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[dan107]

yukidama wrote...
As long as her face isn't showing lol amirite?! I dunno. My initial reaction was put on some pants, but really all that's showing is the leg between her boots and her bootyshorts. Not sure it'd be significantly different if she were doing those kicks while wearing leggings anyway, still be all crotchular areas in the face.

By the way, I've been wondering where is the righteous female outrage that seems to manifest itself whenever we see a skimpily clad female character. People complained about Morrigan, Miranda, and Jack like there's no tomorrow, but Isabela gets a pass for some reason? Why?

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

yukidama wrote...

filaminstrel wrote...

Eh, whenever I see her underwear while she's flipping around I can't help but feel that it was a calculated marketing ploy aimed at teenage boys.

As long as her face isn't showing lol amirite?! I dunno. My initial reaction was put on some pants, but really all that's showing is the leg between her boots and her short shorts. Not sure it'd be significantly different if she were doing those kicks while wearing leggings anyway, still be all crotchular areas in the face.

In situations like this I remind myself of what most people think is socially acceptable to wear in public to the beach. Then I giggle about the significance of context. 'tis but a butt.

[Herr Uhl]

dan107 wrote...

yukidama wrote...
As long as her face isn't showing lol amirite?! I dunno. My initial reaction was put on some pants, but really all that's showing is the leg between her boots and her bootyshorts. Not sure it'd be significantly different if she were doing those kicks while wearing leggings anyway, still be all crotchular areas in the face.

By the way, I've been wondering where is the righteous female outrage that seems to manifest itself whenever we see a skimpily clad female character. People complained about Morrigan, Miranda, and Jack like there's no tomorrow, but Isabela gets a pass for some reason? Why?

The boots.

[AtreiyaN7]

TS2Aggie wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...
May I respectfully ask why you didn't just make a wholly new character instead of completely redesigning Isabela?

Sure. I'd suggest looking at one of my earlier posts in this thread where I answer exactly that.

Okay, I'm sorry but that makes little sense to me. I thought you said that you liked Isabela. If you liked her so much, why did you completely change her appearance? Just to make sure we're clear on this: I do not think the new Isabela is ugly. In fact, if she was a completely new character I think she'd be great. But she looks absolutely nothing like Isabela from Dragon Age: Origins. Nothing. Completely altering a character's features doesn't really strike me as something one would do to a character that they liked. It kind of sounds more like you liked the concept of her and not the actual character herself.

Tweaking a character's appearance I can see, but I can't actually make out one facial feature that New Isabela shares with classic Isbela. It sort of makes it difficult to actually feel the new game, you know? It just takes one out of the role playing element of the game. With DA:O you could jump right in and start playing it because there was no pre-existing canon or continuity that needed to be followed but that's not the case with DA2. This just seems like such an unnecessary change. *shrugs*

Why are you so fixated on this? Clearly, the writers liked Isabela because of her spirit - not because of her face. They must have found her personality and her backstory (which I imagine they wrote or thought about, etc.) quite compelling. If they wanted to tweak her appearance, then so what?

I maintain that this new version actually has some character to her face and doesn't look as generic as the old version did (the DA:O toolkit Isabela, as I stated in a previous post, isn't something I'd consider attractive based on both the Divine Proportion - aka the ideal facial proportions based on the Golden Ratio aka...math stuff   - and my personal take on the matter). The DA2 Isabela definitely looks more like a Rivaini in than the old version did, and she seems much more exotic. I think the new appearance is apropos for a Pirate Queen-type.

Seriously, does anyone complain about James Bond being played by different actors over the years? Change is inevitable, and it's not like Sean Connery (most favorite Bond of all time!) could keep on doing the role forever. I recall that people were initially in an uproar about Daniel Craig, the blonde Bond, but let's face it: Casino Royale was the best Bond movie in a long time (the most recent version with Daniel Craig of course  ).

Does anyone complain when a new Superman comes along? Now they're doing a reboot in the film franchise and are going with the umpteenth new Superman (my vote is for Tom Welling btw *cough*). This new Isabela is essentially the same bloody thing: a new "actress" playing the role of Isabela - and it's not like she's even the face of the series like a Bond or a Superman (or a Hawke or a Shepard  ). She's a minor, if interesting, character.

*** EDITED FOR TYPOS - GRR!

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 27 octobre 2010 - 07:58 .

[aznsoisauce]

Lurid post warning 
[I'm going to scissor Isabela dry.]

Also:

AtreiyaN7 wrote...
Casino Royale was the best Bond movie in a long time (the most recent version with Daniel Craig of course  ). 

This is completely opinion, not fact.

Modifié par aznsoisauce, 27 octobre 2010 - 07:59 .

[Fishy]

Brockololly wrote...

OK, so the Pirate Lady it would seem is Isabela. Is this indeed the same Isabela from Origins?

They look nothing at all even remotely alike:


Edit: Isabela from the toolset (ok, she at least doesn't look like a ginger here:)


Isabela from the Pearl in Origins

She look like dirty and junkie in that picture.

Modifié par Suprez30, 27 octobre 2010 - 07:56 .

[ShrinkingFish]

dan107 wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...
What a man will find attractive or appealing in a magazine or advertisement is different than what that same man will find attractive on a tv screen which is different than what that same man will find attractive in real life. Each sphere has very different standards of beauty.

So you're telling me that the men that oogle underwear models in magazines would not find them attractive in real life? Don't buy that.

You don't have to buy it. I'm not selling anyways.

This is just something I have observed throughout my life. Most evident example being from personal experience of meeting a model I had oogled and finding her very unappealing in real life. I found this trend to be consistant with others and I did a bit of independant study on this stuff back in college.

Video games have their own sphere, as these women occupy a completely different mode of existance... they are pixels.

This arguement is absurd. Models in a magazine are merely ink on a piece of paper, and if you really want to break it down all these images are nothing more than wavelengths of light causing a chemical reaction on your retina. The medium has nothing to do with their attractiveness.

Not absurd. It appears you are either unwilling or unable to see the differences in these mediums or the media's influence on varied standards of beauty. Either that or you are among those so emmersed in one medium that you apply it to all walks of life. Which makes sense considering your arguments.

Modifié par ShrinkingFish, 27 octobre 2010 - 07:57 .

[thegoldfinch]

aznsoisauce wrote...

Lurid post warning 
[I'm going to scissor Isabela dry.]

Was.... Was that necessary?

[ShrinkingFish]

pixieface wrote...

aznsoisauce wrote...

Lurid post warning 
[I'm going to scissor Isabela dry.]

Was.... Was that necessary?

There was a warning posted....

[Fishy]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

dan107 wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...
What a man will find attractive or appealing in a magazine or advertisement is different than what that same man will find attractive on a tv screen which is different than what that same man will find attractive in real life. Each sphere has very different standards of beauty.

So you're telling me that the men that oogle underwear models in magazines would not find them attractive in real life? Don't buy that.

You don't have to buy it. I'm not selling anyways.

This is just something I have observed throughout my life. Most evident example being from personal experience of meeting a model I had oogled and finding her very unappealing in real life. I found this trend to be consistant with others and I did a bit of independant study on this stuff back in college.

Video games have their own sphere, as these women occupy a completely different mode of existance... they are pixels.

This arguement is absurd. Models in a magazine are merely ink on a piece of paper, and if you really want to break it down all these images are nothing more than wavelengths of light causing a chemical reaction on your retina. The medium has nothing to do with their attractiveness.

Not absurd. It appears you are either unwilling or unable to see the differences in these mediums or the media's influence on varied standards of beauty. Either that or you are among those so emmersed in one medium that you apply it to all walks of life. Which makes sense considering your arguments.

Ain't beauty just a signal sent to the brain?

Modifié par Suprez30, 27 octobre 2010 - 08:12 .

[ShrinkingFish]

Suprez30 wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

dan107 wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...
What a man will find attractive or appealing in a magazine or advertisement is different than what that same man will find attractive on a tv screen which is different than what that same man will find attractive in real life. Each sphere has very different standards of beauty.

So you're telling me that the men that oogle underwear models in magazines would not find them attractive in real life? Don't buy that.

You don't have to buy it. I'm not selling anyways.

This is just something I have observed throughout my life. Most evident example being from personal experience of meeting a model I had oogled and finding her very unappealing in real life. I found this trend to be consistant with others and I did a bit of independant study on this stuff back in college.

Video games have their own sphere, as these women occupy a completely different mode of existance... they are pixels.

This arguement is absurd. Models in a magazine are merely ink on a piece of paper, and if you really want to break it down all these images are nothing more than wavelengths of light causing a chemical reaction on your retina. The medium has nothing to do with their attractiveness.

Not absurd. It appears you are either unwilling or unable to see the differences in these mediums or the media's influence on varied standards of beauty. Either that or you are among those so emmersed in one medium that you apply it to all walks of life. Which makes sense considering your arguments.

Ain't beauty just a signal sent to the brain?

Everything is just a signal sent to the brain.

[dan107]

ShrinkingFish wrote...
This is just something I have observed throughout my life. Most evident example being from personal experience of meeting a model I had oogled and finding her very unappealing in real life. I found this trend to be consistant with others and I did a bit of independant study on this stuff back in college.

Hasn't been my experience, so we'll have to agree to disagree. What's attractive in real life is a little beside the point at any rate. We're talking about a fantasy video game. If there was ever a medium where an idealized image would be appropriate, this is it.

[Destructo-Bot]

Forum talk at DragonAgeNexus about the new model: http://dragonage.wik...=20101027014156

[mellifera]

Oh, there are problems, trust me. I'll choose to ignore your condescending tone, but There are a variety of factors. All I have are images of her without context. We know from her character that she is a very liberal woman in terms of her sexuality, so it might manifest in the clothing she chooses to wear. This doesn't really mean there are no issues with her being scantily clad, but it makes sense for some characters (Morrigan lived in the Wilds, societal norms mean nothing to her)... The issue is magnified when a character is scantily clad/in skintight clothing and lacks personality other than to be a plot point or conquest for a man or serves no other purpose than to be looked at from ass-on angles like her butt is talking and not her mouth. A woman could be totally naked and it'd be fine were it not for the gaze and impositions of others.

[ShrinkingFish]

dan107 wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...
This is just something I have observed throughout my life. Most evident example being from personal experience of meeting a model I had oogled and finding her very unappealing in real life. I found this trend to be consistant with others and I did a bit of independant study on this stuff back in college.

Hasn't been my experience, so we'll have to agree to disagree. What's attractive in real life is a little beside the point at any rate. We're talking about a fantasy video game. If there was ever a medium where an idealized image would be appropriate, this is it.

Yeah, I didn't mean to make real life the main point. Just that different spheres have different standards of beauty.

A REALLY good example of this is in Anime. People find the women in some of these drawings to be beautiful even though the equivalent in real life would be hideous.

But yeah. I'm fine with agreeing to disagree.

Edit: Or, rather, a really extreme example... not necessarily good.

Modifié par ShrinkingFish, 27 octobre 2010 - 08:02 .

[ShrinkingFish]

yukidama wrote...

Oh, there are problems, trust me. I'll choose to ignore your condescending tone, but There are a variety of factors. All I have are images of her without context. We know from her character that she is a very liberal woman in terms of her sexuality, so it might manifest in the clothing she chooses to wear. This doesn't really mean there are no issues with her being scantily clad, but it makes sense for some characters (Morrigan lived in the Wilds, societal norms mean nothing to her)... The issue is magnified when a character is scantily clad/in skintight clothing and lacks personality other than to be a plot point or conquest for a man or serves no other purpose than to be looked at from ass-on angles like her butt is talking and not her mouth. A woman could be totally naked and it'd be fine were it not for the gaze and impositions of others.

I like your posts.

[Ryzaki]

yukidama wrote...

Oh, there are problems, trust me. I'll choose to ignore your condescending tone, but There are a variety of factors. All I have are images of her without context. We know from her character that she is a very liberal woman in terms of her sexuality, so it might manifest in the clothing she chooses to wear. This doesn't really mean there are no issues with her being scantily clad, but it makes sense for some characters (Morrigan lived in the Wilds, societal norms mean nothing to her)... The issue is magnified when a character is scantily clad/in skintight clothing and lacks personality other than to be a plot point or conquest for a man or serves no other purpose than to be looked at from ass-on angles like her butt is talking and not her mouth. A woman could be totally naked and it'd be fine were it not for the gaze and impositions of others.

Wait...was that too me?  I wasn't being condescending. I just think flipping around without pants is...silly. She's not Jack/Miranda/Samara who can handwave it with "Biotics!" 

Morrigan's outfit....there's nothing really wrong with it. (Truth be told I always expected it to be skimpier). True that. Plus the cold damage was lulz. I love Miranda...but the whole DAT ASS just...urgh. <_<  Also with Morrigan there's no shots of her bending over no unnesssary close ups of her chest. You can't see her cameltoe. >_>

And while those outfits may have made sense for the PCs (Frankly I find Samara and Miranda to be debated but YMMV) in combat? ...Uh...it made as much sense as Shep walking around in a dress in the Collector Base. (Regardless of gender).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 08:08 .

[Destructo-Bot]

I'm not a fan of the direction of the faces. What I see seems to be moving farther away from somewhat realistic looking faces, and now we are getting some kind of weird caricature. Isabela and Cassandra are good examples.



I just don't think they look right. Cartoony instead of artistic.

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Oh, there are problems, trust me. I'll choose to ignore your condescending tone, but There are a variety of factors. All I have are images of her without context. We know from her character that she is a very liberal woman in terms of her sexuality, so it might manifest in the clothing she chooses to wear. This doesn't really mean there are no issues with her being scantily clad, but it makes sense for some characters (Morrigan lived in the Wilds, societal norms mean nothing to her)... The issue is magnified when a character is scantily clad/in skintight clothing and lacks personality other than to be a plot point or conquest for a man or serves no other purpose than to be looked at from ass-on angles like her butt is talking and not her mouth. A woman could be totally naked and it'd be fine were it not for the gaze and impositions of others.

Wait...was that too me?  I wasn't being condescending. I just think flipping around without pants is...silly. She's not Jack who can handwave it with "Biotics!" 

Morrigan's outfit....there's nothing really wrong with it. (Truth be told I always expected it to be skimpier). True that. I love Miranda...but the whole DAT ASS just...urgh. <_<

You think it's silly? Makes sense to me.

In fact, I didn't even notice her outfit outside that I thought it fit the character.

[ShrinkingFish]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

I'm not a fan of the direction of the faces. What I see seems to be moving farther away from somewhat realistic looking faces, and now we are getting some kind of weird caricature. Isabela and Cassandra are good examples.

I just don't think they look right. Cartoony instead of artistic.

Weird. I'd describe the new looks as being more realistic than previously seen in many video games and far less cartoony.

[ShrinkingFish]

Ryzaki wrote...

I love Miranda...but the whole DAT ASS just...urgh. <_<  Also with Morrigan there's no shots of her bending over no unnesssary close ups of her chest. You can't see her cameltoe. >_>

But Miranda was the Femme Fatale! As such I actually found all of the camera angle work to be very thematically appropriate.

I mean, Origins didn't really have camera angles most of the time anyways. It was all the over the shoulder stuff. No opportunity to portray an emotional perspective in that setting.

[dan107]

yukidama wrote...

Oh, there are problems, trust me. I'll choose to ignore your condescending tone, but There are a variety of factors. All I have are images of her without context. We know from her character that she is a very liberal woman in terms of her sexuality, so it might manifest in the clothing she chooses to wear.

So if I'm getting it right -- if she's easy and wears skimpy clothing then it's fine, but if she's not, then it's an issue? 

[Ryzaki]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Oh, there are problems, trust me. I'll choose to ignore your condescending tone, but There are a variety of factors. All I have are images of her without context. We know from her character that she is a very liberal woman in terms of her sexuality, so it might manifest in the clothing she chooses to wear. This doesn't really mean there are no issues with her being scantily clad, but it makes sense for some characters (Morrigan lived in the Wilds, societal norms mean nothing to her)... The issue is magnified when a character is scantily clad/in skintight clothing and lacks personality other than to be a plot point or conquest for a man or serves no other purpose than to be looked at from ass-on angles like her butt is talking and not her mouth. A woman could be totally naked and it'd be fine were it not for the gaze and impositions of others.

Wait...was that too me?  I wasn't being condescending. I just think flipping around without pants is...silly. She's not Jack who can handwave it with "Biotics!" 

Morrigan's outfit....there's nothing really wrong with it. (Truth be told I always expected it to be skimpier). True that. I love Miranda...but the whole DAT ASS just...urgh. <_<

You think it's silly? Makes sense to me.

In fact, I didn't even notice her outfit outside that I thought it fit the character.

Eh. I'll probably just leave her behind. I don't want to look at her fighting and wonder why her enemies aren't attacking her vulnerable and uncovered weakspots.

Unless of course she's going to be hoping around like a ninja. Which has it's own set of issues. <_<

[mellifera]

Ryzaki, it was directed at dan107 who seems to... Nevermind.



But yeah, I am on my phone which makes quoting a bit difficult. Sorry for any misunderstanding xD