288 réponses à ce sujet

[Giggles_Manically]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
 how Anderson is no longer the Councilor.

Between your Shepard's visiting him in ME2 and the events of Retribution, Anderson's term of office ended.

And now Udina gets to deal with a REAL political Sh!t-Storm.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Am I the only one who think that having Anderson stepping down and putting Udina on the council is Bioware's way for setting up the "Shepard is declared rogue" for ME3?

[Killjoy Cutter]

Merchant2006 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Anderson quit his job in Retribution. Udina is councilor after Retribution no matter what

THIS!!!

So irrespective of whether he was or was not Councillor in ME2, he will leave anyhow. I think it makes sense.

That would make more sense... sometime post-ME2, Anderson leaves or is removed from the position, allowing a starting point for the outside-media material that's fixed.  

Still don't like outside media that touches the main storyline in any way, but at least that wouldn't give the finger to anyone who chose Anderson.

[Terror_K]

TMA LIVE wrote...

CalJones wrote...

Is this an official comic? Because if so, it goes against canon. One of the dialogue branches you get from the CSEC turian when you enter the Citadel (if you visit Anderson first) has him saying that Chellick is executor now, because Pallin was killed in the geth attack.

That's a cut line on the disc. It's not in the finished game, which makes it not canon.

Yet doesn't Emily Wong refer to Chellick as being "Executor Chellick" in a news report on The Citadel?

Beyond this, I thought BioWare apparently had all the major factors of the entire trilogy planned out. If that was the case, why didn't they simply not bother fixing the fact that the decision never imported and had Udina as as Councilor in ME2 no matter what in the first place? After all, the choice you made at the end of ME1 was merely Shepard putting forth a recommendation. They got to the trouble of fixing the fact it didn't import by giving us the extra dialogue choice to let us choose, and now they decide to simply take it away again.

Modifié par Terror_K, 26 octobre 2010 - 02:12 .

[Nozybidaj]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
 how Anderson is no longer the Councilor.

Between your Shepard's visiting him in ME2 and the events of Retribution, Anderson's term of office ended.

Ah, so they aren't just retcon'ing our choices, they are retcon'ing our choices off screen.  Nice.....

[Christmas Ape]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
 how Anderson is no longer the Councilor.

Between your Shepard's visiting him in ME2 and the events of Retribution, Anderson's term of office ended.

Ah, so they aren't just retcon'ing our choices, they are retcon'ing our choices off screen.  Nice.....

This word you keep using; I do not think it means what you think it means.

When a change occurs because the timeline advances - if you can point to a given time and say "Before this X, after this Y" - it is not retroactive continuity. It is simply story progression.

[Terror_K]

Christmas Ape wrote...

When a change occurs because the timeline advances - if you can point to a given time and say "Before this X, after this Y" - it is not retroactive continuity. It is simply story progression.

Yes, but for that to be the case an explanation would need to be given in story to cover these bases. As it stands, all it's done is make Udina the Councilor without any explanation available to cover the canon of Anderson having the position. Until they can offer some kind of explanation to those players, then it stands as being a retcon. As of now, there is nothing that suggests Anderson could have stepped down or ended his term or got replaced, etc. it's all just speculation from fans trying to find a logical reasoning for it all.

[Christmas Ape]

Terror_K wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...
When a change occurs because the timeline advances - if you can point to a given time and say "Before this X, after this Y" - it is not retroactive continuity. It is simply story progression.

Yes, but for that to be the case an explanation would need to be given in story to cover these bases. As it stands, all it's done is make Udina the Councilor without any explanation available to cover the canon of Anderson having the position. Until they can offer some kind of explanation to those players, then it stands as being a retcon. As of now, there is nothing that suggests Anderson could have stepped down or ended his term or got replaced, etc. it's all just speculation from fans trying to find a logical reasoning for it all.

Sorry, cite? Haven't had a chance to lay my hands on the novels, so if it's explicitly stated as the case I'm certainly willing to be informed.
If you just mean a player's personal canon, I'd love to hear what would reconcile this without invalidating the personal canon of players who did choose Udina.

[Zulu_DFA]

Terror_K wrote...

Yes, but for that to be the case an explanation would need to be given in story to cover these bases. As it stands, all it's done is make Udina the Councilor without any explanation available to cover the canon of Anderson having the position. Until they can offer some kind of explanation to those players, then it stands as being a retcon. As of now, there is nothing that suggests Anderson could have stepped down or ended his term or got replaced, etc. it's all just speculation from fans trying to find a logical reasoning for it all.

If BioWare gave such an explanation in any media besides the game itself, it would canonize Anderson as First Human Councillor, which is exactly what is being criticized here.

The game hasn't reached that point of the narrative yet. So they can't give this explanation.
Wait for ME3. I'm sure Anderson will cry you a river there.

[Terror_K]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...
When a change occurs because the timeline advances - if you can point to a given time and say "Before this X, after this Y" - it is not retroactive continuity. It is simply story progression.

Yes, but for that to be the case an explanation would need to be given in story to cover these bases. As it stands, all it's done is make Udina the Councilor without any explanation available to cover the canon of Anderson having the position. Until they can offer some kind of explanation to those players, then it stands as being a retcon. As of now, there is nothing that suggests Anderson could have stepped down or ended his term or got replaced, etc. it's all just speculation from fans trying to find a logical reasoning for it all.

Sorry, cite? Haven't had a chance to lay my hands on the novels, so if it's explicitly stated as the case I'm certainly willing to be informed.
If you just mean a player's personal canon, I'd love to hear what would reconcile this without invalidating the personal canon of players who did choose Udina.

I do mean players' canon, since there can be two alternatives. But as it stands Retribution beat this comic to the punch for this error by outright stating Udina as being Councilor and Anderson being his adviser. So, as it stands, the novel (and now this comic) have overruled what was once a player choice and set once fluid canon in stone. That's why until it's explained in some manner it's a retcon and not merely story progression.

There are plenty of ways it can be explained. As others have said, Anderson was clearly unhappy in the role, so he may have stepped down sometime between ME2 and Retribution and Udina took the role. His term may have ended, or another vote may have ousted him. The issue is that thus far --as I said-- this is all speculation and possibilities created by fans trying to put some logic to the situation, and nothing has been done officially to explain this yet. And if they do it must be in-game in some way, because that's the only way fluid canon can work. You can't put it into a novel or comic too since that would --as you said-- invalidate the canon of those who did choose Udina. What BioWare need to do is either put a line or two into an ME2 DLC or into ME3 to fix it for those who need it fixed.

Modifié par Terror_K, 26 octobre 2010 - 02:30 .

[Costin_Razvan]

How is Udina a slimeball for removing a Turian that is corrupted from office?

I think I am starting to like Udina again ( I liked him in ME1, got annoyed by what he does in ME 2 though ), and after reading what Anderson did in Retribution then I regret ever placing the latter as Councilor.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 26 octobre 2010 - 02:33 .

[Terror_K]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

How is Udina a slimeball for removing a Turian that is corrupted from office?

You mean aside from the fact that Pallin would never be corrupt because he was an honest, by-the-book officer who despised corruption? <_<

[Costin_Razvan]

Terror_K wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

How is Udina a slimeball for removing a Turian that is corrupted from office?

You mean aside from the fact that Pallin would never be corrupt because he was an honest, by-the-book officer who despised corruption? <_<

How does that work when he attacks Bailey?

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 26 octobre 2010 - 02:38 .

[kraidy1117]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

How is Udina a slimeball for removing a Turian that is corrupted from office?

I think I am starting to like Udina again ( I liked him in ME1, got annoyed by what he does in ME 2 though ), and after reading what Anderson did in Retribution then I regret ever placing the latter as Councilor.

Palin was set up. It was all a ruse to get a new exutor(sp) which most likely be Baily. I advise you play ME again and talk to Palin, Garrus and some other people, they will tell you Palin hates corruption. He was a honest man who fought crimes all the way to he died. It was a set up, Udina needs to die now.

[Terror_K]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

How is Udina a slimeball for removing a Turian that is corrupted from office?

You
mean aside from the fact that Pallin would never be corrupt because he
was an honest, by-the-book officer who despised corruption? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

How does that work when he attacks Bailey?

That's either just bad writing and poor characterisation on Mac's part for the sake of convenience, or Pallin thought Bailey was one of Udina's (or whoever set him ups) goons and was doing all he could to escape the situation, not realising Bailey wasn't in as deep as the turian thought.

Also...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Palin was set up. It was all a ruse to get a new exutor(sp) which most likely be Baily. I advise you play ME again and talk to Palin, Garrus and some other people, they will tell you Palin hates corruption. He was a honest man who fought crimes all the way to he died. It was a set up, Udina needs to die now.

^ This

[Nekemekem]

The major WTF about this tripe is how poorly written it is, and I can't believe BW would even want to associate themselves with this. I had no issues with Bailey, he seemed like a decent, regular Joe Cop , doing his part for station security. I'm sure the turian founded massive security force are just gonna sit by and think this was totally a-okay too.



The artists references the wrong turian.

Pallin was completely defiled.

I believe you have already written in Chellick as Executor as indeed heard after the Garrus loyalty mission through a broadcast by Emily Wong.

I would at this point not even be surprised to see Michael Bay was involved in the writing for ME3 if this is where we're headed. Swooosh!

[FuturePasTimeCE]

when is part 2 coming out?

[kraidy1117]

Nekemekem wrote...

The major WTF about this tripe is how poorly written it is, and I can't believe BW would even want to associate themselves with this. I had no issues with Bailey, he seemed like a decent, regular Joe Cop , doing his part for station security. I'm sure the turian founded massive security force are just gonna sit by and think this was totally a-okay too.

The artists references the wrong turian.
Pallin was completely defiled.
I believe you have already written in Chellick as Executor as indeed heard after the Garrus loyalty mission through a broadcast by Emily Wong.
I would at this point not even be surprised to see Michael Bay was involved in the writing for ME3 if this is where we're headed. Swooosh!

Those files in ME2 are non canon, read retribution. Also the writting was good. It was a good little read and intresting.

[chris025657]

This comic reads like a bad fanfic. I mean:

Palin: Nobody decides my fate but me. Nobody.

Baley: Fate is a ****, executor. 

Modifié par chris025657, 26 octobre 2010 - 02:55 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Palin was set up. It was all a ruse to get a new exutor(sp) which most likely be Baily. I advise you play ME again and talk to Palin, Garrus and some other people, they will tell you Palin hates corruption. He was a honest man who fought crimes all the way to he died. It was a set up, Udina needs to die now.

No offence, but even the most "honest" men can be corrupted bastards, and again if he really was for fighting against crime, then why did he attack Bailey to try and kill him?

That's either just bad writing and poor characterisation on Mac's part for the sake of convenience, or Pallin thought Bailey was one of Udina's (or whoever set him ups) goons and was doing all he could to escape the situation, not realising Bailey wasn't in as deep as the turian thought.

Also...

Ah, so you have no real reason besides poor writing. I am done here. I always love it when people ignore facts for the sake of convenience. Even if he thought that Bailey was in as deep as he though, the the uncorrupted honest crime fighter would not attack on sight if he really was "honest".

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 26 octobre 2010 - 02:56 .

[TMA LIVE]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

How is Udina a slimeball for removing a Turian that is corrupted from office?

You mean aside from the fact that Pallin would never be corrupt because he was an honest, by-the-book officer who despised corruption? <_<

How does that work when he attacks Bailey?

If you're being setup, and Bailey's going to arrested you anyways, you know you're going to be lockup forever simply because that's why this is happening. If you don't want that to happen, you have to refuse being arrested.

[Costin_Razvan]

If you're being setup, and Bailey's going to arrested you anyways, you know you're going to be lockup forever simply because that's why this is happening. If you don't want that to happen, you have to refuse being arrested.

I ain't arguing your logic for him doing that. However I am arguing the point that Palin was an honest man who fought against corruption at every turn.



By doing what he does in the comic, he proves he was not an honest, uncorrupted person.

[kraidy1117]

chris025657 wrote...

This comic reads like a bad fanfic. I mean:

Palin: Nobody decides my fate but me. Nobody.

Baley: Fate is a ****, executor. 

At least it's beter written then Redemption

[Asheer_Khan]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

How is Udina a slimeball for removing a Turian that is corrupted from office?

You mean aside from the fact that Pallin would never be corrupt because he was an honest, by-the-book officer who despised corruption? <_<

How does that work when he attacks Bailey?

Like Bailey was clean like Eliot Ness... <_<