288 réponses à ce sujet

[TheBlackBaron]

Moiaussi wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...
A bit tacky in that it has already been done in Babylon 5, but it might at least tie the loose ends together...

Oh, please, nobody's going to care that "it's already been done". Everything in the ME universe has "already been done".

Tropes are not bad, people.

There is a difference between a trope, and a specific set of tropes and/or plot elements put together in a specific order. Next thing you will be saying that if someone re-did star wars and changed only the title and character names that there would be no copyright issues.

I wasn't aware Babylon 5 copyrighted the concept of an old government falling and somebody setting up a new one.

[Moiaussi]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

I wasn't aware Babylon 5 copyrighted the concept of an old government falling and somebody setting up a new one.

With an outside 'dark ancient race' that operates through indoctrination and infiltration that noone believes is really a threat?

[TMA LIVE]

Collider wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Collider wrote...

Honestly, if Udina becomes Councilor invariably, why give us the choice of choosing who to recommend?

Like I said, because 3 years later, they may need Udina to be the Councilor based on the story they're currently writing for ME3, and can't do whatever if Anderson is the Councilor.

Yea. I just don't like the illusion of choice though.

FFX:
My Tidus totally wanted Lulu. The player even gets to say this. Or say that they don't want Yuna, at least.
But no. It's Yuna every time.
Why give me the choice then?!!

Because Lulu is too old for you? . Also she wants Wakka. 

But anyways, they didn't write the ME series at once. They may have wrote a basic idea of what part 2 and 3 would be about, but I doubt they committed anything till now. And now, for story reasons, they may need Udina to be the Councilor.

[Collider]

TMA LIVE wrote...
Because Lulu is too old for you? . Also she wants Wakka.

Pfft
Don't give me a choice like that if it means nothing

But anyways, they didn't write the ME series at once. They may have wrote a basic idea of what part 2 and 3 would be about, but I doubt they committed anything till now. And now, for story reasons, they may need Udina to be the Councilor.

I know, but I wish they'd had better planned it

[Mr. Gogeta34]

If Udina is the Councilor now... then Bioware has done this twice so far:



1. With Udina being chosen even though you picked Anderson



and



2. With TIM using the Collector Base even though you destroyed it

[SagaciousTien]

So - I'm guessing Chellick will become Councillor now?

[Big I]

Moiaussi wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

I wasn't aware Babylon 5 copyrighted the concept of an old government falling and somebody setting up a new one.

With an outside 'dark ancient race' that operates through indoctrination and infiltration that noone believes is really a threat?

"Dark anciet race" describes the Shadows, the Dominion from DS9, the Cylons at the beginning of BSG, and the Sith, as well as other examples I can't bring to mind.

EDIT: Perhaps also the Daleks as faced by the 10th Doctor.

Modifié par LookingGlass93, 27 octobre 2010 - 01:47 .

[Moiaussi]

[quote]LookingGlass93 wrote...

With an outside 'dark ancient race' that operates through indoctrination and infiltration that noone believes is really a threat? [/quote]

"Dark anciet race" describes the Shadows, the Dominion from DS9, the Cylons at the beginning of BSG, and the Sith, as well as other examples I can't bring to mind.

EDIT: Perhaps also the Daleks as faced by the 10th Doctor.

[/quote]

The Dominion were not all that dark nor all that advanced. They are actually closer to the Krogan than the Reapers. The Cylons are much closer to the Geth, neither ancient nor dark and won mostly by betrayal than by infiltration (unless that is very different in the remake of the series). The Sith are not even a race.

The Daleks have likewise never really used infiltration. They have come close to success many times, but they are not generally 'unknown.' Also they simply 'came back.' They didn't sneak back, they simply returned.

Modifié par Moiaussi, 27 octobre 2010 - 02:00 .

[AndroLeonidas]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

If Udina is the Councilor now... then Bioware has done this twice so far:

1. With Udina being chosen even though you picked Anderson

and

2. With TIM using the Collector Base even though you destroyed it

Actually... in Retribution the Collector Base was destroyed by Shepard. TIM and Cerberus are using intelligence gathered by EDI and pieces of the base that were salvaged after.

[AndroLeonidas]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
Unless you're refering to Retribution. then yeah, Anderson screwed up.

Yes, I was referring to Retribution.

Lizardviking wrote...
"EDIT" And if you killed the council and promoted Udina, then he does undermine Shepard's plans.

I didn't kill the Council. Geth did.

And yes , I promoted Udina and was rewarded by his bitter indifference about my existence. He did not dismiss the Reapers, however (so, probably, this could count as him not doing his part and thus undermining the whole effort).

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Udina does nothing but undermine Shephard, from the point in ME1 that they lock the Normandy down onward in ME1, and in every interaction during ME2 if he's the human Councilor.

Udina did not lock down the Normandy. He could not do it because he had no authority to do it. He simply relayed the will of the Council, along with preventing you from talking yourself into more trouble, like revoking your spectrehood right there and outright impounding the Normandy.

As for "down onward", pics or it never happened!

Mars Nova wrote...
I need answers.

Here is one:

Such little thingies as Inquisition are byproducts of the core game development.

For any substantial answers you will have to wait for ME3 proper, though.

Actually... Udina IS the one who locked the NORMANDY down. As Ambassador... he had plenty of authority to do just that. No offense meant here... but how long has it been since you played the first game? When you go to see Anderson in Flux he states that you can only overide the lockdown from Udina's computer because he imposed it... or from Citadel Control.

So since the first game Udina has been hindering Shepard.

Also... you can step down from a military posting... it's called resigning. However... Retribution does not tell us with complete confirmation that Anderson has left the Alliance. He and Kahlee have taken Grayson's body to people he trusts outside the Alliance.

That to me says Shepard is going to be , or has been declared persona non grata, and since he trusts Shepard fully I have to believe he would go to him because they both believe in the Reaper threat. Don't know if Shep would trust him with the knowledge that Liara is SB just yet... but maybe. Retribution does take place several months after ME2.

[Costin_Razvan]

Udina did what the Council asked him to do: Shut Shepard the hell up and stop him from going after Saren in the Terminus Systems.

Also... you can step down from a military posting... it's called resigning. However... Retribution does not tell us with complete confirmation that Anderson has left the Alliance. He and Kahlee have taken Grayson's body to people he trusts outside the Alliance.

Even when you resign from a military posting you still can and will be called by people who knew you served ( and that care for such things ) by it.

 That to me says Shepard is going to be , or has been declared persona non grata, and since he trusts Shepard fully I have to believe he would go to him because they both believe in the Reaper threat

That's speculation in regards to Shepard getting declared unwelcome. However Anderson does not trust Shepard fully, or else he wouldn't go around ****ing the only ally besides him that I have ( Cerberus). I get it that some people hate Cerberuis with a passion, but get one thing very damned straight: Some people are PERFECTLY willing to ally and LIKE Cerberus and TIM.

The only thing that awaits Anderson from me in ME3 is a bullet to the head.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 27 octobre 2010 - 05:41 .

[MrFob]

AndroLeonidas wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

If Udina is the Councilor now... then Bioware has done this twice so far:

1. With Udina being chosen even though you picked Anderson

and

2. With TIM using the Collector Base even though you destroyed it

Actually... in Retribution the Collector Base was destroyed by Shepard. TIM and Cerberus are using intelligence gathered by EDI and pieces of the base that were salvaged after.

IIRC, It is never specified if the base was destroyed or not. It is merely said that TIM uses tech, he got in the aftermath of the events during theME2 finale. So that's fine.

I also can live with the fact that, due to the events in Retribution, Udina is councilor now, no matter what. I am disappointed though that BW again takes the easy way out here.
I can not understand however, why Drew Karpyshyn puts this completely unnecessary sentence into Retribution, that states that Udina is already councilor BEFORE Anderson goes rogue. It wasn't needed for the story, it's inly mentioned by the way and it breaks with the premise that the books work, no matter your decisions in the games. I don't get it.

On topic: This was the best comic so far IMO. I didn't really like the previous ones that much (and I am not a comic fan in general) but this was entertaining and opens up some potentially interesting plot lines for ME3. Bailey is a nice character and I hope we see more of him in the future.

[Zulu_DFA]

AndroLeonidas wrote...

Actually... Udina IS the one who locked the NORMANDY down. As Ambassador... he had plenty of authority to do just that. No offense meant here...

Actually, Udina DID NOT lock down the Normandy. He had no authority to do so. The Normandy was under the Council's jurisdiction at the time, and Udina was an ambassador for a non-Council state. That's it, simple as that.

If it were Udina, the Council (especially the Turian Councillor) should have immediately taken offence and expel Udina for blatantly overstepping his authority. If the Council was undergoing one of its severe attack of moronity, Shepard could have cried them a little stream and get the Normandy back. But it was the Council who said "NO GO".

AndroLeonidas wrote...
but how long has it been since you played the first game?

Unless there was a patch, that retconned the story, I'm positive my recollection and interpretation of the "lockdown" issue is 100% correct.

AndroLeonidas wrote...
When you go to see Anderson in Flux he states that you can only overide the lockdown from Udina's computer because he imposed it... or from Citadel Control.

That's because Udina co-operated with the Council. If he tried to side with you, the Council could impound the Normandy, and transfer her to another hangar, revoke your spectre status, and Udina's diplomatic status.

The "backstabbing" is about Udina's siding with the Council on this one. Although it's not a backstabbing, but rather taking away a loaded gun from a drunken man, who is about to play Russian Roulette on himself. With magasine pistol.

AndroLeonidas wrote...
So since the first game Udina has been hindering Shepard.

Like when? Aside from the "lockdown" issue, of course. I'm far from thinking I can persuade you about it, but you seem to imply that you have something else about Udina's hindering Shepard. But, in fact, you don't have anything.

AndroLeonidas wrote...
Also... you can step down from a military posting... it's called resigning.

No you can't. You can just submit a report to your superior with a request to discharge you from duty (which can be accepted or declined at your superior's discretion). Anything else is dereliction of duty, or absence without official leave, which is a criminal offence in the military.

AndroLeonidas wrote...
However... Retribution does not tell us with complete confirmation that Anderson has left the Alliance. He and Kahlee have taken Grayson's body to people he trusts outside the Alliance.

Of course, Anderson seems to have some plot armor against prosecution, but I'd be surprised if he remained in any Alliance official position in ME3, after what he did in Retribution.

AndroLeonidas wrote...
That to me says Shepard is going to be , or has been declared persona non grata, and since he trusts Shepard fully I have to believe he would go to him because they both believe in the Reaper threat. Don't know if Shep would trust him with the knowledge that Liara is SB just yet... but maybe. Retribution does take place several months after ME2.

Sure, why not. My Cerberus Loyalist Shepard will be happy to work with any traitor if it gets the job done.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 27 octobre 2010 - 07:16 .

[TheGreatD17]

My biggest problem with this comic, and I have a few, has to be the handling of Pallin. Not only was the wrong color and acting in a way that made no sense from what we know about him, but killing him off seems so superfluous and poorly thought out. There is already plenty of stuff we'll obviously need to do in ME3, but this whole political-corruption-at-the-highest-level situation seems like something that will take time to resolve and could hurt the flow of the game if they try to resolve it there. Eventually Bioware has to stop adding plots, and this one seems especially unnecessary.



That said, I would love a DLC where Shepard teams up with Pallin, who survived the gunshot and went into hiding, and a suspicious Bailey as you try to take down whoever was behind this whole scheme. Aside from potentially being one of the more unique missions in the games, the character interactions could actually turn this into a really fun story. Sadly, the potentially major ramifications and involvement of Udina and presumably Cerberus makes a DLC item highly unlikely, and this comic highly irritating.

[AndroLeonidas]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

AndroLeonidas wrote...

Actually... Udina IS the one who locked the NORMANDY down. As Ambassador... he had plenty of authority to do just that. No offense meant here...

Actually, Udina DID NOT lock down the Normandy. He had no authority to do so. The Normandy was under the Council's jurisdiction at the time, and Udina was an ambassador for a non-Council state. That's it, simple as that.

If it were Udina, the Council (especially the Turian Councillor) should have immediately taken offence and expel Udina for blatantly overstepping his authority. If the Council was undergoing one of its severe attack of moronity, Shepard could have cried them a little stream and get the Normandy back. But it was the Council who said "NO GO".

AndroLeonidas wrote...
but how long has it been since you played the first game?

Unless there was a patch, that retconned the story, I'm positive my recollection and interpretation of the "lockdown" issue is 100% correct.

AndroLeonidas wrote...
When you go to see Anderson in Flux he states that you can only overide the lockdown from Udina's computer because he imposed it... or from Citadel Control.

That's because Udina co-operated with the Council. If he tried to side with you, the Council could impound the Normandy, and transfer her to another hangar, revoke your spectre status, and Udina's diplomatic status.

The "backstabbing" is about Udina's siding with the Council on this one. Although it's not a backstabbing, but rather taking away a loaded gun from a drunken man, who is about to play Russian Roulette on himself. With magasine pistol.

AndroLeonidas wrote...
So since the first game Udina has been hindering Shepard.

Like when? Aside from the "lockdown" issue, of course. I'm far from thinking I can persuade you about it, but you seem to imply that you have something else about Udina's hindering Shepard. But, in fact, you don't have anything.

AndroLeonidas wrote...
Also... you can step down from a military posting... it's called resigning.

No you can't. You can just submit a report to your superior with a request to discharge you from duty (which can be accepted or declined at your superior's discretion). Anything else is dereliction of duty, or absence without official leave, which is a criminal offence in the military.

AndroLeonidas wrote...
However... Retribution does not tell us with complete confirmation that Anderson has left the Alliance. He and Kahlee have taken Grayson's body to people he trusts outside the Alliance.

Of course, Anderson seems to have some plot armor against prosecution, but I'd be surprised if he remained in any Alliance official position in ME3, after what he did in Retribution.

AndroLeonidas wrote...
That to me says Shepard is going to be , or has been declared persona non grata, and since he trusts Shepard fully I have to believe he would go to him because they both believe in the Reaper threat. Don't know if Shep would trust him with the knowledge that Liara is SB just yet... but maybe. Retribution does take place several months after ME2.

Sure, why not. My Cerberus Loyalist Shepard will be happy to work with any traitor if it gets the job done.

This is from Mass Effect Wiki...
After Shepard convinced the Council of Saren's imminent attack on the Citadel, Udina tried to move in and take control of the situation, wanting to keep humanity at the forefront of the battle against Saren to prove their usefulness. However, Shepard wasn't finished. The Commander tried to warn them that the Reapers were getting ready to invade and destroy the galaxy, but the Council was tired of listening to Shepard's 'dreams' about the Reapers. Udina wanted to show Shepard wasn't speaking for the Alliance, and ordered the Normandy's controls locked out, leaving Shepard and the crew grounded until further notice.
Granted Wiki's are not canon... but this is as close as we get. As Ambassador... he has all the authority to lock out the Normandy since the Normandy was on loan to the Citadel... but still an Alliance warship which means the Alliance can yank the ship from Shpeard whenever they want.

You state that the council locked down the normandy... if that is the case why give Udina access. That makes no sense no matter how you sweeten it.

So you think Shepard was a drunken man going to play russion roulette on himself? Wow... interesting. If that is what you mean?
There is quite a bit to indicate udina does not like shepard or his methods even from the very beginning of the game. That's so obvious is silly.

Most resignations in the military are done for a reason and pushed through quickly. I can see Anderson's being of similar nature. And why would they not allow Anderson to remain as Admiral? If I remember correctly, it was his choice to drop off the grid with kahlee and graysons's body. Not any official act.

[Moiaussi]

Moreover, the controls to unlock the Normandy were in Udina's office. If it was the Council locking the ship down, (1) wouldn't the controls have been in Citadel central control? and (2) Why was there no pursuit or even arrest order issued?

[Ryzaki]

Also 3. If Udina was so bloody concerned about Shepard why not unlock the codes himself? Unless he was deliberately co**blocking Shep?

[Asheer_Khan]

"This meeting would be more productive if Udina would be join us..."

A quote from very beginning of the Council meeting in ME 2... which is indirect hint made by Walters and Bioware that they are NOT pleased over fact that Anderson is Councilor.



So i ask WHY YOU GIVE US (insert undiplomatic word here) CHOICES TO BE MADE IN FIRST PLACE if you override them them behind our backs anyway and because they don't suit Mr Walters vision of Mass Effect Universe ruled by jerks like udina and tim?



Yes i am furious because now i can expect that about 90% of my ME 2 choices will fly out of the window as well (assuming that Bioware would allow transfer to ME 3 anything except outcome of C- Base mission in form of Shepard status - Alive/Dead and relation to Li (again assuming that they will respect LoTSB as well )) because some of my choices might be "not compatible" to what Walters want show in game....

[Funker Shepard]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

"This meeting would be more productive if Udina would be join us..."

A quote from very beginning of the Council meeting in ME 2... which is indirect hint made by Walters and Bioware that they are NOT pleased over fact that Anderson is Councilor.

No.

[TUHD]

Hm, the art is terrible, and the dialogue... urgh.

If BW created this, then *shrugs*

Then they'd better leave the comics to Black Horse.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Therion942 wrote...

Have You Ever Herped So Much You Derped: The Comic
There aren't enough tactical facepalms in the UNIVERSE

Might need to move up to strategic facepalms... perhaps even a Tsar Bomba*  facepalm.

* en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 27 octobre 2010 - 01:19 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

"Admiral" is a rank, not an office. You don't step down from it.

Sure you can.  It's call "resigning your commission".  Any officer who has served his obligation can resign his commission.  The resignation can be refused, but quite often it's not.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

If you're being setup, and Bailey's going to arrested you anyways, you know you're going to be lockup forever simply because that's why this is happening. If you don't want that to happen, you have to refuse being arrested.

I ain't arguing your logic for him doing that. However I am arguing the point that Palin was an honest man who fought against corruption at every turn.

By doing what he does in the comic, he proves he was not an honest, uncorrupted person.

Sounds like another case of previous characterization being ignored because it wasn't convenient for the writer or the "story" he was trying to tell.  Happens in comic books all the time. 

[PillarBiter]

personally, not a fan of the story. pallin had way more character then bailey. and the story just doesnt... fit anywhere.

[Lunatic LK47]

MrCry0 wrote...

personally, not a fan of the story. pallin had way more character then bailey. and the story just doesnt... fit anywhere.

Are you ****ing kidding me? Pallin was nothing more than "Wah wah, I hate Spectres. They always break the rules because I'm a goody two-shoes" who did nothing but sit on his ass in his office. Bailey on the other hand at least helps Shepard out while he/she is shunned by almost everyone.