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[Dave of Canada]

Morrigans God son wrote...

Does this mean we'll see Anders as well? At the end of Awakening. Didn't it say he travelled with a certain female captin.

That was his lady friend, not Isabela.

[Merced256]

imported_beer wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Because, umm, *I* saw her.  YOU saw her.  We all know that's not the same woman.

If I see Drew Barrymore at the store, and you see her at the gym, is she not the same woman anymore?

I meant more like: From a role playing perspective, this would be the first time your PC laid eyes on Isabela and wouldn't know what she looked like.

So, I am confused as to why it breaks immersion or continuity. It is different in movies because you as a person are not playing the protagonist. You are the outsider looking in. But from a gaming perspective, you are the hero. And this is a woman you have never seen before.

Not to derail the thread in to any sort of RPG debate but, i think its pretty clear that going in any direction that veers closer to me2 effectively reduces whatever ability the player might have had to view themselves as the hero. If nothing else its damn sure not as cut and dry as you paint it to be. I myself never saw shep as my character and really did feel like i was "playing" a movie.

[the_one_54321]

Tamyn wrote...
The only markedly masculine thing I see is that the lighting makes her look like she has some light facial hair. But in the other image of her that is not noticeable.

I remember all the complaints about Morrigan's face in the forums before DA:O came out. I was one of the critics. Her lower lip was too big, her eyes were too small and squinty, one guy said she had facial hair. When the game came out the criticisms disappeared. Voice and presentation count for a lot.

She has pretty eyes and lips, I will grant that. As I've said before, more than once, it could be just the lighting. Certainly the lighting kind of suggests that she has stuble, which she obviously doesn't. But it has come up with three different characters now. Female Hawke, Carver and Isabela. Could also be something with the engine that they need to fix. Can't really say at this point.

As for the issues with Morrigans face, no they didn't disappear. People made mods. I used the Sacred Ashes mod, myself.

[the_one_54321]

imported_beer wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
The fact that he has seen her before makes it difficult to put that image out of his head. If he'd never seen her at the Pearl then he probably wouldn't care. I can sympathize. Though I think most of the redesign is pretty awesome, especially since it improves drastically on the cookie cutter body models, it's going to be a bit jarring thinking of these two face models as the same person.

But that is THE_ONE.

Hawke has not. And if you cannot disassociate your Hawke from what your warden has seen, I wonder if the game will be somewhat jarring in more than just "the chick I had a threesome with doesn't look the same". The visuals are completely different, so is the combat, so are the graphics. I am personally going to approach it as a completely new world with characters I have never seen because technically Epic Hawke has never seen them.

That is just a personal take./

You're totally right. And when I play the game, I'll get over the disparity. But it is still going to bug me a little bit at first. I can't just forget the face I saw before.

[mousestalker]

So Isabela's face should stay the same as in DAO yet be better and have a different chin in DA2, but be the same. She should be pretty, but not too pretty and feminine without being female. She should wear revealing but modest clothing and be tough but not overly so. She should be available to both sexes except when she isn't.



Is that a fair summation of the consensus here?

[Brockololly]

imported_beer wrote...
Again, your Hawke did not see her at the Pearl. So from a gaming perspective, your PC is meeting her for the first time. Thus, I am puzzled why what the grey warden saw when HE/SHE went to the Pearl matters.

Eh, I get what you're saying there but thats an awfully slippery slope I think in terms of rationalizing their visual retcon of Isabela.

So if Hawke ran into Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana or Zevran it would be ok to have them look totally different simply because Hawke hasn't seen them before?

I just think this sort of metagaming issue is problematic in DA now that you're bringing in new PCs yet they're still interacting with old ones like Flemeth, which the player has waaaay more knowledge of than Hawke.

Modifié par Brockololly, 27 octobre 2010 - 03:11 .

[Blastback]

imported_beer wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

The fact that he has seen her before makes it difficult to put that image out of his head. If he'd never seen her at the Pearl then he probably wouldn't care. I can sympathize. Though I think most of the redesign is pretty awesome, especially since it improves drastically on the cookie cutter body models, it's going to be a bit jarring thinking of these two face models as the same person.

But that is THE_ONE.

Hawke has not. And if you cannot disassociate your Hawke from what your warden has seen, I wonder if the game will be somewhat jarring in more than just "the chick I had a threesome with doesn't look the same". The visuals are completely different, so is the combat, so are the graphics. I am personally going to approach it as a completely new world with characters I have never seen because technically Epic Hawke has never seen them.

That is just a personal take./

Problem is, I know I can't do that.  The biggest problem i have with all the new art direction is that it screws with my recognition that this is still Dragon Age.  I know it is just the cosmetic elements, but visuals are important to my ability to maintain that sort of world continuity.  For the most part the new art style isn't an issue, but some of the redesigns just throw me a little.  Not enough to cause major problems, but enough that I don't think that the link between the games and stories will be as strong for me.

Like, I can't see Isabela as anything besides what we saw in Origins.  I can't identify her as this new character, and yeah, that does kinda bother me.

[the_one_54321]

mousestalker wrote...
So Isabela's face should stay the same as in DAO yet be better and have a different chin in DA2, but be the same. She should be pretty, but not too pretty and feminine without being female. She should wear revealing but modest clothing and be tough but not overly so. She should be available to both sexes except when she isn't.

Is that a fair summation of the consensus here?

Yes.
No.
I mean yes.
Wait no.
Maybe.

[Bruddajakka]

Her face is very different looking. I wouldn't call her ugly but exotic more then anything.

[Merced256]

Brockololly wrote...

imported_beer wrote...
Again, your Hawke did not see her at the Pearl. So from a gaming perspective, your PC is meeting her for the first time. Thus, I am puzzled why what the grey warden saw when HE/SHE went to the Pearl matters.

Eh, I get what you're saying there but thats an awfully slippery slope I think in terms of rationalizing their visual retcon of Isabela.

So if Hawke ran into Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana or Zevran it would be ok to have them look totally different simply because Hawke hasn't seen them before?

That also means ferleden can stop smelling like wet dog because we're apparently getting a fresh new perspective.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Brockololly wrote...

imported_beer wrote...
Again, your Hawke did not see her at the Pearl. So from a gaming perspective, your PC is meeting her for the first time. Thus, I am puzzled why what the grey warden saw when HE/SHE went to the Pearl matters.

Eh, I get what you're saying there but thats an awfully slippery slope I think in terms of rationalizing their visual retcon of Isabela.

Compared to the Skeletorian Darkspawn this is a minor quibble.

[Riona45]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Unless you're planning on playing DA:O simultaneous with DA2 and constantly intercutting between the two AND staying camped in the Pearl in Denerim while you're at it, the character design changes exactly once--between DA:O and DA2.  Personally, I don't really care. 

Neither do I.  I find it interesting to discuss, but I'm not going to find it jarring when I actually play the game.  After all, when I played DA:O I spent all of five minutes with her, give or take.  She stayed in my mind as a character, but I didn't dwell on her appearance.

[Tamyn]

the_one_54321 wrote...

As for the issues with Morrigans face, no they didn't disappear. People made mods. I used the Sacred Ashes mod, myself.

I know people made mods, but they didn't feel compelled to keep making thread after thread for criticizing her facial features as far as I know. Maybe that was just because nothing could be done by that point though.

I will say that I like the original BioWare party members' faces oodles better than every single player mod that changes their faces I have ever seen. A lot of the player mods for the female NPCs made faces look more artificial and mask-like.

Modifié par Tamyn, 27 octobre 2010 - 03:30 .

[Xanduin123]

i dont know if someone else has said this before, but the way i rationalize the differences in darkspawn, isabela, and other places, people, or things weve seen looking different is that varric is telling a tale, and thats how hes describing it in his story



works for me lol

[Durang]

Her cheeks look a little bloated to me, like baby fat cheeks...and her chin...Other than that I think her body looks great.

tmp7704 wrote...
 armour of the Devout set.

Wow, that Leliana looks awesome.

Modifié par Durang, 27 octobre 2010 - 03:23 .

[the_one_54321]

Durang wrote...
Her cheeks look a little bloated to me, like baby fat cheeks...and her chin...Other than that I think her body looks great.

tmp7704 wrote...
 armour of the Devout set.

Wow, that Leliana looks awesome.

I had mine looking like she'd jumped right out of the Sacred Ashes trailer.

[Brockololly]

imported_beer wrote...
However that is just the way I roll and I am not forcing that opinion on anyone. Just offering a perspective. And I respect that others may not see it that way.

No, that makes sense entirely.

It would just bother me to no end if they ended up doing something like that, changing up how individual places or characters  that are readily identifiable to the player, like Alistair or Morrigan, should they show up. That would irk me greatly for the sake of visual consistency from the player's POV, if nothing else.

[idoless24]

Isabela looks awesome! I'm all for it.



But I do wish she had at least shorts on underneath the skirt thingy..

[Zjarcal]

Am I the only who thinks she doesn't look THAT different from Origins? Obviously she wasn't going to look identical, what with the different art style and all, but considering I thought the pirate lady from the trailer was Isabela from the first time I saw her, I really can't agree with those who say she doesn't look anything like her model in Origins.



Now, about visual retcons, I understand the concern about what they could do with the more important character from Origins who will be showing up in DA2. I really don't think that any retcons will render them unrecognizable. Obviously there will be some changes, but I wouldn't be that concerned really.



Just my 2 cents.

[Randy1012]

The only thing about her face that gets me is her rather large chin (her mouth might be a bit too close to her nose), but other than that I think she looks fine.

[Spartansfan8888]

Zjarcal wrote...

Am I the only who thinks she doesn't look THAT different from Origins? Obviously she wasn't going to look identical, what with the different art style and all, but considering I thought the pirate lady from the trailer was Isabela from the first time I saw her, I really can't agree with those who say she doesn't look anything like her model in Origins.

Now, about visual retcons, I understand the concern about what they could do with the more important character from Origins who will be showing up in DA2. I really don't think that any retcons will render them unrecognizable. Obviously there will be some changes, but I wouldn't be that concerned really.

Just my 2 cents.

No I agree with you... when you look at the Origins toolset version of her they are very similar.  Her mouth needs to be bigger to match the original and her face shape has changed a little but comparing the two I can believe its the same person.

[Brockololly]

Zjarcal wrote...

Am I the only who thinks she doesn't look THAT different from Origins? Obviously she wasn't going to look identical, what with the different art style and all, but considering I thought the pirate lady from the trailer was Isabela from the first time I saw her, I really can't agree with those who say she doesn't look anything like her model in Origins.

Sure, but its mostly (I think) because in the first CGI trailer and now, her outfit clearly screams out "PIRATE!" and Isabela was really the only female pirate we met in Origins. But face structure wise, she looks rather different. Really though I don't care too much specifically about her new look as she was a 5 minute blink and you miss it character in Origins. But....

Zjarcal wrote...
Now, about visual retcons, I understand the concern about what they could do with the more important character from Origins who will be showing up in DA2. I really don't think that any retcons will render them unrecognizable. Obviously there will be some changes, but I wouldn't be that concerned really.

Just my 2 cents.

This is my primary concern- that old characters from Origins like Alistair, Morrigan or whoever, show up only to have a face transplant, yet have the same voice coming out of some stranger's face. So sure, if you dressed up somebody with dark hair in a Chasind looking outfit and heard Claudia Black's voice coming out or a male guy with short hair in armor with Steve Valentine's voice, you could guess that they were Morrigan and Alistair. But face wise, you should be able to readily identify them without needing all the other cues.

I have no problem if they change up existing character's wardrobes or hair and such or give Drunken Alistair a shaggy beard, but if you played Origins for dozens of hours you should be able to readily identify iconic characters like those as being the same from Origins, based on how their faces look.

[HighMoon]

Well, I recall the devs saying that they redesigned Isabela because she was a minor character in DAO and therefore they could get away with it without there being a mass uproar. I doubt they would do the same with major characters like Morrigan or Alistair.