135 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

I have to say I'm enjoying the Miranda vs. Jack debate. One of the things that attracts me to Miranda is that she is a reasonably stable woman who doesn't need Shep. The flipside is that I hold her to a higher standard. Jack started it, but "Clearly, you were a mistake" is a vile thing to say. Miranda can clearly control herself when she wants too, and therefore gets a higher share of the blame.

[Pacifien]

jtav wrote...
I have to say I'm enjoying the Miranda vs. Jack debate. One of the things that attracts me to Miranda is that she is a reasonably stable woman who doesn't need Shep. The flipside is that I hold her to a higher standard. Jack started it, but "Clearly, you were a mistake" is a vile thing to say. Miranda can clearly control herself when she wants too, and therefore gets a higher share of the blame.

Memories of the younger sibling/older sibling arguments. Younger sibling started it! Why are you punishing me?! Because, older sibling, you should know better and need to set the example.

Which always made this younger sibling smirk.

[achwas]

Mondo47 wrote...
Though if that's not the case, can I have a execution button for Miranda then then the moment she declares she's Shepard's second in command? Because she isn't my Shepard's second in command just because she's Timmy's enabler, Garrus is (because I like Garrus more, obviously). I'm sure I could swing that as attempted mutiny in a report, and TIM does keep saying that this is Shepard's mission to control as he/she sees fit... bet she wishes that control chip had been inserted now, eh?

Simply because we cannot get rid of any of the companions ? And both Miranda and Jack are mandatory recruitments. *shrug*
Either blow the loyalty missions, or side (non-paragon/-renegade) with Jack in the catfight, which is in effect "I don't value your paperwork anyway and could care less about your backers" in disguise. Vice versa for Jack.

"Please pick up your papers on  the way out"

Shame the devs did not leave the Mordin/Grunt loyalty conflict implemented, that might have been equally violent and for some hard to pick sides in. The Tali/Legion one is too easy to resolve, since both are optional recruitments (since Legion can simply be sold off, even if his mission is mandatory to finish), and you Tali's LM is one of the... easiest to fail on purpose. Plus, you have to sympathize with the Quarians or the Geth, far more difficult to relate too than abuse.

But you touched a good point there mondo - why can't we choose our own XO, second in command or whatever we wanna call him/her/it ?
And why, if control chips are "available" - now that would be a really good reason for Shepard to blow up Cerberus if Miranda wasn't just kidding back at the waystation, and I took it in that vein - why didn't Cerberus implant these in other key individuals ?  Well, besides in Jacob obviously^^

Modifié par achwas, 28 octobre 2010 - 02:32 .

[Caihn]

I think Miranda controlled herself when she said to Jack she's a mistake, because she could have been much harsher (and my Shepard would approve).

[Mondo47]

This thought about losing squadmates beyond a lack of loyalty is an interesting one... it certainly would have made the Suicide Mission much more deadly and fraught with peril than it is already. I mean, it takes more effort to kill everyone than it does to save everyone...

Something to ponder at the very least. Apologies for the digression from the main topic there, guys and gals

[Ieldra]

Pacifien wrote...

jtav wrote...
I have to say I'm enjoying the Miranda vs. Jack debate. One of the things that attracts me to Miranda is that she is a reasonably stable woman who doesn't need Shep. The flipside is that I hold her to a higher standard. Jack started it, but "Clearly, you were a mistake" is a vile thing to say. Miranda can clearly control herself when she wants too, and therefore gets a higher share of the blame.

Memories of the younger sibling/older sibling arguments. Younger sibling started it! Why are you punishing me?! Because, older sibling, you should know better and need to set the example.

Which always made this younger sibling smirk.

And this older one angry. I do not side with Jack. I can't condone her behaviour, even though once started, Miranda has used the bigger stick and could have done more to defuse the situation. Anyway, while Miranda should have tried, I don't think an attempt to defuse it would have worked short of giving in to Jack's demand, which I don't think Miranda can reasonably be expected to do if confronted like this.

[achwas]

Mondo47 wrote...
This thought about losing squadmates beyond a lack of loyalty is an interesting one... it certainly would have made the Suicide Mission much more deadly and fraught with peril than it is already. I mean, it takes more effort to kill everyone than it does to save everyone...
Something to ponder at the very least. Apologies for the digression from the main topic there, guys and gals

But it's one of the core problems of the game (yes DA:O did it better, but that's another 'verse ) , and of the Jack vs. Miranda fight. you have to recruit both. And trying to bring out their "best" by making them loyal to you causes the fight.
If you don't care enough for one to try to keep them both civil until at least the end of the SM, why did you actually go out of your way for their loyalty mission from a RP-point of view , expending time, resources and facing mortal danger on their behalf....  ? No LM = no catfight....

What might have been fun would have been something like "Required eight heroes for SM, one Tech, One strong Biotic mandatory, Experienced Sqaud-leaders a bonus, No slackers need apply ! Previous criminal record not an obstacle !" and leave the player to pick and train his "final eight" from those of the twelve available for recruiting.

Ieldra2 wrote...
......Anyway, while Miranda
should have tried, I don't think an attempt to defuse it would have
worked short of giving in to Jack's demand, which I don't think Miranda
can reasonably be expected to do if confronted like this.

Hmm separate them with a gardenhose - or something similar, non-violent and hopefully with little aftershock ? Liara's stasis field might come in handy... Then have separate talks (sternly or understanding, your pick ) with each on her own once they have chilled a bit , trying to find an acceptable compromise ?
Not dramatic enough, I guess

Modifié par achwas, 28 octobre 2010 - 03:00 .

[Mondo47]

achwas wrote...

Not dramatic enough, I guess

I think that's it exactly. Everyone loves a conflict. If I ever have to side with one of them though, I side with Jack and then appeal to Miranda's better nature later (I've only had to do it twice thus far in all my playthroughs); logic dictates I keep my whole crew functional, and the argument of expecting Miranda to be the bigger woman is completely in line with my belief that Jack requires either (Renegade) mollycoddling to ensure she destroys what we want her to destroy or (Paragon) Jack needs nurturing into a real human being before she can be expected to act like an adult all the time - she's suffered too much to expect more of her.

[tonnactus]

achwas wrote...

The vid logs themselves, never meant as a vindication, state how far the scientists on site knew they were acting in violation of TIMs orders : "If we get results he won't care what we did." "But if he knew..." (

Not this lame excuse again.Its getting old. A leader have to know and prevent such things,especially regarding that this wasnt the first cell doing such things. Either the illusive man is a incompetent idiot as a leader or he didnt really care,as long
results were produced.Either way, its of course cerberus who is to blame for this.

[TwistedComplex]

Are people actually arguing over this? Miranda AND Jack are both awful and annoying, just do yourselves a favor and get them both killed so you can have a bro-squad

[Barrendall]

TwistedComplex wrote...

Are people actually arguing over this? Miranda AND Jack are both awful and annoying, just do yourselves a favor and get them both killed so you can have a bro-squad

umm...no.  To do what you are suggesting means wasting 2 valuable resources that you can use towards your end agenda.  I would rather use my brain and diffuse the situation, than just blowing both of them away and therefore gimping yourself.  My Shepard isn't a sociopath.  There are better ways around problems than murdering people that annoy him.

P.S.  Just to clarify, I do understand your position because I made that decision with Zevran in DA:O and not only did I lose out on the Assassin Tree my first couple of play throughs it made some decisions that I made later in the game very hypocritical.

Modifié par Barrendall111, 02 novembre 2010 - 06:33 .