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[Collider]

I'm just curious. If we don't like Isabela's sexual practices or finds them unappealing in terms of a romanceable character, does that make us hateful of the idea of a "empowered independent woman"?

[SirOccam]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

aaniadyen wrote...

Well, I'd guess Lothering is destroyed while you're working on the first treaty in Origins. We can assume Hawke flees Lothering while it is being attacked by the appearance of Darkspawn in the beginning of the game. Maybe Flemeth was appearing to Hawke while the warden was busy with the first treaty? It's not as though traveling and getting the treaties is a small event. You need to take into account travel time (2 weeks, 4 days minimum from Orzammar to the Circle tower. That's a pretty long time.) Plus the time it takes to do all the fighting, which would also take at least a few days. I think it'd be easy for her to transform, and appear to Hawke in Lothering in that time, but...the question is why she would want to.

That leaves alot of space in time though between disembarking to have the first treaty honored and then the last one. It could be anywhere between a week to a couple of months to get the black grimoire. Doing the Circle quest could take a few days of travel and a night to storm the tower whereas it would take far longer to go through the mountains to Orzammar, earn the trust of the nobility then delve into the Deep Roads which are described as being vast.

Here is where the game is very contradictory, in it's timeline. How can the destruction of Lothering occur at the end of a short quest or a long quest? It isn't destroyed until you finish the quest objective of selecting a ruler for Orzammar from the two candidates. So the destruction of Lothering can happen in any amount of time and in any amount of conditions. If the town was only destroyed after retrieving the Black Grimoire in the mage tower and not from completeing the first treaty in any location, then I would say a point could be made for Flemeth needing to appear far more similar in DA 2. But, as it stands, any treaty being completed leads to the destruction of Lothering so the town's destruction is just atmosphere.

This is why I am sticking to my theory that Flemeth's new look is a new (posessed or otherwise) body.  It's easier to explain, afterall, she's a legendary wizard! Maybe her new look came from a trip to Liselle in Denerim's market where she bought some Orlesian cosmetics?

All we can really know for sure is that Lothering is destroyed pretty early on. It has been destroyed by the time you complete the first treaty quest...that means it could be the day you left Lothering or the moment you completed the quest, but in either case, all we know is that the Warden was busy, whether in Redcliffe, the Brecilian Forest, Orzammar, or the Circle Tower.

And as I mentioned before, even if you play it so you can kill Flemeth as quickly as possible, it's still too late. So if it's too late in the best case scenario, then we can conclude that it's just not possible to kill Flemeth before Lothering is destroyed. And also keep in mind that Flemeth will probably require time to find and possess a new host. But even if it happened instantaneously, AND the new host was geographically located close enough that her travel time to Lothering was negligible, it still wouldn't work.

So if it is a new host, she either took it needlessly or she was killed by something totally unrelated to either Hawke or the Warden. Neither of those seem very satisfactory.

I don't really see how that can be the "easier" explanation, as it requires a whole bunch of extra assumptions. If we just recognize that she is a shapeshifter, then the only explanation required is that she shifted her shape. And it is backed up by dev posts saying Flemeth appeared as she did to the Warden for a reason. And it fits with what we know about Flemeth from Witch Hunt. She's not just some mage who knows how to shapeshift, like Morrigan.

[TheChris92]

RageGT wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

Well I can say if you grab the PC version there will be mods galore (if they release the toolkit.. you better Bioware!!! *shakes fist*) for differing looks etc, don't like how Isabela looks? Change her in the toolkit, same for all characters.

I posted a pic changing the original femhawke pic because I thought she as well had too large of a jawline along with other features I didn't find the most appealing..



Again, I'll say what always is said, beauty is subjective and the femhawke on the right is my ideal of beauty within the confines of a preexisting design.. *shrugs* I'm not worried in the least, as long as we get a toolkit for DA2...

The difference between these two is that... one is Fat! What's with BW and Plus sized models? Are they trying to rob Arcania their title of Ugliest Women Ever in a Video Game category? Are their fat wives too jealous to let them design pretty woman with normal proportion?

You realize, this might have something to do with the angle this, particular screenshot, was taken. There are some other pics, of Lady hawke, somewhere on this site, to clairfy this I believe just wanted to let ya know that. 

[dan107]

yukidama wrote...

dan107 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

dan107 wrote...

HighlandBerserkr wrote...

For gods sakes people shut up and make your own damn game, there i did it for you Bioware, she looks fine, by the Maker SHUT UP!

Have a drink. It'll help you feel better. Barring that, jam your fingers in a doorway. It'll stop you from posting.

TeenZombie wrote...

HighlandBerserkr wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Russalka wrote...

The second, more stable and pleasant topic got locked.
This one cannot be redeemed. What are the Isabela fans going to do now?

I was just thinking of politely asking Stanley Woo to allow a positive Isabela support thread to be created. 

The "Internet Male" quotient is way too high in this thread to bring it back to constructive discussion.

Hey now, i am a Man and i am trying to deter all these fools

Oh, I'm not talking about all guys...Internet Males are a very specific phenomenon.  It's nothing personal. 

So everyone that dares criticize a blatantly ugly character has to be a loser doing it for attention? What about Internet Females who seem to take it as a personal insult whenever there is a remotely attractive female character in a game? Lol. Bunch of sexist hypocrites.

This is only true if your definition of 'remotely attractive' is 'largely uncovered by clothing and with boobs that are bigger than her head.' If that's the case, then yeah, you're completely correct, I suppose.

Unless she happens to be a skan.. I'm sorry, "sexually empowered female" like Isabela. Then said Internet Females jump to her defense for some reason, in spite of the fact that she's prancing about in a mini-skirt and a thong.

I would respond to this but you have consistently proven yourself to be more thickheaded than a pachycephalosaurus so in lieu of a reply I shall just

Pachycephalosaurus? Really? Of all the analogies you could've gone with, that's the one you picked? To be honest I'm a little flattered that someone busted out the dictionary just to try and insult little old me.

[LiquidGrape]

Revan312 wrote...

I never said the romance was good, hehe, I just meant that they molded Jacob's exterior into a female's ideal of male beauty..

Correction: an alleged ideal.
One could argue that both Jacob and Miranda weren't all that attractive simply because of the fact that they had been designed to be attractive. Uncanny valley and all that jazz.

dan107 wrote...

Unless she happens to be a skan.. I'm sorry, "sexually empowered female" like Isabela. Then said Internet Females jump to her defense for some reason, in spite of the fact that she's prancing about in a mini-skirt and a thong.

Oh, yeah, appreciation of ones sexual drive is totally skanky.
Honestly. Which century are you from?

[mellifera]

dan107 wrote...

yukidama wrote...

dan107 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

dan107 wrote...

HighlandBerserkr wrote...

For gods sakes people shut up and make your own damn game, there i did it for you Bioware, she looks fine, by the Maker SHUT UP!

Have a drink. It'll help you feel better. Barring that, jam your fingers in a doorway. It'll stop you from posting.

TeenZombie wrote...

HighlandBerserkr wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Russalka wrote...

The second, more stable and pleasant topic got locked.
This one cannot be redeemed. What are the Isabela fans going to do now?

I was just thinking of politely asking Stanley Woo to allow a positive Isabela support thread to be created. 

The "Internet Male" quotient is way too high in this thread to bring it back to constructive discussion.

Hey now, i am a Man and i am trying to deter all these fools

Oh, I'm not talking about all guys...Internet Males are a very specific phenomenon.  It's nothing personal. 

So everyone that dares criticize a blatantly ugly character has to be a loser doing it for attention? What about Internet Females who seem to take it as a personal insult whenever there is a remotely attractive female character in a game? Lol. Bunch of sexist hypocrites.

This is only true if your definition of 'remotely attractive' is 'largely uncovered by clothing and with boobs that are bigger than her head.' If that's the case, then yeah, you're completely correct, I suppose.

Unless she happens to be a skan.. I'm sorry, "sexually empowered female" like Isabela. Then said Internet Females jump to her defense for some reason, in spite of the fact that she's prancing about in a mini-skirt and a thong.

I would respond to this but you have consistently proven yourself to be more thickheaded than a pachycephalosaurus so in lieu of a reply I shall just

Pachycephalosaurus? Really? Of all the analogies you could've gone with, that's the one you picked? To be honest I'm a little flattered that someone busted out the dictionary just to try and insult little old me.

Actually, I really liked dinosaurs as a kid. These things stay with you 

[nuclearpengu1nn]

the girl looks like shes from Rivain or something

but yea unless bioware say its Isabella i wouldn't worry about

[John Epler]

Alright.



This thread is now sufficiently off-topic. Please feel free to start it again - without the discussions of off-topic, real-world issues and without the personal attacks.



Locking.

[Revan312]

yukidama wrote...

Nowhere did I ever say that it was wrong for a character to have her chest showing, or for her to be wearing a miniskirt with her cheeks hanging out. If that's what she wants to wear, fine. Appreciation of female bodies is not the issue here as much as saying that her worth is solely based on her body and face being up to their standards.

And the woman in my icon happens to be a dwarf as well, I can only imagine the vitriol she'd get if she were an LI.

Then I'm confused, what's the argument at hand? Do you just hate when people nitpick a character's look? I just don't see the problem with people voicing their dislike of a visual characteristic in a game, character or environment. Ya, a lot of people go way overboard with their comments, but imo that's what makes the internet fun,