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[Brockololly]

OK, so the Pirate Lady it would seem is Isabela. Is this indeed the same Isabela from Origins?

They look nothing at all even remotely alike:


Edit: Isabela from the toolset (ok, she at least doesn't look like a ginger here:)


Isabela from the Pearl in Origins:



DA2 Isabela:

Modifié par Brockololly, 26 octobre 2010 - 07:48 .

[David Gaider]

Since we are now having the same conversation in multiple places (grumble), I'll repost what I said about Isabela in the other one:

We considered keeping her looking as she did, but considering she was a pretty minor character in DAO it seems a bit self-limiting to keep her with the same look when we could do amazing things with a redesign. I think she looks great (and she was always Rivaini and dark-skinned, as I recall the lighting in the Pearl just made it difficult to tell).

As for the voice, it's a different voice actress but she sounds much the same as she did.

I guess the question would be: why not make it a whole new character, then? I suppose it's because we like Isabela, and we like the story that her being that Isabela brings into the mix. At any rate, Sheryl did a pretty awesome job on her. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

Modifié par David Gaider, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:52 .

[Sheryl Chee]

Saibh wrote...
Put on some pants.

Pants are an unnecessary inconvenience. Ask any number of my friends.

[David Gaider]

Saibh wrote...
EDIT: Also, I won't mind a voice actor change. She sounded exactly like Anora and I couldn't get over it.

She was the same actress as Anora, actually. That's one of the reasons for the change. We didn't want major characters in DA2 to share voice actors with major characters in DAO (unless they were the same character, of course). And you heard a lot more from Anora than you did from Isabela.

[David Gaider]

DanteCousland wrote...
I accept your retcon, I can't not accept it but saying it was down to the "Lighting in the pearl" is pretty cheap don't you think.

Might have been the Pearl, might have been the game. I know because I had this same conversation with Sheryl, and she brought up the Origins Isabela model in the toolset and she was a lot darker than I remember her looking in-game.

At any rate, she was always supposed to be Rivaini and I liked the new look, so I'm pleased regardless.

I don't really like romancing "looses" (****ty) women in games or real life

So... don't? The day we hit on a romance character that has universal appeal, the skies will open up and Armageddon will begin. Thankfully romances are optional, as always.

[David Gaider]

Saibh wrote...
This is true, and maybe a concern we should raise early. Both of them are bisexual foreign dual-wielding rogues who are very loose with their sexuality. And are dark-skinned. I'm sure more parallels can be drawn. I do think we're seeing a trend of bisexual characters that are pretty promiscuous, and a lot of people felt like Zevran was a stereotype. I liked him as a character, and I hated it when people demeaned his romance on that basis, but I don't want it to happen again.

Fair enough. This has far more to do with her being Isabela and a pirate than her being bisexual, but I can see where someone could draw the comparison. Even so, I'd wait to see the whole lineup before someone starts accusing us of forming a pattern.

[Mary Kirby]

Saibh wrote...

Seagloom wrote..

The one serious niggle I have is why we have two bisexual characters in a row who are, as the IGN previewer writes, "easy romances". I am sure BioWare's writers have their reasons, and I do not accuse them of perpetuating a stereotype but eh... seeing two bisexual characters in a row fitting this mold does not sit well with me as a bi person. Hopefully what I see in the actual game will prove me wrong.

This is true, and maybe a concern we should raise early. Both of them are bisexual foreign dual-wielding rogues who are very loose with their sexuality. And are dark-skinned. I'm sure more parallels can be drawn. I do think we're seeing a trend of bisexual characters that are pretty promiscuous, and a lot of people felt like Zevran was a stereotype. I liked him as a character, and I hated it when people demeaned his romance on that basis, but I don't want it to happen again.

...Leliana doesn't count as one of our bisexual characters? Well, that's convenient.

[John Epler]

I'm going to quite politely point out that veiling ad hominem inside the layers of an actual argument doesn't make it any less of ad hominem. If you want to disagree, that's cool! These forums are made for discussion and conversation, and it'd be pretty boring if everyone agreed on everything.



But if all you're looking to do is condescend and pick a fight, you might find that other forums may be more to your liking. Discuss the issues.

[David Gaider]

dan107 wrote...
So the leading lady is a wh*re, and a pretty ugly one at that? Meh.

"Leading lady"? It's a companion, with an optional romance, and one you don't even have to recruit. If you really don't like her, then give her a pass. Seriously, the day we make a romanceable character that appeals to absolutely everyone (and, if female, isn't picked apart by forumites based on her facial features)... well, there's no need to speculate because that will never happen.

Just because it's the first companion we've publicly spotlighted doesn't mean there isn't anyone else.

[John Epler]

Please restrict this topic to talking about Isabela as she relates to the Dragon Age franchise, and let's get off the increasingly offensive discussion about subjective opinions on what's acceptable re: sexual promiscuity and the like.

[John Epler]

dan107 wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Please restrict this topic to talking about Isabela as she relates to the Dragon Age franchise, and let's get off the increasingly offensive discussion about subjective opinions on what's acceptable re: sexual promiscuity and the like.

Well if her demonstrated sexual promiscuity in DAO is something that makes her unattractive to us a a romanceable character in DA2, are we supposed to just ignore that?

Saying you dislike a character because of her promiscuity is one thing.

Repeatedly throwing out insults (whether it is towards a fictional character or not) is another. I'm fairly certain everyone here can figure out where the line is. We try to foster a positive atmosphere here.

[John Epler]

I should also mention that insulting other posters or their beliefs is completely unacceptable, and will only net you a vacation from the forums. I shouldn't have to tell anyone that, but it seems it must be reiterated.

[Stanley Woo]

Millions of Spider-Man fans are similarly distressed whenever a new artist draws the character since, for example, the Ramos Spider-Man, the Deodato Spider-Man, the Romita Jr. Spider-Man, and the McFarlane Spider-Man look very different from each other. Personally, I am shocked--SHOCKED, i say--that Spider-Man can stay the same character despite going through so many appearance changes without any character ever commenting on it.

[John Epler]

Guys, shemale is a rather offensive term, particularly to some members of our community. Please avoid it in the future.

[John Epler]

Merced256 wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Merced256 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Why do I get the feeling that companions will have only 1 or 2 unique outfits a la Mass Effect 2? This stemmed from the talk about pants. So can a female rogue PC dress the same way as Isabela?

Yeah, this is what I fear too. Hopefully it is only to make them more distinct in the trailers.

Also note that they've said your main route to becoming friends with particular party members if through doing stuff with them, rather than through conversation options. Seems a lot like ME2 to me.

So is it safe to call it Dragon Effect yet or no?

Well to be fair it can't be me2 with out the key element to immersion that me2 had; which was the score screen. It made me feel like i was there.. like.. really there ya know?

Keep this on topic about DA2. If you want to talk about ME2, the ME forums are right here.

[John Epler]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

He doesn't need to impress
anyone, because he's right. The whole you have to be politically correct
so noone gets all butthurt, has to be the most damaging thing I've seen
happen in society in a long time. The world isn't butterflies and
rainbows, the idea that people need to be coddled to the extreme extent
isn't really helpful.

This isn't a debate. The word is offensive to a segment of the community. I avoided handing out  any bans or warnings because I believe it to be an honest mistake, but I did receive complaints from forum posters, and so I made my post.

I don't think asking people to be respectful and avoid terms that some community members consider hurtful is being unreasonable.

Modifié par JohnEpler, 27 octobre 2010 - 12:42 .

[David Gaider]

Golden-Rose wrote...

TJPags wrote...
Especially after they saw how smoothly we all accepted this minor change.

Well, there haven't actually been that many people protesting to her change.

Indeed. There's always going to be a few people that complain, but judging from the overall response (and filtering out the ones that post on the subject over and over again) I'd say the response to Isabela has been quite positive.

There's more nit-picking over the particulars of her appearance, perhaps, but that's par for the course for a female love interest. If you looked too closely at the initial threads after Morrigan was first revealed, for instance, there was much railing against her giant lips, huge jaw, uncanny valley face, boyish figure, etc. etc., and you would have thought she was the ugliest thing to cross the internet. People like to be melodramatic, particularly about the inconsequential.

[David Gaider]

TS2Aggie wrote...
May I respectfully ask why you didn't just make a wholly new character instead of completely redesigning Isabela?

Sure. I'd suggest looking at one of my earlier posts in this thread where I answer exactly that.

[David Gaider]

Harid wrote...
I will say that they will probably have to change her face, though. Western standards of beauty are a ****, aren't they. They leave her how she is, people will have jokes past the game release, and they change her, and they compromise their vision. It's like Cole McGrath from Infamous all over again (though that was something to complain about.)

I doubt we'll change her appearance any more than we changed Morrigan's, beyond tweaks we'd already intended. Considering that one's tastes in appearance are pretty subjective, there's no way we could change her to anything that would be universally acceptable-- especially with regards to a romanceable character that's going to get this level of scrutiny.

Personally, I think she looks great, though I could come up with a laundry list of her flaws the same way I could any actress or model I see in a magazine. Doesn't change the fact that she's hella sexy.

[David Gaider]

TS2Aggie wrote...
Okay, I'm sorry but that makes little sense to me. I thought you said that you liked Isabela. If you liked her so much, why did you completely change her appearance? Just to make sure we're clear on this: I do not think the new Isabela is ugly. In fact, if she was a completely new character I think she'd be great. But she looks absolutely nothing like Isabela from Dragon Age: Origins. Nothing. Completely altering a character's features doesn't really strike me as something one would do to a character that they liked.

Tweaking a character's appearance I can see, but I can't actually make out one facial feature that New Isabela shares with classic Isbela. It sort of makes it difficult to actually feel the new game, you know? It just takes one out of the role playing element of the game. With DA:O you could jump right in and start playing it because there was no pre-existing canon or continuity that needed to be followed but that's not the case with DA2. This just seems like such an unnecessary change. *shrugs*

Well, like I said we weren't that committed to keeping the appearance for a minor character that had no unique work done on her back in DAO. So the basics remained the same (ie. dark-skinned, sexy pirate wench) and we went from there. We liked her enough to give her a makeover, if you will.

And, yes, it's important to us that she be THAT Isabela and not just some other female pirate. That allows us to tie her into events from Origins in ways that make us happy. If someone's need for visual continuity is that acute that a change to a minor character is a cause for anxiety, especially in the face of the overhaul in visual style across the board, then I imagine Isabela won't be your only problem here.

[David Gaider]

dan107 wrote...
Why do you keep saying that? We do have a near universally accepted standard of beauty. Base the next one on a Victoria's Secret model. Seriously. Just try it once. I'm sure you'll get a few people (mostly women) complaining that she's unrealistic, but I can't imagine too many normal men calling an underwear model ugly.

Uh-huh. You say that like people don't pick over the individual flaws of Victoria's Secret models like they were hideous creatures, as well.

I guess we could go for the blandly attractive cover girl as the ideal, sure, but we'd rather not-- and that wouldn't stop the nit-picking anyhow, so why bother?

[David Gaider]

TS2Aggie wrote...
. . . "Anxiety"? The only thing I expressed a desire for was continuity in a game that I expect I will probably enjoy; I don't really think that merits being belittled by you.

I'm not belittling you. I do think making numerous posts expressing "concern" over something to be anxiety, however, sure. You asked politely and I answered your questions... and insofar as people being concerned about visual continuity from DAO to DA2 all I meant is there are MUCH bigger changes (see the darkspawn, for instance, or the qunari) so I'm not sure why someone would be point out Isabela specifically, as if we weren't already overhauling the looks of things across the board. That's it.

[Francis Lacuna]

Saibh wrote...

Really, it's only the lips. I have no problem with a heavier jaw and chin or brows, but her lips don't look right on her face. Not for being unattractive, but I suppose it's Uncanny Valley. They look like someone else's lips 'Shopped in. Too tiny for her face. I think having thinner, wider lips might do her good to look less unnatural. 

Actually there was a bug with her mouth shape not playing nicely with specific animations (such as the smirk) that was resolved but unfortunately did not make the trailer. So the pinched look has since been fixed. She looks much better throwing that dagger though!

As for her "fuller" face...I wanted to give her a little meat on her bones to match her huskier frame. She's gotta be built to support those well-endowed assets.........I mean....Can you imagine wearing that much gold around your neck? 


EDIT and apparently I don't have a bioware tag attached to this account. I'll have to fix this tomorrow

Modifié par SonFrancisco, 27 octobre 2010 - 06:46 .

[David Gaider]

dan107 wrote...
Well why not just try it once and see how it goes? I honestly think you would get a lot fewer people calling her ugly. Maybe she won't be the hottest thing in the world to everyone, but she'll be attractive enough to almost every heterosexual male.

Sounds like she'd hit your preferences, sure.

I'm not sure why we would do that, however, except to supposedly calm the people who are calling Isabela ugly. Which I already told you they would do anyhow, no matter how Victoria-esque she looked, because that's what people do-- especially to models.

So I think we're okay with making our characters look interesting, rather than striving for some perfection to appease people who are mostly complaining about nothing anyhow. And I'll leave it at that, sorry.

[John Epler]

Alright.



This thread is now sufficiently off-topic. Please feel free to start it again - without the discussions of off-topic, real-world issues and without the personal attacks.



Locking.