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[ShrinkingFish]

dan107 wrote...


Morrigan did have the shoulders and hands of a linebacker though. That's probably tied to the fact that you used the same skeleton for males and females, but that point still stands. She was an interesting and compelling character nonetheless, but looking more feminine would not have hurt her.

Only when you took her cloths off, actually. I thought she had a rather pleasing feminine slope when she was wearing her proper robes.

Why do you keep saying that? We do have a near universally accepted standard of beauty. Base the next one on a Victoria's Secret model. Seriously. Just try it once. I'm sure you'll get a few people (mostly women) complaining that she's unrealistic, but I can't imagine too many normal men calling an underwear model ugly.

And I know some men who find victoria secret models unattractive... so you'll have no luck there. I don't even find all of them attractive.

But then, I'm looking above the neckline.

[David Gaider]

TS2Aggie wrote...
Okay, I'm sorry but that makes little sense to me. I thought you said that you liked Isabela. If you liked her so much, why did you completely change her appearance? Just to make sure we're clear on this: I do not think the new Isabela is ugly. In fact, if she was a completely new character I think she'd be great. But she looks absolutely nothing like Isabela from Dragon Age: Origins. Nothing. Completely altering a character's features doesn't really strike me as something one would do to a character that they liked.

Tweaking a character's appearance I can see, but I can't actually make out one facial feature that New Isabela shares with classic Isbela. It sort of makes it difficult to actually feel the new game, you know? It just takes one out of the role playing element of the game. With DA:O you could jump right in and start playing it because there was no pre-existing canon or continuity that needed to be followed but that's not the case with DA2. This just seems like such an unnecessary change. *shrugs*

Well, like I said we weren't that committed to keeping the appearance for a minor character that had no unique work done on her back in DAO. So the basics remained the same (ie. dark-skinned, sexy pirate wench) and we went from there. We liked her enough to give her a makeover, if you will.

And, yes, it's important to us that she be THAT Isabela and not just some other female pirate. That allows us to tie her into events from Origins in ways that make us happy. If someone's need for visual continuity is that acute that a change to a minor character is a cause for anxiety, especially in the face of the overhaul in visual style across the board, then I imagine Isabela won't be your only problem here.

[ShrinkingFish]

dan107 wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...
Changing her appearance doesn't change her character.... appearance does not equal identity.

What "identity"? She was a minor 2 bit character whose only claim to fame was that she would screw just about anyone that wanted her. Why pick that, of all things, as the starting point for a romance befuddles me as well.

Lies and slander!

She was a very nice lady!

Modifié par ShrinkingFish, 27 octobre 2010 - 06:34 .

[Randy1012]

David Gaider wrote...

And, yes, it's important to us that she be THAT Isabela and not just some other female pirate. That allows us to tie her into events from Origins in ways that make us happy. If someone's need for visual continuity is that acute that a change to a minor character is a cause for anxiety, especially in the face of the overhaul in visual style across the board, then I imagine Isabela won't be your only problem here.

Uh oh. You didn't give Sandal a makeover, too, did you?

[mellifera]

Well, look at the Yvonne Strahvoski. Beautiful woman, voiced and was the model for Miranda. Yet Miranda gets called all sorts of names. Even if they based a character off a supermodel there would be no consensus because, you guessed it, they're not everyone's ideal and there are dozens of other games you could go to and find that aesthetic.

[David Gaider]

dan107 wrote...
Why do you keep saying that? We do have a near universally accepted standard of beauty. Base the next one on a Victoria's Secret model. Seriously. Just try it once. I'm sure you'll get a few people (mostly women) complaining that she's unrealistic, but I can't imagine too many normal men calling an underwear model ugly.

Uh-huh. You say that like people don't pick over the individual flaws of Victoria's Secret models like they were hideous creatures, as well.

I guess we could go for the blandly attractive cover girl as the ideal, sure, but we'd rather not-- and that wouldn't stop the nit-picking anyhow, so why bother?

[dan107]

ShrinkingFish wrote...
And I know some men who find victoria secret models unattractive... so you'll have no luck there. I don't even find all of them attractive.

But then, I'm looking above the neckline.

Well of course there are some men that find them unattractive. But the fact that those magazines sell, and that the vast majority of models in them look more or less the same shows that the ones that don't like them are a fairly small minority.

[Bruddajakka]

Though unfortunately she does seem like a different character...really there isn't anything that's the same from DAO beyond Dark skinned Pirate wench.



Redesigned her completely, and gave her a new VA on top of that.

[mellifera]

dan107 wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...
And I know some men who find victoria secret models unattractive... so you'll have no luck there. I don't even find all of them attractive.

But then, I'm looking above the neckline.

Well of course there are some men that find them unattractive. But the fact that those magazines sell, and that the vast majority of models in them look more or less the same shows that the ones that don't like them are a fairly small minority.

Yes, and this should be viewed as a good thing that should continue why, exactly?

[Aggie Punbot]

David Gaider wrote...
If someone's need for visual continuity is that acute that a change to a minor character is a cause for anxiety, especially in the face of the overhaul in visual style across the board, then I imagine Isabela won't be your only problem here.

. . . "Anxiety"? The only thing I expressed a desire for was continuity in a game that I expect I will probably enjoy; I don't really think that merits being belittled by you.

Meh, I'll just do as I always do: pretend that wizards did it and just ignore it.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 27 octobre 2010 - 06:37 .

[upsettingshorts]

Technically, she'd screw someone with sufficient (75) Coercion, hence - someone who was 3/4ths of the way to maxing out the darn skill. Which is to say, if you believe in the conventions of how roleplaying games actually work, she doesn't sleep with "just anybody" but someone who knows the right things to say.



Which some folk don't seem to be taking into account.

[ShrinkingFish]

yukidama wrote...

Well, look at the Yvonne Strahvoski. Beautiful woman, voiced and was the model for Miranda. Yet Miranda gets called all sorts of names. Even if they based a character off a supermodel there would be no consensus because, you guessed it, they're not everyone's ideal and there are dozens of other games you could go to and find that aesthetic.

Miranda was gorgeous...

It broke my heart to turn her down. Well... not my heart heart. My testosterone heart.

But yeah... a LOT of people think she was hideous... which I don't get... then again, I thought Jack was a babe too.

And despite all of this I went for Tali because she had the best personality. Never even saw her pretty face... but I didn't mind so much.

[Ryzaki]

yukidama wrote...

Well, look at the Yvonne Strahvoski. Beautiful woman, voiced and was the model for Miranda. Yet Miranda gets called all sorts of names. Even if they based a character off a supermodel there would be no consensus because, you guessed it, they're not everyone's ideal and there are dozens of other games you could go to and find that aesthetic.

Actually I think Yvonne is pretty hott but didn't like Miranda's looks that much (her personality grew on me) I still think MIranda hits uncanny valley pretty hard at times.

[dan107]

yukidama wrote...

Well, look at the Yvonne Strahvoski. Beautiful woman, voiced and was the model for Miranda. Yet Miranda gets called all sorts of names. Even if they based a character off a supermodel there would be no consensus because, you guessed it, they're not everyone's ideal and there are dozens of other games you could go to and find that aesthetic.

I think that most complaints about Miranda stemmed from the way that her face was imported into the game -- uncanny valley and all that. I personally didn't see it. As far as her body went -- IIRC most of the complaints were from women saying that her ****** and ass are too big. Don't remember too many men complaining about that particular aspect.

[Fortlowe]

Jacob: (grumbling to himself while he's doing situps) What the heck was I thinking? Five hundred and three! Rassa frackin prize.....Really! Five hundred and four! Still got Shep aaand Lawson though.  Five hundred and five! Wonder how Kasumi is doin? Five hundred and six!

Okay back on topic, I just saw earlier in the thread an early pic of Morrigan, who we can count as pretty much the hottest chick in DA:O. Isabela's early pic looks way better than Morrigans. I don't think there is anything to worry about.

[ShrinkingFish]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Technically, she'd screw someone with sufficient (75) Coercion, hence - someone who was 3/4ths of the way to maxing out the darn skill. Which is to say, if you believe in the conventions of how roleplaying games actually work, she doesn't sleep with "just anybody" but someone who knows the right things to say.

Which some folk don't seem to be taking into account.

And you met her pretty early on sometimes.... So in many cases you didn't even have a chance to sleep with her no matter how much you tried. She just looked at you funny and said "Naw... I'd rather play cards"

Ultimate shut down. Loved it.

[Ryzaki]

dan107 wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Well, look at the Yvonne Strahvoski. Beautiful woman, voiced and was the model for Miranda. Yet Miranda gets called all sorts of names. Even if they based a character off a supermodel there would be no consensus because, you guessed it, they're not everyone's ideal and there are dozens of other games you could go to and find that aesthetic.

I think that most complaints about Miranda stemmed from the way that her face was imported into the game -- uncanny valley and all that. I personally didn't see it. As far as her body went -- IIRC most of the complaints were from women saying that her ****** and ass are too big. Don't remember too many men complaining about that particular aspect.

Wasn't the size as much as it was forced into my face so often.

Edit: Also please DA team do not shove female character's assets in my face (or male characters for that matter) please? I do not want to have to sigh in disgust or facepalm at what should be a serious moment beause the camera is focusing on someone's ass. <_<

I like the character but jeez was her being used as fetish fuel a hurdle to jump over.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 06:44 .

[dan107]

David Gaider wrote...
I guess we could go for the blandly attractive cover girl as the ideal, sure, but we'd rather not-- and that wouldn't stop the nit-picking anyhow, so why bother?

Well why not just try it once and see how it goes? I honestly think you would get a lot fewer people calling her ugly. Maybe she won't be the hottest thing in the world to everyone, but she'll be attractive enough to almost every heterosexual male.

[ShrinkingFish]

dan107 wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...
And I know some men who find victoria secret models unattractive... so you'll have no luck there. I don't even find all of them attractive.

But then, I'm looking above the neckline.

Well of course there are some men that find them unattractive. But the fact that those magazines sell, and that the vast majority of models in them look more or less the same shows that the ones that don't like them are a fairly small minority.

Woo!! I'm a minority!! Sweet!

I'm so tired of being a middle class white male...

[David Gaider]

TS2Aggie wrote...
. . . "Anxiety"? The only thing I expressed a desire for was continuity in a game that I expect I will probably enjoy; I don't really think that merits being belittled by you.

I'm not belittling you. I do think making numerous posts expressing "concern" over something to be anxiety, however, sure. You asked politely and I answered your questions... and insofar as people being concerned about visual continuity from DAO to DA2 all I meant is there are MUCH bigger changes (see the darkspawn, for instance, or the qunari) so I'm not sure why someone would be point out Isabela specifically, as if we weren't already overhauling the looks of things across the board. That's it.

[ShrinkingFish]

dan107 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
I guess we could go for the blandly attractive cover girl as the ideal, sure, but we'd rather not-- and that wouldn't stop the nit-picking anyhow, so why bother?

Well why not just try it once and see how it goes? I honestly think you would get a lot fewer people calling her ugly. Maybe she won't be the hottest thing in the world to everyone, but she'll be attractive enough to almost every heterosexual male.

I'd call her ugly...

If only to prove a point.

[Addai]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Technically, she'd screw someone with sufficient (75) Coercion, hence - someone who was 3/4ths of the way to maxing out the darn skill. Which is to say, if you believe in the conventions of how roleplaying games actually work, she doesn't sleep with "just anybody" but someone who knows the right things to say.

Which some folk don't seem to be taking into account.

I mentioned the Persuade early on, or maybe it was in the skank thread, I'm losing track.  She does also decline if the partner objects.

Nevertheless once the Warden is "in," she takes all... comers.  Three, four, men, women.  So her standards aren't that high.

Whatever, to each her own.  I just don't like her much so I admit I don't cut her slack.

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

dan107 wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Well, look at the Yvonne Strahvoski. Beautiful woman, voiced and was the model for Miranda. Yet Miranda gets called all sorts of names. Even if they based a character off a supermodel there would be no consensus because, you guessed it, they're not everyone's ideal and there are dozens of other games you could go to and find that aesthetic.

I think that most complaints about Miranda stemmed from the way that her face was imported into the game -- uncanny valley and all that. I personally didn't see it. As far as her body went -- IIRC most of the complaints were from women saying that her ****** and ass are too big. Don't remember too many men complaining about that particular aspect.

Wasn't the size as much as it was forced into my face so often.

I like the character but jeez was her being used as fetish fuel a hurdle to jump over.

Femme Fatale. She filled the role beautifully. Hence why I skirted her. The only reason why I skirted her. I knew she would end me...

[Randy1012]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

I'd call her ugly...

If only to prove a point.

No matter what BioWare does, no matter how extreme they go or how safe they keep things, someone will always find something to complain about.

We seem to be made to make ourselves suffer. It's our lot in life.

[dan107]

ShrinkingFish wrote...
I'd call her ugly...

If only to prove a point.

Yes, I get it. There are people like you who either have a problem with the way that women are portrayed in magazines, or genuinely find skinny women unattractive. I'm not disputing that. Are you, however, disagreeing with the statement that the overwhelming majority of heterosexual males find underwear models quite appealing sexually?