Well good luck and if you change your mind, the by all means, please come on back. In a rather morbid fashion, if something should cause you to have to reformat or reinstall your OS, then that would be a really good time to try again fresh. Just in case.
Hope all the best and good luck to you.
dunniteowl
Neverdarklands update
Débuté par
Dementia5
, oct. 26 2010 12:28
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#27
Posté 30 octobre 2010 - 06:33
Shallina
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Good luck, but be carrefull, DAO feature aren't the same as NWN2, converting your work correctly will be a lot of work. You"ll need to make use of DAO strong points and develop what you couldn't do NWN2 in order to compensate what you won"t be able to do in DAO and was possible in NWN2.
Modifié par Shallina, 30 octobre 2010 - 06:33 .
#28
Posté 30 octobre 2010 - 02:01
Dementia5
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Help me out Shallina, what are the strengths and weaknesses of the Origins Toolset; for that matter, the DA setting (again I play DA on the XBox 360, but how "locked in" am I to the DA "rubric"?) I hear I can develop my own worlds, but I don't see much evidence of this.
I am willing to give this another go when I receive my new CPU (picked up a T9300 dual core 2.5 GHz for very little money, a healthy upgrade from the 1.7 GHz chip); again, I'm not sure how cycles per second would improve memory management, but it won't hurt.
But first, I need to change my avatar. Not as old as this...
I am willing to give this another go when I receive my new CPU (picked up a T9300 dual core 2.5 GHz for very little money, a healthy upgrade from the 1.7 GHz chip); again, I'm not sure how cycles per second would improve memory management, but it won't hurt.
But first, I need to change my avatar. Not as old as this...
#29
Posté 30 octobre 2010 - 05:23
Shallina
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DAO strenght.
Cutscene, you really can do what ever you want how you want, NWN2 next to DAO when it come to cutscene is really really weak. You can only do basic and standard stuff with NWN2, while with DAO the question is more what isn't possible rather than what is possible when it comes to cutscene.
Character animation and facial Expression : With DAO you can do awesomme stuff you got the full array of expression, with NWN2 you are tied to "standar animation" and a basic Lips Synch, wich is al ready really good. But the power of DAO for those matter is really impressive.
Scripting power, the 2 engine have different approach, but many common things, did not mess enought with DAO to make an accurate list of the strenght/weakness of the 2 toolsets.
creature model = DAO got awesome creature model, most of them are better than NWN2 one.
Blueprint : Environement is always "on scale with DAO, while with NWN2, sometimes you need to tricks for this.
Now the limitation :
DAO lightning is really bad and it is static. Basically you can't change an area on a whim with scripting like you can with NWN2, also you don't have a Night/day feature, "hours" inside an area doesn't go on, the time is stopped. While in NWN2 those stuff are well done.
No multiplayer in DAO ever. NWN2 you can play in LAN with friend or over the internet, nevers will you be able to do this DAO. Only single player adventure for DAO.
Custom content. DAO got almost none, while in NWN2 there is really a lot of it extending NWN2 possibility in a very impressive manner, while DAO is set with its default setting.
A really small bestiary in DAO, beceause of it is really difficult to do something that wouldn't be in Ferelden.
NWN2 got more creature.
No "scalling" in DAO, scalling is a really powerfull tool that exist in NWN2, you can alter the size of an object/creature, it's easy to make new stuff from old stuff basically using it.
Texture : tied to lightning problem. DAO hasn"t got texture as good as NWN2, you can do a lot of more with NWN2 in that area.
Race/combat system/character devellopement. NWN2 is more develloped in that matter, but DAO made a real effort to make melee character interesting.
Text size and number of answer for a convo. DAO is limited to 6 possible answer, and you got a text limitation for the size. NWN2 got no limitations for those matter.
The question now depend on what you want to do. If none of the DAO restriction next to NWN2 got an impact on your project, use DAO.
Else it would be better to use NWN2.
DAO is very specific to Ferelden setting and the way DAO the game works. NWN2 allow more freedom. If you need that freedom you have no choice than to use NWN2, if your project can be done inside DAO limitation then DAO is great.
Also DAO or NWN2 custom module can only be played on PC. You'll never be able to play your DAO module and console.
There is also a really nasty blur effect in DAO that I don't like. It was probably made to spare the console. But it's really ugly for everything that isn't close to the character.
Cutscene, you really can do what ever you want how you want, NWN2 next to DAO when it come to cutscene is really really weak. You can only do basic and standard stuff with NWN2, while with DAO the question is more what isn't possible rather than what is possible when it comes to cutscene.
Character animation and facial Expression : With DAO you can do awesomme stuff you got the full array of expression, with NWN2 you are tied to "standar animation" and a basic Lips Synch, wich is al ready really good. But the power of DAO for those matter is really impressive.
Scripting power, the 2 engine have different approach, but many common things, did not mess enought with DAO to make an accurate list of the strenght/weakness of the 2 toolsets.
creature model = DAO got awesome creature model, most of them are better than NWN2 one.
Blueprint : Environement is always "on scale with DAO, while with NWN2, sometimes you need to tricks for this.
Now the limitation :
DAO lightning is really bad and it is static. Basically you can't change an area on a whim with scripting like you can with NWN2, also you don't have a Night/day feature, "hours" inside an area doesn't go on, the time is stopped. While in NWN2 those stuff are well done.
No multiplayer in DAO ever. NWN2 you can play in LAN with friend or over the internet, nevers will you be able to do this DAO. Only single player adventure for DAO.
Custom content. DAO got almost none, while in NWN2 there is really a lot of it extending NWN2 possibility in a very impressive manner, while DAO is set with its default setting.
A really small bestiary in DAO, beceause of it is really difficult to do something that wouldn't be in Ferelden.
NWN2 got more creature.
No "scalling" in DAO, scalling is a really powerfull tool that exist in NWN2, you can alter the size of an object/creature, it's easy to make new stuff from old stuff basically using it.
Texture : tied to lightning problem. DAO hasn"t got texture as good as NWN2, you can do a lot of more with NWN2 in that area.
Race/combat system/character devellopement. NWN2 is more develloped in that matter, but DAO made a real effort to make melee character interesting.
Text size and number of answer for a convo. DAO is limited to 6 possible answer, and you got a text limitation for the size. NWN2 got no limitations for those matter.
The question now depend on what you want to do. If none of the DAO restriction next to NWN2 got an impact on your project, use DAO.
Else it would be better to use NWN2.
DAO is very specific to Ferelden setting and the way DAO the game works. NWN2 allow more freedom. If you need that freedom you have no choice than to use NWN2, if your project can be done inside DAO limitation then DAO is great.
Also DAO or NWN2 custom module can only be played on PC. You'll never be able to play your DAO module and console.
There is also a really nasty blur effect in DAO that I don't like. It was probably made to spare the console. But it's really ugly for everything that isn't close to the character.
Modifié par Shallina, 30 octobre 2010 - 05:33 .
#30
Posté 30 octobre 2010 - 11:56
Olblach
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Hmmm..... forgot the basic test: disable all plugins: Options > Security > Don't load any plugin and check if there is a difference. Don't think it's that but it's one thing to try anyway.
Modifié par Olblach, 30 octobre 2010 - 11:58 .
#31
Posté 31 octobre 2010 - 01:08
Dementia5
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It was Shallina's robust response that motivated me back to the drawing board. I think DA has some advantages, but the minimal lighting controls and smaller bestiary were detractors. The lack of multiplayer was not a winning endorsement, and something I failed to consider.
I'm also developing a loyalty for the NWN forum, as the DA forums haven't responded to my query. I'm also getting some hits on my blog with these boards as a referral, so I again I want to give a little something back. As it stands, everyone who has responded on this thread is making an appearance in the campaign. Bottom line, DA is a last resort.
But I have an update worth sharing. On a hunch, I ran "GameBooster" to allocate my memory resources more efficiently... and it worked, I could render a 55 MB erf file (a download from the NWN Vault called Arabel) and had FULL and stable functionality. Alas, I have yet to repeat this, but it convinced me that my resources were not being properly allocated.
I am still committed to thinking this is a memory management issue. There are precious few complaints about Windows 7, but I suspect that Toolset users are from the land of XP less 7, since I am thinking the life-cycle for a dedicated NWN2 module can span the better part of a couple years, Windows 7 hadn't been conceived yet.
But there are a plethora of Windows Vista complaints from developers. Windows 7 is what Vista was supposed to be upon release. In fact, some of the tips and tricks advocated by dunniteowl support my XP vs 7 epiphany based on his posts during the time of Vista's dominance with NWN2 users.
In my travels, I found that NWN2 does not support dual core processors, which I think is daft but another matter. Still, even after setting the affinity of the processor to single-core, I'm getting the same errors with the Toolset. I am still a little befuddled as to how the CPU and RAM aren't getting along together, but a weak CPU would have some issues in allocating proper memory space, which is what we have here, so it's a possibility worth pursuing.
My processor is a less than modest Intel Duo Core 1.8 GHz chip. With only one core operating, I'm thinking that the threaded processes are locked into a small "compartment' without the "oomph" to get the job done.
The solution? I think I have it:
I have ordered a T9300 processor, which is the top of the line for the 6860FX Gateway to replace the CPU on my system. It was time anyhow. This may do the job, seeing as a single core would have higher overhead. At the very least performance will improve during gameplay.
And in the meantime I have installed XP as a VMWare virtual machine. The developers tout that XP runs better that XP every did. I am loathe to have two copies of NWN on one laptop, but since I can't reinstall I have no choice.
I'll have the answer in a few days.
I'm also developing a loyalty for the NWN forum, as the DA forums haven't responded to my query. I'm also getting some hits on my blog with these boards as a referral, so I again I want to give a little something back. As it stands, everyone who has responded on this thread is making an appearance in the campaign. Bottom line, DA is a last resort.
But I have an update worth sharing. On a hunch, I ran "GameBooster" to allocate my memory resources more efficiently... and it worked, I could render a 55 MB erf file (a download from the NWN Vault called Arabel) and had FULL and stable functionality. Alas, I have yet to repeat this, but it convinced me that my resources were not being properly allocated.
I am still committed to thinking this is a memory management issue. There are precious few complaints about Windows 7, but I suspect that Toolset users are from the land of XP less 7, since I am thinking the life-cycle for a dedicated NWN2 module can span the better part of a couple years, Windows 7 hadn't been conceived yet.
But there are a plethora of Windows Vista complaints from developers. Windows 7 is what Vista was supposed to be upon release. In fact, some of the tips and tricks advocated by dunniteowl support my XP vs 7 epiphany based on his posts during the time of Vista's dominance with NWN2 users.
In my travels, I found that NWN2 does not support dual core processors, which I think is daft but another matter. Still, even after setting the affinity of the processor to single-core, I'm getting the same errors with the Toolset. I am still a little befuddled as to how the CPU and RAM aren't getting along together, but a weak CPU would have some issues in allocating proper memory space, which is what we have here, so it's a possibility worth pursuing.
My processor is a less than modest Intel Duo Core 1.8 GHz chip. With only one core operating, I'm thinking that the threaded processes are locked into a small "compartment' without the "oomph" to get the job done.
The solution? I think I have it:
I have ordered a T9300 processor, which is the top of the line for the 6860FX Gateway to replace the CPU on my system. It was time anyhow. This may do the job, seeing as a single core would have higher overhead. At the very least performance will improve during gameplay.
And in the meantime I have installed XP as a VMWare virtual machine. The developers tout that XP runs better that XP every did. I am loathe to have two copies of NWN on one laptop, but since I can't reinstall I have no choice.
I'll have the answer in a few days.
Modifié par Dementia5, 31 octobre 2010 - 01:15 .
#32
Posté 31 octobre 2010 - 05:59
dunniteowl
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The Toolset can use dual core (but no more than that) as it is using a .net as it's interface and that can support a dual core framework (when it was designed at the time, dual cores were just really getting popular as a consumer product) and yes, NWN2 was released before the RC of Vista and it was not designed with Vista or Win7 in mind.
The changes in Vista and Win7, vis a vis, the DX10 and DX11 changes over DX9 -- which are quite significant to the point where DX9 is not compatible with the newer versions. In the times before, you could install DX9 over 8 or 6 even and it would overwrite the original files as they were basically upgrading the same functional application. Now that is not so. The way the newer DXs function is so different in how they handle things that they don't overwrite the older versions and get installed in their own compartment, so to speak.
As to your files, you should still be able to manually delete the files and folders for NWN2 and in that case, simply move or copy your working files and saves to another safe folder and whack away. Also, you should check Windows Registry files to ensure there are no more references to NWN2 and once that is done, you should be able to install NWN2. I've installed NWN2 right over an old installation (once) and I didn't seem to encounter any issues with it. (Truth is, I got sloppy, didn't care and just installed right over an older installation. It worked anyway.)
You know, this is the one question I haven't asked you and I just went back and read the entire thread to make sure it was or was not addressed. And it wasn't.
So: is this a 32 bit or 64 bit version of Win7? If it's 32 bit, then all that has been suggested should have taken care of this unless there is some sort of memory chip issue (like maybe a bad section of RAM.) If you have a 64 bit version the issue lies with not having used the 64 bit versions of .net and DX9.
And if you know of a online site where you can download some testing software to check your system RAM and your Video RAM for integrity, that might be a good thing, too. You just bought the system, I trust it's under warranty in such a case?
best of luck and keep at it, we'll ultimately get you sorted.
dunniteowl
The changes in Vista and Win7, vis a vis, the DX10 and DX11 changes over DX9 -- which are quite significant to the point where DX9 is not compatible with the newer versions. In the times before, you could install DX9 over 8 or 6 even and it would overwrite the original files as they were basically upgrading the same functional application. Now that is not so. The way the newer DXs function is so different in how they handle things that they don't overwrite the older versions and get installed in their own compartment, so to speak.
As to your files, you should still be able to manually delete the files and folders for NWN2 and in that case, simply move or copy your working files and saves to another safe folder and whack away. Also, you should check Windows Registry files to ensure there are no more references to NWN2 and once that is done, you should be able to install NWN2. I've installed NWN2 right over an old installation (once) and I didn't seem to encounter any issues with it. (Truth is, I got sloppy, didn't care and just installed right over an older installation. It worked anyway.)
You know, this is the one question I haven't asked you and I just went back and read the entire thread to make sure it was or was not addressed. And it wasn't.
So: is this a 32 bit or 64 bit version of Win7? If it's 32 bit, then all that has been suggested should have taken care of this unless there is some sort of memory chip issue (like maybe a bad section of RAM.) If you have a 64 bit version the issue lies with not having used the 64 bit versions of .net and DX9.
And if you know of a online site where you can download some testing software to check your system RAM and your Video RAM for integrity, that might be a good thing, too. You just bought the system, I trust it's under warranty in such a case?
best of luck and keep at it, we'll ultimately get you sorted.
dunniteowl
#33
Posté 31 octobre 2010 - 07:23
Dementia5
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This is a 32 bit system. I was told that DX9 could peacefully co-exist with DX11; if this is not the case then the VMWare solution may be a viable one. I did perform a Windows based RAM test who results yielded nothing extraordinary.
Fact is, I installed XP onto my laptop as a virtual machine, and I successfully loaded up and rendered the OC. Good for morale, but it was sloooow... then I realized that VMWare configures the XP state with 512 MB RAM by default. I repeated the install (with SP2 and NWN2 with included drivers, .NET, DX9c etc...) and am hopeful for better performance.
As one might deduce, I am reluctant to reinstall my Win 7 OS for obvious reasons, not the least of which is massive inconvenience that would rival what I've showcased for the readers on this thread. Stay tuned, the solution is out there...
For those not in the know, VMWare is an award winning utility that renders a virtual machine onto an existing machine. It is a portal on your desktop that allows you to embed almost any separate OS into its clutches. It is an EXCELLENT troubleshooting tool, and may be a salvation for anyone who is experiencing the difficulties I am having... but not lets get ahead of ourselves. I would state the case that VMWare is the absolute best third party application ever engineered, since Partition Magic in the 90s.
Fact is, I installed XP onto my laptop as a virtual machine, and I successfully loaded up and rendered the OC. Good for morale, but it was sloooow... then I realized that VMWare configures the XP state with 512 MB RAM by default. I repeated the install (with SP2 and NWN2 with included drivers, .NET, DX9c etc...) and am hopeful for better performance.
As one might deduce, I am reluctant to reinstall my Win 7 OS for obvious reasons, not the least of which is massive inconvenience that would rival what I've showcased for the readers on this thread. Stay tuned, the solution is out there...
For those not in the know, VMWare is an award winning utility that renders a virtual machine onto an existing machine. It is a portal on your desktop that allows you to embed almost any separate OS into its clutches. It is an EXCELLENT troubleshooting tool, and may be a salvation for anyone who is experiencing the difficulties I am having... but not lets get ahead of ourselves. I would state the case that VMWare is the absolute best third party application ever engineered, since Partition Magic in the 90s.
#34
Posté 31 octobre 2010 - 09:17
MokahTGS
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You know this is kind of a stupid suggestion, but have you thought of exporting an area in question and uploading it so others can see if we can open it? I have XP and have never had any issues opening areas, or module, even large ones. I've also not had issues with Vista on my laptop.
If you upload an area, I'm sure someone with Win7 can give you feedback on it's opening.
If you upload an area, I'm sure someone with Win7 can give you feedback on it's opening.
#35
Posté 31 octobre 2010 - 11:21
Dementia5
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Not a stupid suggestion, it's a good one. The problem is the area I'm working on is the last successful load. It's the "stock" areas (i.e. from the OC, or the NW Vault community modules) I'm having problems with. Once I start getting creative, which I assume exceeds the mem limit... POOF.
I will post a link so that anyone with any Windows OS can see for themselves. Let me finish my VMWare duties (still ongoing, Trick or Treat indeed). Curious, can you give the specs for your laptop?
I will post a link so that anyone with any Windows OS can see for themselves. Let me finish my VMWare duties (still ongoing, Trick or Treat indeed). Curious, can you give the specs for your laptop?
#36
Posté 31 octobre 2010 - 11:26
Dementia5
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...and I obliterated any reference to Neverwinter Nights 2 in the registry. Still can't get past the bloody installshield. I didn't delete the NWN2 program directory because I have no faith left that it will properly install. At least the NWN2 game works; with all the patches, upgrades and tinkering I've been doing just to get this toolset to behave, it's a wonder it works at all.
Modifié par Dementia5, 31 octobre 2010 - 11:32 .
#37
Posté 02 novembre 2010 - 02:24
Dementia5
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Had some success today in keeping the Toolset stable, but let's see how it fares on your end 
Have a look. Per MokahTGS' suggestion, below, for a short while at least, is the download link to the module. The download link is at the center of my own troubleshooting comment. All comments are welcome, here or on my blog; although I am keeping a record of the project lifecycle on www.neverdarklands.net; by sorting through the entries on my blog it will be easier to track any changes, award credit and so forth. Cheers.
http://www.neverdark...ge=1#comment-38
Have a look. Per MokahTGS' suggestion, below, for a short while at least, is the download link to the module. The download link is at the center of my own troubleshooting comment. All comments are welcome, here or on my blog; although I am keeping a record of the project lifecycle on www.neverdarklands.net; by sorting through the entries on my blog it will be easier to track any changes, award credit and so forth. Cheers.
http://www.neverdark...ge=1#comment-38
Modifié par Dementia5, 02 novembre 2010 - 03:44 .
#38
Posté 02 novembre 2010 - 09:04
BartjeD
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This problem sounds somewhat similar to what I experienced. Does your toolset crash when loading smaller areas as well occasionally? (semi often)
If so I think it is .Net issue.
The problem then is that windows 7 ships with an install of .Net 1 & 2 which probably did not install correctly. (does it have all the updates?)
This tool could come in handy to verify that your .Net installation is up to date and working correctly: http://blogs.msdn.co...13/8999004.aspx
Additionally for uninstalling .Net on windows 7, if worst assumptions are correct: http://blogs.msdn.co...07/8108332.aspx
Be warned that it should be a last resort to uninstall .Net using given utility. It may be simpler to reinstall Windows or use the VMware solution.
If so I think it is .Net issue.
The problem then is that windows 7 ships with an install of .Net 1 & 2 which probably did not install correctly. (does it have all the updates?)
This tool could come in handy to verify that your .Net installation is up to date and working correctly: http://blogs.msdn.co...13/8999004.aspx
Additionally for uninstalling .Net on windows 7, if worst assumptions are correct: http://blogs.msdn.co...07/8108332.aspx
Be warned that it should be a last resort to uninstall .Net using given utility. It may be simpler to reinstall Windows or use the VMware solution.
Modifié par BartjeD, 02 novembre 2010 - 09:06 .
#39
Posté 02 novembre 2010 - 11:47
Dementia5
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Yes, the Toolset crashes "semi-often" (about 50%) with the smaller areas as well.
Thanks for the verifier, that is a new weapon in my arsenal . The log says at the end that .NET 4.0 completed successfully:
[11/02/10,07:41:38] Verification succeeded for product .NET Framework 4 Client
but a few warnings:
[11/02/10,07:41:31] ***WARNING*** File C:\\\\Windows\\\\Microsoft.NET\\\\Framework\\\\sbscmp20_mscorlib.dll is not installed on the system
[11/02/10,07:41:36] ***WARNING*** File C:\\\\Windows\\\\Microsoft.NET\\\\Framework\\\\v4.0.30319\\\\WPF\\\\wpftxt_v0400.dll is not installed on the system
[11/02/10,07:41:36] ***WARNING*** File C:\\\\Windows\\\\Microsoft.NET\\\\Framework\\\\v4.0.30319\\\\WPF\\\\WPFFontCache_v0400.exe is not installed on the system
and a couple 64 bit warnings that are not relevant.
Thanks for the verifier, that is a new weapon in my arsenal . The log says at the end that .NET 4.0 completed successfully:
[11/02/10,07:41:38] Verification succeeded for product .NET Framework 4 Client
but a few warnings:
[11/02/10,07:41:31] ***WARNING*** File C:\\\\Windows\\\\Microsoft.NET\\\\Framework\\\\sbscmp20_mscorlib.dll is not installed on the system
[11/02/10,07:41:36] ***WARNING*** File C:\\\\Windows\\\\Microsoft.NET\\\\Framework\\\\v4.0.30319\\\\WPF\\\\wpftxt_v0400.dll is not installed on the system
[11/02/10,07:41:36] ***WARNING*** File C:\\\\Windows\\\\Microsoft.NET\\\\Framework\\\\v4.0.30319\\\\WPF\\\\WPFFontCache_v0400.exe is not installed on the system
and a couple 64 bit warnings that are not relevant.
Modifié par Dementia5, 02 novembre 2010 - 02:19 .
#40
Posté 02 novembre 2010 - 06:39
BartjeD
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It doesn't report the rest of your Net installations? I was under the impression it is supposed to do so. Net 4.0 isn't relevant for NWN as far as I know though. It's net 1.0, net 2.0 and 3.5 you need.
I also tried installing Net 4.0 to see if it helped, what fixed it for me was a proper reinstall with another copy of windows 7. (owning a licence to use software implies that you can get the program from whatever source if memory serves)
When I tried uninstalling the .net using the second tool given I was unable to reinstall them or remove version 2.0. (everything but 2.0 was removed in fact, it just woudn't go)
If you reinstall windows 7 you should be able to get the net installations you need by simply using windows update. Don't forget DX9 though.
If you are loathe to try a reinstall you could try using the .net uninstall utility & steps I linked to or try the VMware solution (with XP perhaps?)
I am not certain but border on being so in thinking that this is .Net related. This because I had the exact same thing and fixed it by doing a reinstall after I figured out my .Net installation was a mess.
I also tried installing Net 4.0 to see if it helped, what fixed it for me was a proper reinstall with another copy of windows 7. (owning a licence to use software implies that you can get the program from whatever source if memory serves)
When I tried uninstalling the .net using the second tool given I was unable to reinstall them or remove version 2.0. (everything but 2.0 was removed in fact, it just woudn't go)
If you reinstall windows 7 you should be able to get the net installations you need by simply using windows update. Don't forget DX9 though.
If you are loathe to try a reinstall you could try using the .net uninstall utility & steps I linked to or try the VMware solution (with XP perhaps?)
I am not certain but border on being so in thinking that this is .Net related. This because I had the exact same thing and fixed it by doing a reinstall after I figured out my .Net installation was a mess.
Modifié par BartjeD, 02 novembre 2010 - 06:50 .
#41
Posté 02 novembre 2010 - 07:08
Dementia5
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I will uninstall and reinstall until it installs correctly then. IIRC other versions were present in the log.
If I didn't know better, I'd say .NET doesn't install the same way twice.
If I didn't know better, I'd say .NET doesn't install the same way twice.
#42
Posté 02 novembre 2010 - 11:20
Dementia5
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I just upgraded the dual core CPU from 1.7 GHz to 2.5 GHz. Alas, my problem remains but the overall performance has improved greatly:
Toolset loads in 30 sec as opposed to 90 sec before.
NWN2 performs better; I'd say frame rates have improved about 50% overall
Windows CPU performance gauge went from 4.6 to 6.0. Whatever that means.
a great investment, and couldn't be happier with it (except for the removal of that last screw which was fighting against freedom for 30 minutes...)
So, back to the problem at hand. I've decided to throw in the towel and perform a Windows 7 reinstall, after I am convinced that .NET cannot be repaired. Most indicators lean toward this as the culprit, but before I back everything up and reinstall my SW I'm going to take another crack at version 4.0, then 2.0... thanks to BartjeD's links it will be easier to crack.
Quite the soap opera, yes, but I believe the end is near.
Toolset loads in 30 sec as opposed to 90 sec before.
NWN2 performs better; I'd say frame rates have improved about 50% overall
Windows CPU performance gauge went from 4.6 to 6.0. Whatever that means.
a great investment, and couldn't be happier with it (except for the removal of that last screw which was fighting against freedom for 30 minutes...)
So, back to the problem at hand. I've decided to throw in the towel and perform a Windows 7 reinstall, after I am convinced that .NET cannot be repaired. Most indicators lean toward this as the culprit, but before I back everything up and reinstall my SW I'm going to take another crack at version 4.0, then 2.0... thanks to BartjeD's links it will be easier to crack.
Quite the soap opera, yes, but I believe the end is near.
#45
Posté 26 novembre 2010 - 11:18
Dementia5
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A progress report... I've had mostly success with rendering new areas, developing said areas and outright moving this module closer to the finish line (i.e., I have some new screenshots in my link), but it seems that for every two steps forward there's one step back in that the Toolset keeps crashing when I save my work. Particularly with this large prefab area I imported from the Vault... it seems I cannot make any changes without first saying a prayer to God and hoping I don't see the dreaded "Toolset not working" pop-up, which has become a feature during development.
My question is, how "normal" is this? I'd say for every seven or eight saves, one fails and corrupts my progress. I have so many backups I've kept a QA spreadsheet detailing the changes, but I'd be surprised if this was the norm. After all, if this is a game that has worked so well for others four years ago, why such poor execution on my machine (to be fair, I've never had any issues with the OC, the community mods, the game proper, etc... just the Toolset)? Any thoughts?
My question is, how "normal" is this? I'd say for every seven or eight saves, one fails and corrupts my progress. I have so many backups I've kept a QA spreadsheet detailing the changes, but I'd be surprised if this was the norm. After all, if this is a game that has worked so well for others four years ago, why such poor execution on my machine (to be fair, I've never had any issues with the OC, the community mods, the game proper, etc... just the Toolset)? Any thoughts?
#46
Posté 27 novembre 2010 - 04:41
dunniteowl
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Save more frequently between doing things and also check the amount of placeables not converted to Environmental Objects in the area you're working on. Don't run any processes that you don't have to have running and also minimize your use of multiple windows when possible.
This is not to say minimize your windows, but only have those activated when required in the first place.
There are known memory leakage issues and the longer you work in the toolset without saving the greater a chance you run of module corruption. Also, if you have a fairly large area (or are using a lot of grass and/or water) trim it back some where ever possible. Convert whatever is practical to do so to Environmental Objects.
These things are known to help reduce toolset crashes.
Another thing to note is that when handling large placeables (like Castle Never, or the Watch placeable, fro example) take your time before doing anything further once you move the placeable. This same is true if you move a group of placeables and you notice a bit of lag from selection and movement of the mouse to the placeable group actually moving. This is an indication that your toolset is hitting some sort of memory limitation (either due to leakage or page file size, possible interrelated) and once you get proper placement and you know you have active control, that's a good time to save (and don't bake unless you've made terrain mesh changes) then exit the toolset and maybe reboot.
These issues crop up dependant upon the machines they're running on and there's no set rule of thumb to go by as some folks with the hottest rigs sometimes have more trouble than those with more mediocre levels of performance. Just pay attention to when you're starting to have issues and take that opportunity to save, exit, reboot and then get back to modding.
dunniteowl
This is not to say minimize your windows, but only have those activated when required in the first place.
There are known memory leakage issues and the longer you work in the toolset without saving the greater a chance you run of module corruption. Also, if you have a fairly large area (or are using a lot of grass and/or water) trim it back some where ever possible. Convert whatever is practical to do so to Environmental Objects.
These things are known to help reduce toolset crashes.
Another thing to note is that when handling large placeables (like Castle Never, or the Watch placeable, fro example) take your time before doing anything further once you move the placeable. This same is true if you move a group of placeables and you notice a bit of lag from selection and movement of the mouse to the placeable group actually moving. This is an indication that your toolset is hitting some sort of memory limitation (either due to leakage or page file size, possible interrelated) and once you get proper placement and you know you have active control, that's a good time to save (and don't bake unless you've made terrain mesh changes) then exit the toolset and maybe reboot.
These issues crop up dependant upon the machines they're running on and there's no set rule of thumb to go by as some folks with the hottest rigs sometimes have more trouble than those with more mediocre levels of performance. Just pay attention to when you're starting to have issues and take that opportunity to save, exit, reboot and then get back to modding.
dunniteowl
#47
Posté 27 novembre 2010 - 05:19
Dementia5
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Thanks as always, DO. I'll attempt the Environmental Object approach. If all else fails, I could simply dismiss the prefab altogether, although it is aesthetically appealing and would be missed.
#48
Posté 27 novembre 2010 - 05:45
_Knightmare_
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Turning down the screen resolution in the toolset (View -> Options -> Graphics -> Render Size) to something like 800x600 may help out your lag/crash issue if its set to something higher. There's a "Render Timeout" setting too, but not quite sure what that does.
#49
Posté 27 novembre 2010 - 03:26
Dementia5
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Tried both, still having problems saving the module. Set the render size to 400 x 300 and selected ALL placables, having them rendered as environmental objects. Here is the error I get:
Problem Event Name: CLR20r3
Problem Signature 01: nwn2toolsetlauncher.exe
Problem Signature 02: 1.0.23.1765
Problem Signature 03: 4a89fba1
Problem Signature 04: mscorlib
Problem Signature 05: 2.0.0.0
Problem Signature 06: 4bebd50b
Problem Signature 07: 346b
Problem Signature 08: 26
Problem Signature 09: System.OutOfMemoryException
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1033
Problem Event Name: CLR20r3
Problem Signature 01: nwn2toolsetlauncher.exe
Problem Signature 02: 1.0.23.1765
Problem Signature 03: 4a89fba1
Problem Signature 04: mscorlib
Problem Signature 05: 2.0.0.0
Problem Signature 06: 4bebd50b
Problem Signature 07: 346b
Problem Signature 08: 26
Problem Signature 09: System.OutOfMemoryException
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1033
#50
Posté 27 novembre 2010 - 08:08
Anotherone773
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I have a 100 MB module that is one area that i can open and work with just fine. I get a very occasional toolset crash on saving. But its rare. My toolset crashes have been limited to crashing during a bake and save when i bake all areas( one area or both being rather large). I can usually avoid this by opening each area and baking it. Most of the time baking and saving is not an issue. I can even run nwn2 with the toolset open on this module. I also have two 31 MB modules( single area) that will be growing in size that run fine in toolset.
I will go through what i have and you see what you can pick out.
First my system:
i7-860(quad core, 8 virtual cores)
8GB ram
1 TB Raid 0 HDD( Raid 0 increases read and write performance when working with large files)
1GB Nvidia GT220 video card.
7.1 onboard sound
Software:
DirectX 11 and DirectX 9C( to make the toolset work)
.Net Version 4
NWN2:SOZ Version 1.23.1765( latest patch)
NWN2 Toolset version 1.0.1765
Pagefile Size:16 GB Max currently using 4gb of pagefile with mod open in toolset.
Toolset settings:
Rendering 720 x 560 ( i create terrain at this setting), 900 x720 ( i add details at this setting and do minor terrain work)
Farplane: 1000 ( I do not use farplane i find it annoying.I like to see my entire area from different views)
Modules:
2 are 31 MB single area. Module contents are terrain height( cliffs) multilayer texturing, water( river) and worldmap transitions
a 100 MB module that is a "test module". Single large area( 24 x24 i think) Excessive terrain height variations ( mountains) , textured, grass( lots) and trees( about 30-40) about 2 dozen other placeables , 2 encounters, and about 50 or 60 various creatures.
I rarely have an issue with any of these modules.
My personal observations:
* The toolset has a memory leak. Not for sure what causes it. But having a high end system allows me to run it with the memory leak for several hours( i also load the game to test several times while toolset is open) depending on the module and area i am working with. The memory leak requires a full system reboot every so often depending on your pc.
* The toolset is a memory hog( mainly because of the mem leak but also because it is a graphic rendering program) and cpu hog. I am running at 30% used both on cpu and memory right now with the 100 mb area open.
Suggestions:
1) Check for excessive object placement on your tiles. Having an excessive amount of objects on a single tile might cause it to crash.
2) Memory management. I think your issue is mainly with memory. You dont have as much memory to spare as i do. Try closing down all unnecessary programs including those running in the background.After working with the toolset for so long do a system reboot. If your working with a large file you will want to save and reboot more often.
3) Buy more memory. Upgrading to 8 GB will probably help your issue.
4) Can you divide your module or area and use this as a work around. Do a smaller area and have a direct link transition to a different module with a continuation of the area. This will help keep your mod size low and workable.
5) Try changing your options in the toolset to render at 320 x 240( or even lower) before you bake and save. This may help cut down on memory usage for the process. Then to work on the area you could always up the rendering resolution.
6) Make sure the large area( if a mod has more than 1 area) is the loaded area and is viewable. Only bake and save 1 area at a time.( always use bake current area). Only open 1 area at a time.
I will go through what i have and you see what you can pick out.
First my system:
i7-860(quad core, 8 virtual cores)
8GB ram
1 TB Raid 0 HDD( Raid 0 increases read and write performance when working with large files)
1GB Nvidia GT220 video card.
7.1 onboard sound
Software:
DirectX 11 and DirectX 9C( to make the toolset work)
.Net Version 4
NWN2:SOZ Version 1.23.1765( latest patch)
NWN2 Toolset version 1.0.1765
Pagefile Size:16 GB Max currently using 4gb of pagefile with mod open in toolset.
Toolset settings:
Rendering 720 x 560 ( i create terrain at this setting), 900 x720 ( i add details at this setting and do minor terrain work)
Farplane: 1000 ( I do not use farplane i find it annoying.I like to see my entire area from different views)
Modules:
2 are 31 MB single area. Module contents are terrain height( cliffs) multilayer texturing, water( river) and worldmap transitions
a 100 MB module that is a "test module". Single large area( 24 x24 i think) Excessive terrain height variations ( mountains) , textured, grass( lots) and trees( about 30-40) about 2 dozen other placeables , 2 encounters, and about 50 or 60 various creatures.
I rarely have an issue with any of these modules.
My personal observations:
* The toolset has a memory leak. Not for sure what causes it. But having a high end system allows me to run it with the memory leak for several hours( i also load the game to test several times while toolset is open) depending on the module and area i am working with. The memory leak requires a full system reboot every so often depending on your pc.
* The toolset is a memory hog( mainly because of the mem leak but also because it is a graphic rendering program) and cpu hog. I am running at 30% used both on cpu and memory right now with the 100 mb area open.
Suggestions:
1) Check for excessive object placement on your tiles. Having an excessive amount of objects on a single tile might cause it to crash.
2) Memory management. I think your issue is mainly with memory. You dont have as much memory to spare as i do. Try closing down all unnecessary programs including those running in the background.After working with the toolset for so long do a system reboot. If your working with a large file you will want to save and reboot more often.
3) Buy more memory. Upgrading to 8 GB will probably help your issue.
4) Can you divide your module or area and use this as a work around. Do a smaller area and have a direct link transition to a different module with a continuation of the area. This will help keep your mod size low and workable.
5) Try changing your options in the toolset to render at 320 x 240( or even lower) before you bake and save. This may help cut down on memory usage for the process. Then to work on the area you could always up the rendering resolution.
6) Make sure the large area( if a mod has more than 1 area) is the loaded area and is viewable. Only bake and save 1 area at a time.( always use bake current area). Only open 1 area at a time.
Modifié par Anotherone773, 27 novembre 2010 - 08:09 .
