1010 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

RE the look. In game how often do you get that one closeup still frame image to look over for hours and find faults? You don't In game it will be rare that you get to stare at any characters facial image for a long period of time unless you just stop in the middle of dialogue.



RE her morals:



Hawke: "I'm sorry but I've heard from others that you are a woman with loose morals who has bedded many and some multiple partners. I'm not sure if I can tolerate that behaviour of someone I am becoming close to."



Isabela: "It is true what you say, mistakes of youth. Giving in to temptation and putting up the front of what is expected of a pirate captain. To become and stay a captain of such men you have to be better than them in all the things they care about. You must be smarter than them, be a better fighter than them and yes even have more sexual conquests. All of that is what got me to the captaincy and kept me there. Men of the sea such as my crew care about fighting, gold, ale and conquests in the bedroom. Do I regret some things I have done in the past? Yes, most people have regrets but I am a changed person. There is an old pirate saying, crew does not change if you do not allow them to change. Will you allow me to change?"

[nijnij]

Come on, when I saw the trailers (both the cinematic and the gameplay one), my first thought in each case was "I'm definitely romancing that character". She looks perfectly normal, any more normal than that would mean BLAND. If you take away the fact that she's computer generated, I wouldn't find it abnormal to find someone with her facial proportions in real life. Actually, a girl I know has similar features and is definitely in the good-looking half of the population.Once again, if you want a character with Hollywoodesque features, there's already Cassandra. If all female characters are the same person with just a different haircut/pirate hat, then where's the fun. I think we can all provide interesting wishes/ideas/frustrations, especially gameplay-wise, in order to get a better game, but nitpicking on every single artistic choice seems like crushing the team's creative effort IMO. I totally understand the attitude (a lot of things in upcoming video games frustrate me or have me going "this is bull****"), but I'm not sure it's appropriate when discussing beauty standards, since they're different for all of us. If she blatantly looked like Schwartzie, I'd be with you guies, but I really think we're nitpicking here.

Modifié par nijnij, 27 octobre 2010 - 02:11 .

[tmp7704]

nijnij wrote...

She looks perfectly normal, any more normal than that would mean BLAND. If you take away the fact that she's computer generated, I wouldn't find it abnormal to find someone with her facial proportions in real life.

I think you'd actually find it pretty hard to locate a human with this particular proportions. I've tried to do that through various google searches couple times since yesterday and got nothing.
 

Once again, if you want a character with Hollywoodesque features, there's already Cassandra. If all female characters are the same person with just a different haircut/pirate hat, then where's the fun.

Cassandra displays the same skewed proportions, actually. For that matter large part of characters of both genders revealed so far do.

Anyway, for little it's worth, this is what Isabela would look like with minor corrections to bring placement of features closer to where they normally are on people:



whether a few milimeters shift downward to the nose and lips turns her totally into someone "blandly attractive" isn't really for me to decide. I'll just point out that she has the same "fixed" proportions on her wallpaper image. So at some point at least they were considered good enough, and are still considered good enough to be featured on the game's main info page as "the" portrait of this particular character, too.

Modifié par tmp7704, 27 octobre 2010 - 02:33 .

[Mecha Tengu]

why does she look liek gypsy

[Brockololly]

tmp7704 wrote...

Cassandra displays the same skewed proportions, actually. For that matter large part of characters of both genders revealed so far do.

Anyway, for little it's worth, this is what Isabela would look like with minor corrections to bring placement of features closer to where they normally are on people:



whether a few milimeters shift downward to the nose and lips turns her totally into someone "blandly attractive" isn't really for me to decide. I'll just point out that she has the same "fixed" proportions on her wallpaper image. So at some point at least they were considered good enough, and are still considered good enough to be featured on the game's main info page as "the" portrait of this particular character, too.

If they change her face to the more realistic proportions like you did, I'd be fine with that regardless of whether you think its HAWT enough or not. Its just worrisome to me that, like you mentioned, most of the DA2 characters seem to have very unnaturally proportioned faces. Its not a matter of HAWT or ugly, its that anatomically speaking, the DA2 faces look like bad caricatures.

Modifié par Brockololly, 27 octobre 2010 - 03:13 .

[tmp7704]

Brockololly wrote...

Its not a matter of HAWT or ugly, its that anatomically speaking, the DA2 faces look like bad caricatures.

Very much that, yes. I don't care much really about whether character looks attractive, but if things are off then it can be like talking with someone who has spinach stuck between their teeth -- it's distracting on subconscious level and i don't really see such distraction to be beneficial. It's also not that i'm against exaggeration of features in general, in many cases these can work and work well... but what i see in DA2 so far isn't one of such cases. So i can only point it out and hope it just may cause someone to have a look at it and come to conclusion that hey, maybe there is some merit to this observation.

[Tranceptor]

tmp7704 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

There's always going to be a few people that complain, but judging from the overall response (and filtering out the ones that post on the subject over and over again) I'd say the response to Isabela has been quite positive.

If i may suggest something... could you check the threads discussing individual characters revealed so far, but instead of the yay/nay tally focus on whether there's certain specific features of these characters that get mentioned more often than others?

I'd guesstimate that you're bound to notice a common theme, and that's people pointing out these characters quite universally display exaggerated chins/jaws (which is a side effect of their noses being disproportionally small, and as result the lips being placed too high up, leaving too large area underneath)

Now, you'd likely point out that it's not something universally disliked, and quite a few people just opt to rib the characters for that feature in good-natured manner, some others also happen to like it. However, my question is this -- have you actually designed all these characters with this exact reaction in mind? In other words, was it intended to draw the players' attention to this particular detail?

Now, whether that's actually intended, a followup question arises -- do you consider it a positive that such generally minor and unimportant feature can apparently --due to being an oddity-- draw disproportionate amount of attention from the viewers? I mean, wouldn't you rather that attention to be given to the rest of your work which actually deserves it, and that is the world and character designs on the whole? As such, wouldn't the game be actually better off if these rough edges were polished to remove or at least reduce the uncanny valley reaction from people who get to see your work for the first time?

Personally, I think she looks great

With all due respect, have you considered that your opinion can be at this point skewed by prolonged exposure to these designs? You're a writer so i'm sure you're intimately familiar with this effect -- after spending long hours working with something, we grow to tune out details which are somewhat off, to the point where we no longer notice them. But for a fresh viewer these details stand out so much, it can leave them with mouth agape and scratching their head asking "how could anyone not see it? It's so obvious".

I guess we could go for the blandly attractive cover girl as the ideal, sure, but we'd rather not-- and that wouldn't stop the nit-picking anyhow, so why bother?

That is a curious argument, considering pretty much all of your game is otherwise built in way to make it attractive to as large group of potential customers if possible. You could just as well go for psychedelic textures, poorly optimized game engine, off-key music and VA performance that'd grate on the ears, since someone is going to nitpick these things anyhow so why bother indeed? And yet you do, don't you? So why an exception here?

Note, i think this argument of yours is also posed in loaded manner -- why does it have to be "blandly attractive" cover girl as the ideal, as opposed to it being characters (of both genders) who are simply proportional enough not to trigger the sense something is off about them in the viewer? Do you think characters can't be just "attractive" if they look like a normal human being, without unnaturaly exaggerated features?

This has to be the most clearly written and rational argument I've read on these forums regarding Isabela's appearance. 

Too bad everyone else doesn't sound like this as devs would probably be a bit more prone to listen. I think these views are well founded. While her new look is an improvement over the original, her face really is 'off' looking.

Modifié par Tranceptor, 27 octobre 2010 - 03:42 .

[Shiakazee]

Brockololly wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Cassandra displays the same skewed proportions, actually. For that matter large part of characters of both genders revealed so far do.

Anyway, for little it's worth, this is what Isabela would look like with minor corrections to bring placement of features closer to where they normally are on people:



whether a few milimeters shift downward to the nose and lips turns her totally into someone "blandly attractive" isn't really for me to decide. I'll just point out that she has the same "fixed" proportions on her wallpaper image. So at some point at least they were considered good enough, and are still considered good enough to be featured on the game's main info page as "the" portrait of this particular character, too.

If they change her face to the more realistic proportions like you did, I'd be fine with that regardless of whether you think its HAWT enough or not. Its just worrisome to me that, like you mentioned, most of the DA2 characters seem to have very unnaturally proportioned faces. Its not a matter of HAWT or ugly, its that anatomically speaking, the DA2 faces look like bad caricatures.

yes, yes those are a lot of worries that can be remedied by simple mods.  I for one am going to mod every woman in the game to match morrigans appearance but thats just me.

[aaniadyen]

I don't see what the big deal is.





I think this is fine.

Modifié par aaniadyen, 27 octobre 2010 - 03:43 .

[Drakist]

I agree with Tranceptor the face does look off to me as well. Overall I like the character design but something about the character's face turned me off. It's not an attractive/non-attractive thing more like something doesn't seem quite right.

[Reaverwind]

Drakist wrote...

I agree with Tranceptor the face does look off to me as well. Overall I like the character design but something about the character's face turned me off. It's not an attractive/non-attractive thing more like something doesn't seem quite right.

I look at those faces and keep thinking "Uncanny Valley".

[nijnij]

As mentionned, she's fine on the other screens, where you have a front view instead of bottom view. It's just an angle thing ; I too have pictures where my chin looks like Jay Leno's. What makes her jaw look big is that the skin underneath is visible in that angle. A hollow chinline would look kind of weird considered how curvy she is.

[Nighteye2]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

TJPags wrote...

So that's the same Isabella, huh?

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" didn't work on her, did it?

Didn't work on the darkspawn either.

Didn't work on many parts of DA:O.

[MerinTB]

Put me down for thinking she looks not just manly but slightly inhuman.



In the same sense I thought Morrigan from the Sacred Ashes trailer looked like Liza Minnelli's twin brother.



Clearly someone in the DA art department doesn not share my aesthetic taste in regards to females.



But that's just my opinion on it.

[nijnij]

I give up !

[mr_luga]

It looks so much like the face of a guy to me. I can't unsee it after someone posted a picture with some stubble on that face. >.< It didnt look like a woman with beard, it looked like a man



Anyhow, hard to really judge until we get to properly see it instead of in a flashy EA trailer.

She seems to look fine in that picture with the Dragon Age 2 writing in the background(Then again, she's pale in that picture so..)

[Draden_LeFey]

Just thought I'd mention that she looks great to me and I like that we have someone who looks slightly exotic as if shes from somewhere else in the Dragon Age world.

Not every female character in the game has to be designed to meet peoples pre-made expectations of how a female companion would appear, i imagine it would get pretty boring if that were the case.

As for realism i think that's a more realistic face than her one from origins. It's also hard with faces until you see facial animations and hear the vocals, I'm sure people will settle down to the appearance.

Modifié par Draden_LeFey, 27 octobre 2010 - 04:48 .

[the_one_54321]

Poll on perceptions of the character models

[tmp7704]

nijnij wrote...

I give up !

No need for that; if Mr.Gaider's comments are accurate, then it sounds like Isabela won't really change appearance, and so she's still going to look the way you find attractive

[Sable Phoenix]

Calla S wrote...

Isabela looks gorgeous. The only thing I would change about her is her mouth. It's sort of... small. And high up on her face. I did a little shop to see what she'd look like with a wider mouth that's a bit farther down.



Yep. Still hot. I don't see the problem. *crosses fingers for F/F LI*

This is a vast improvement.  The in-game model just looks wierd.  Fixing the mouth to actual human proportions makes all the difference in the world.

[DragonRageGT]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Poll on perceptions of the character models

No idea what option would fit this: My problem with Isabela is that she looks nothing like the Spanish Duelist. She looks more like Frida the German Nurse on steroids! Zevran, the Italian Assassin (Hello, Enzo!) would be very disappointed. The French Wardens would just surrender to Frida without a fight!

It doesn't matter if the names have been changed to protect the guilty countries! The accents are all there!

[Addai]

tmp7704 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Its not a matter of HAWT or ugly, its that anatomically speaking, the DA2 faces look like bad caricatures.

Very much that, yes. I don't care much really about whether character looks attractive, but if things are off then it can be like talking with someone who has spinach stuck between their teeth -- it's distracting on subconscious level and i don't really see such distraction to be beneficial. It's also not that i'm against exaggeration of features in general, in many cases these can work and work well... but what i see in DA2 so far isn't one of such cases. So i can only point it out and hope it just may cause someone to have a look at it and come to conclusion that hey, maybe there is some merit to this observation.

I thought the point with the design on DA2 was to be intentionally "arty" and not realistic? 

[rak72]

I had a 7yr obsession with the Sims 2. When Sims 3 came out with the dopey looking faces, I completely dropped the Sims all together. I think a cool swashbuckling Selma Hyak - like Isabella would be awesome . They are just missing the mark with these Sims 3 like cartoons.

Edit- Tmp's minor edit is a vast improvement

Modifié par rak72, 27 octobre 2010 - 05:31 .

[grillzzzzzzzzzz]

i like isabella's look. And Leliana looks like she got hit in the face with a shovel but we still like her.

plus any girl who doesnt wear pants is hawt

Modifié par grillzzzzzzzzzz, 27 octobre 2010 - 05:32 .

[tmp7704]

Addai67 wrote...

I thought the point with the design on DA2 was to be intentionally "arty" and not realistic? 

I don't know since they are quite realistic for the most part -- both the concept art and the cgi models do have pretty regular human proportions. It just seems the in-game models aren't living up to these designs even though there's technically nothing preventing them from it. If it's conscious decision rather than just oversight, then this particular angle they picked fails to work for me personally, as i noted.