if Udina winds up in the position for nothing. And unless SOME part of this makes it into ME3 or DLC, how does this tie into our story?

And why the bloody %&*^ did they kill Pallin like that?! (Assuming he's dead) He was fairly important to Retribution, and now they just off him in an 8-page comic instead of shelving him or retiring him. Honestly, he was one of my favorites... If something isn't done... >:|

Setting up Baily as an important character.

If they wanted to do that, I'd think there were easier ways.

[piemanz]

Asheer_Khan wrote...
Walters already proved that to turn this series in another "glory for humanity" bull**** so common in SF universe he is ready to ****** off large part of fanbase...

So you think having Udina as the human councilor,with his possible cerberus connections and one of the most disliked characters in the series. And baily as head of Csec,who we know from ME2 is easily corruptable, is somehow "glory for humanity"?.

Modifié par piemanz, 26 octobre 2010 - 10:48 .

[doagrl]

kraidy1117 wrote...

doagrl wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Except that in ME2 you can have either as Councilor. Either our choice has been nulled and voided, or they have to come up with an explanation involving Anderson stepping down sometime after ME2 but before this comic and Retribution. I'm hoping they at least have the sense and courtesy to do that in ME3, or even in some ME2 DLC or something, because otherwise it would be rather jarring to suddenly enter ME3 and find your so-called "choice" simply altered with no explanation. Retribution is supposed to be canon, and as the furthest piece of canon thus far in ME's history there's no way that Anderson can be Councilor any more.

The least they can do is patch it up. It's a stupid and insulting move from BioWare to just do this to us, so they owe us that at the very least. It's bad enough that most of our decisions didn't carry the weight they claimed they would, let alone nullifying one of the few that actually did.

This! We know gonig into ME3 that Anderson no lnoer works on politics, but we need to know why before the events of Retribution why Anderson is no lnoger councilor(sp) when oyu picked him. If BW can explain it in a mini comic or something, then I would be happy, but right now this is complete and utter bs.

I understand what you're saying and I agree to a certain extent but one thing I don't agree with is that major changes are being made to the ME Universe in supplemental material instead of in the games.

Most ME players don't read the novels or the comics and they don't buy DLC. Big changes like this and the Liara/Shadow Broker takeover should be carried out in game only.

If they want Udina to be the human Councilor then fine they should explain that in the game (well actually they shouldn't have given us a choice in the first place since obviously they had no intention of sticking with our choice for the long haul) but don't stick that kind of stuff in a comic and start up ME 3 as if it's always been that way.

They have no choice Retribution was not a side story, too much happen, Anderson no longer being a councilor will happen because stories between ME2 and ME3 show this, our choices mean nothing. Just look at LotSB. Liara will always become the SB, no choices, thus Bioware can easly write it in, liara is the SB no matter if you played it or not.

And that's the problem that I'm having with Bioware at the moment. If you want to override my choices or make big changes to main characters fine but do it in the game; they need to stop telling this story in three different formats. So far we are getting a little bit in the games, a little bit in the novels/comics and now a little bit in the DLCs and that's not the right way to tell a cohesive story to the fanbase.

I read the novels but I typically don't read the comics because I find that Mac Walters is a terrible writer/plotter and try to stay away from the stuff he puts out. So that means that anything story related that's thrown into a comic I (& everyone else who doesn't read the comics) will miss. I bought the Lair DLC because I love Liara but I may or may not play the other so-called bridging DLCs depending on who they feature so any story related material in them I won't get.

There was no reason that they couldn't have had Lair in the main game (either ME 2 or ME 3). And no reason not to have Anderson tell Shepard "Hey, I'm sick of this political bs. So thanks for recommending me for this job but I think I'm going to quit and do something else for a while." when you're standing in his office.

I'm fine with them adding extra flavor to their Universe in the side material but they shouldn't be introducing major universe changing events in the novels, books or DLCs because not all of the people who play the game gets that extra stuff.

Modifié par doagrl, 26 octobre 2010 - 11:02 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Ooh, looks like they already uploaded the new pages, but they didn't update the online comic viewer yet.



Damn, Pallin can really be a bad-ass when he gets the chance to be. Also didn't expect Captain Bailey to be a tech-user, though it's nice to be surprised every once in a while.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Now imagine if we go into ME3 with Anderson as our current Councilor, only to find out otherwise, with no explanation whatsoever. Worse yet, imagine if Anderson is still Councilor in ME3! I don't know what to believe anymore. I just hope they fix this in future ME2 content or something. Literally, a single line of words would fix the whole issue.

[Asheer_Khan]

piemanz wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...
Walters already proved that to turn this series in another "glory for humanity" bull**** so common in SF universe he is ready to ****** off large part of fanbase...

So you think having Udina as the human councilor,with his possible cerberus connections and one of the most disliked characters in the series. And baily as head of Csec,who we know from ME2 is easily corruptable, is somehow "glory for humanity"?.

Honestly i am no longer sure about anything...

[piemanz]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

piemanz wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...
Walters already proved that to turn this series in another "glory for humanity" bull**** so common in SF universe he is ready to ****** off large part of fanbase...

So you think having Udina as the human councilor,with his possible cerberus connections and one of the most disliked characters in the series. And baily as head of Csec,who we know from ME2 is easily corruptable, is somehow "glory for humanity"?.

Honestly i am no longer sure about anything...

I guess it depends on whether you play paragon or renegade.The rengade options always seem pro human but for paragons it really looks like swinging towards all the races united vs the reapers.

Modifié par piemanz, 26 octobre 2010 - 12:10 .

[Merchant2006]

DarthCaine wrote...

Anderson quit his job in Retribution. Udina is councilor after Retribution no matter what

THIS!!!

So irrespective of whether he was or was not Councillor in ME2, he will leave anyhow. I think it makes sense.

[TMA LIVE]

DarthCaine wrote...

Anderson quit his job in Retribution. Udina is councilor after Retribution no matter what

No, Anderson quit his job as adviser and Admiral. Aria already knew Udina was the Councilor before Anderson quit.

My best guess, before Retribution, and within the year after ME2, Cerberus or someone pulled some strings and had Anderson removed from being Councilor against his will, because they wanted Udina to be the Councilor. Anderson isn't the type to comprise his principles for humanity, while Udina is.

And that same person got Pallin set up, allowing Bailey to take over.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 26 octobre 2010 - 12:41 .

[AndroLeonidas]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Except that in ME2 you can have either as Councilor. Either our choice has been nulled and voided, or they have to come up with an explanation involving Anderson stepping down sometime after ME2 but before this comic and Retribution. I'm hoping they at least have the sense and courtesy to do that in ME3, or even in some ME2 DLC or something, because otherwise it would be rather jarring to suddenly enter ME3 and find your so-called "choice" simply altered with no explanation. Retribution is supposed to be canon, and as the furthest piece of canon thus far in ME's history there's no way that Anderson can be Councilor any more.

The least they can do is patch it up. It's a stupid and insulting move from BioWare to just do this to us, so they owe us that at the very least. It's bad enough that most of our decisions didn't carry the weight they claimed they would, let alone nullifying one of the few that actually did.

This! We know gonig into ME3 that Anderson no lnoer works on politics, but we need to know why before the events of Retribution why Anderson is no lnoger councilor(sp) when oyu picked him. If BW can explain it in a mini comic or something, then I would be happy, but right now this is complete and utter bs.

I think what he says in Retribution explains why he is no longer Councilor. You catch a little of it in ME2, which is the first sign, and then in Retribution he is an Admiral and no longer Councilor. He obviously got fed up with all the game playing the Council was doing concerning Shepard and the Reapers. He states as much in Retribution. I have no problems with his decision to return to military life and I bet Hackett had a role in convincing him to remain as Alliance military Liasion.

My issue comes in regards to Pallin. Is he Executor... is he dead? He wasn't the one who helped in Retribution... that was the Turian Ambassador. I'm very confused about him. Making a comic in regards to Bailey makes no sense to me. He was a minor player in ME2. Why thrust him into the spotlight when they could use comics to tie up Ash/Kaiden. Unless they plan on bailey playing a major role in ME3 since he worked with and knows Shepard from ME2. Does the comic reveal his thoughts on the Reapers? Unless he either believes they are real, unlike Udina and just about everyone else, or he is a human Cerberus plant, then this comic makes no sense. At least to me. And I'm pretty sure the data files at the end of LotSB state he is a prime recruit possibility.

Who knows. To me... I won't buy this as I did with Redemption... so I'll have to buck up and accept this even though things are very confusing now.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

MatronAdena wrote...

when you read the whole thing, it's alittle different outcome, I dont think it's Pallin who's dirty

why can't they give this pallin another name?

why not spelled as paulin?

[Nozybidaj]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ugh. Why give us the choice though? Something like that irks the mess out of me. Our choices already are reduced to cameos and emails. Was it really necessary to screw this one up too?

/shrug  Can't really say I'm surprised at this point.  That was really one of the few choices we made in ME1 that actually had some small amount of impact.  I imagine by the time ME3 roles around ME1 will be made a completely pointless introduction to the new series.

[CalJones]

Is this an official comic? Because if so, it goes against canon. One of the dialogue branches you get from the CSEC turian when you enter the Citadel (if you visit Anderson first) has him saying that Chellick is executor now, because Pallin was killed in the geth attack.

[Christmas Ape]

CalJones wrote...
Is this an official comic? Because if so, it goes against canon. One of the dialogue branches you get from the CSEC turian when you enter the Citadel (if you visit Anderson first) has him saying that Chellick is executor now, because Pallin was killed in the geth attack.

It is, after all, impossible that there was some kind of cover-up to facilitate the smooth functioning of C-Sec in the wake of the Battle of the Citadel. The turian at the checkpoint is of course an omniscient narrator, rather than just another character who may at times be unreliable.

[Kaiser Shepard]

From a metagaming perspective, all choosing Anderson amounts to is another chance at becoming a Spectre.

Can't say that all too bad compared to what they did with Origins' endgame choices, though.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 31 octobre 2010 - 02:32 .

[DarthCaine]

CalJones wrote...

Is this an official comic? Because if so, it goes against canon. One of the dialogue branches you get from the CSEC turian when you enter the Citadel (if you visit Anderson first) has him saying that Chellick is executor now, because Pallin was killed in the geth attack.

What? No. That was just cut dialogue from one of the videos one of the forumites posted. It never happens ingame.

Pallin is alive in Retribution

[CalJones]

Ah, OK. That makes sense.

[Terror_K]

atheelogos wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

It's bad enough that most of our decisions didn't carry the weight they claimed they would, let alone nullifying one of the few that actually did.

So you think all of our decisions should stand no matter what? Outside influence doesn't factor in at all? If you want that then I have to say its just bad story telling imho

No. I don't mind circumstances shifting and changing through material external to that of the game, but there's a difference between changing circumstances and a complete retcon of the thing. As it stands there's no current explanation to help tie in these changes for those who have conflicting choices, which is bad, IMO. I don't mind non-game material coming along and having events transpire that change things through natural events, but saying events didn't happen at all and that our versions are wrong is bad form.

One has to look at two factors here: 1) That the Mass Effect trilogy was supposed to be all about choices and consequences and crafting our own versions of Commander Shepard's story via these, and 2) that all supplementary material was supposed to not interfere with the in-game decisions we can make by purposefully remaining neutral to fit in with anybody's playthrough. That's why the novels and comics never directly feature Shepard and skirt around any factors that could change. But this Udina thing is an exception, and an annoying one at that.

The solution has to be in-game in some way too. Creating another comic or something to explain will only cause the same problem from the other side: those that actually chose Udina will be annoyed that their initial choice was meaningless because then it would set the canon to be Anderson as Councilor first and then Udina only as his replacement, with conflicts with their canon. The games are the only way one can create fluid canon, because they're the only medium that can give players choice. Anything in the supplimentary material is set in stone, and when it interferes too much it goes against the very point and spirit of the material, both with the games and that which is supposed to support it. Your support material doesn't hold things up to well when its riddled with cracks.

Also, while the novels are generally pretty good, these comics seem to be having characterisation issues. Liara fell victim to this in Redemption, and now it seems Pallin is suffering a similar fate of awful OOC'ness here... unless the whole thing really was some kind of set-up on Udina's part, in which case we either have Udina being more evil than he was made out to be (he was always a jerk, but never came across as being totally insidious.). It makes me less keen to get the second proper series focussing on TIM now.

I don't think every decision of how things unfold needs to be in the players hands or be determined by Shepard, but when BioWare does give us a decision, they shouldn't just hoist it away from us entirely and "retcon" things. They've made their bed and they should lie in it, but instead they're trying to remake it slightly different to make it more comfy for them, but less for us.

[TMA LIVE]

CalJones wrote...

Is this an official comic? Because if so, it goes against canon. One of the dialogue branches you get from the CSEC turian when you enter the Citadel (if you visit Anderson first) has him saying that Chellick is executor now, because Pallin was killed in the geth attack.

That's a cut line on the disc. It's not in the finished game, which makes it not canon.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Valoryn wrote...

ME is BW's story. The game we play and the choices we make is our 'alternate' story. Just because they 'play' it out one way doesn't invalidate our choices. IMHO anyway...at least til ME3 comes out

Or they could not waste their time and effort on crappy, halfarse outside media (books, comics, etc) and thus not have to deal with game choices vs "canon" events. 

[TMA LIVE]

I think they just think they story they're currently writing in ME3 would be better if Udina was the councilor. Or story elements require it, because Anderson wouldn't allow it. If they made that choice because of story, I'll accept it, as long as they explain how Anderson is no longer the Councilor.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 26 octobre 2010 - 01:47 .

[Zulu_DFA]

TMA LIVE wrote...
 how Anderson is no longer the Councilor.

Between your Shepard's visiting him in ME2 and the events of Retribution, Anderson's term of office ended.