244 réponses à ce sujet

[wizardryforever]

Link: social.bioware.com/877716/polls/12092/

Basically, I was trying to determine how many people rate the importance of gameplay vs. story in ME2 (or any game really).  I'd love to hear reasoning behind people's choices too.

[Nightwriter]

Well I don't think there's much point in telling people which side I'm on.

Isn't it weird? Pre-ME2, I'd have just voted "story is slightly more important than gameplay" because I want attention to be given to both.

Post-ME2, I vote "story is much more important than gameplay". Think I'm overcompensating or something?

[Christmas Ape]

As soon as someone can prove to me that there's a giant bell in the Bioware offices, and that they ring it when it is time for all developers and writers to switch from gameplay to story, I will consider this a valid dichotomy.

As it stands, gameplay is easy to make smoother as technology improves; narrative is quite subjective. One man's confused mess is another's unreliable narrator, one woman's disjointed jumble of side quests is another's series of vignettes.

[wizardryforever]

Nightwriter wrote...

Isn't it weird? Pre-ME2, I'd have just voted "story is slightly more important than gameplay" because I want attention to be given to both.

Post-ME2, I vote "story is much more important than gameplay". Think I'm overcompensating or something?

I don't think so, if you were, you'd have picked the "Gameplay? What gameplay?" option.

But in all seriousness I chose story is slightly more important because gameplay makes a game fun, but story brings me back to play it all over again.  It's a very close comparison for me.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

At the point that ME2's gameplay is at, the story needs much more attention between the two.

[Nightwriter]

I hate having to choose. Story is more important but I shouldn't have to say so, you know?

So think about this: how many people do you think were working on ME2's gameplay/graphics/etc, and how many do you think were working on actual story?

[atheelogos]

Story is slightly more important than gameplay.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Gameplay. No matter if the story is to be considered a masterpiece, I won't play it if the game controls like a brick.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 26 octobre 2010 - 09:21 .

[Collider]

Nightwriter wrote...

I hate having to choose. Story is more important but I shouldn't have to say so, you know?

So think about this: how many people do you think were working on ME2's gameplay/graphics/etc, and how many do you think were working on actual story?

Realistically there are going to be more people working on gameplay and graphics etc. Realistically the amount of people working on the story is probably far less. Bioware is actually one of the few studios that puts so much emphasis on the writers and the story. A lot of other studios have people who are doing other things for the game (graphics, sound, etc) write some of the story - meaning people who aren't necessarily specialized, or they call in temporary writers for the story.

[wizardryforever]

Nightwriter wrote...

I hate having to choose. Story is more important but I shouldn't have to say so, you know?

Well of course, ideally we would have both, and there are games out there that do this.  But the question is designed to make you consider what makes a game a good one?  Is it the story or the gameplay?  Will you play a game with good story but crappy gameplay?  How about vice-versa?  That's what I was aiming for.

So think about this: how many people do you think were working on ME2's gameplay/graphics/etc, and how many do you think were working on actual story?

I have no idea, mostly because I have no clue how many employees Bioware has.  I would say that in any modern video game, the animators and game designers are going to have more people working on them simply because the technical aspect of making modern games is monolithic.  This will make almost any writing staff seem miniscule in comparision, even if they write a superb story.  I'm not sure numbers can completely explain this.

[Collider]

I have no idea, mostly because I have no clue how many employees Bioware has. I would say that in any modern video game, the animators and game designers are going to have more people working on them simply because the technical aspect of making modern games is monolithic. This will make almost any writing staff seem miniscule in comparision, even if they write a superb story. I'm not sure numbers can completely explain this.

Yep. I heard that Bioware hired a whole team just to work on facial expressions.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

At face value, if I want story I've got 4 other options:



Book

Movie

Audio

Theatre



If I want gameplay, can only go to videogames... so Gameplay ultimately comes first.

[Christmas Ape]

Collider wrote...

I have no idea, mostly because I have no clue how many employees Bioware has. I would say that in any modern video game, the animators and game designers are going to have more people working on them simply because the technical aspect of making modern games is monolithic. This will make almost any writing staff seem miniscule in comparision, even if they write a superb story. I'm not sure numbers can completely explain this.

Yep. I heard that Bioware hired a whole team just to work on facial expressions.

Not surprising; it's not merely a Bioware strength they're redonkulously complex.

[SimonTheFrog]

Thing is: if the gameplay is broken, then even a good story won't help anyone. But i'm kinda hoping that some basics about gameplay can be viewed as common sense. For example that you offer different difficulties or that you let the player save freely or have many savepoints. That all weapons and all powers are actually helping in combat, even if not all in the same way on each opponent. Stuff like that.

But we gamers are used to have crappy stories or basically just orders to randomly kill mobs and flip switches (while dramatic music in the background makes up for non-existing tension from the story itself).

So, if we finally get a game in our hands, claws, tentacles or whatever that does have a well-thought background and some interesting subjects the NPC's talk about, its very very refreshing. Still, gameplay is more important overall!



But! I'm so happy about all the work BioWare has put into the story and the background lore sofar, that it would really be a shame to ruin this with strange compromises. Therefore, in this case i vote for story (hoping that the gameplay stays somewhere in the area of ME1/ME2).

[Nightwriter]

I suppose I see it a bit like a play.

The writers are the playwright and dictate absolutely everything that is happening on stage, every character and every scene.

The animators and gameplay designers are the stage hands that make sure these scenes come across to you well, colorfully, engagingly, effectively.

The best damn stage hands, props and stage equipment in the world cannot make a bad play good if what's going on on stage is simply not written well. A bad play is a bad play.

The best damn script in the entire world can't affect audiences if it's done with two-bit equipment and ridiculous props that utterly fail to immerse the audience in any way whatsoever.

[dgumb]

"If a game has a good story but bad gameplay, I probably won't finish the game. If it has a bad story, but good gameplay I'll probably finish the game.

If it has bad story and bad gameplay, then it just sucks."

Also, as someone who worked in "the industry" for 10 years or so in various positions I'd say that the team for a single project usually consists mostly of coders and artists, with one main writer, and maybe a few supporting writers.

But all design decisions are ultimately up to the producer or executive producer.

Modifié par dgumb, 26 octobre 2010 - 10:06 .

[dgumb]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

At face value, if I want story I've got 4 other options:

Book
Movie
Audio
Theatre

If I want gameplay, can only go to videogames... so Gameplay ultimately comes first.

Agree completely.

[kraidy1117]

Story. While mE2 had beter gameplay, I rather play ME because it's story, the character dev and the characters where much better then ME2. he only thing ME2 has that could compete with ME is LotSB and some characters.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

dgumb wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

At face value, if I want story I've got 4 other options:

Book
Movie
Audio
Theatre

If I want gameplay, can only go to videogames... so Gameplay ultimately comes first.

Agree completely.

But only a video game can present a story in an interactive (spelling?) way. Sure some books or movies proberly have multiple paths but they are pretty rare.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 26 octobre 2010 - 10:07 .

[Iakus]

wizardryforever wrote...

Link: social.bioware.com/877716/polls/12092/

Basically, I was trying to determine how many people rate the importance of gameplay vs. story in ME2 (or any game really).  I'd love to hear reasoning behind people's choices too.

Gameplay is important, but story is much, much more.  Particularly for anything calling itself an rpg (or rpg-hybrid)

A game that plays well but has little or no story is boring.  I'll forgive a lot of gameplay problems if it can tell an interesting tale.

[DarthCaine]

Presentation for me. While ME1 had the better main quest, ME2 had better characters, better soundtrack, better dialogue, better gameplay, better cinematics, better locations etc etc. The main quest is the ONLY thing that's better in ME1

[kraidy1117]

Collider wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I hate having to choose. Story is more important but I shouldn't have to say so, you know?

So think about this: how many people do you think were working on ME2's gameplay/graphics/etc, and how many do you think were working on actual story?

Realistically there are going to be more people working on gameplay and graphics etc. Realistically the amount of people working on the story is probably far less. Bioware is actually one of the few studios that puts so much emphasis on the writers and the story. A lot of other studios have people who are doing other things for the game (graphics, sound, etc) write some of the story - meaning people who aren't necessarily specialized, or they call in temporary writers for the story.

Then what the hell hapen to ME2's writing?

[DarthCaine]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Then what the hell hapen to ME2's writing?

You're the most indescisive forumite ever.

At first you love Miranda, then you love Liara.
First you hate Tali, then you love Tali.
First you say ME2>ME1, then you say the opposite.

What's WRONG with you ?

Modifié par DarthCaine, 26 octobre 2010 - 10:21 .

[Nightwriter]

Lizardviking wrote...

dgumb wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

At face value, if I want story I've got 4 other options:

Book
Movie
Audio
Theatre

If I want gameplay, can only go to videogames... so Gameplay ultimately comes first.

Agree completely.

But only a video game can present a story in an interactive (spelling?) way. Sure some books or movies proberly have multiple paths but they are pretty rare.

I want videogames to be respected as creative mediums on the same level as books, movies and plays, purely because I think the idea of interactive storytelling is so phenomenal.

I also want to get rid of this stigma that videogames are just for kids who want to screw around and kill people for fun.

[SSV Enterprise]

Because ME is a BioWare game, which have always focused on story and characters, I voted "Story is much more important". However, that does not make gameplay irrelevant. I much appreciated the varied gameplay effects added to Mass Effect 2, like the bullet-time, charge, and cloaking. The streamlined inventory also did much to remove the tedium of Mass Effect 1's gameplay.

HOWEVER, when it comes to games in general- it really depends on the game.  Would someone really make the argument that story needs to be focused on more than gameplay in FIFA 2011 or Madden 2011?  Other times, the story just serves as a backdrop for some very entertaining gameplay situations (ex. Mario & Zelda).  Are these games worse off for the low amount of story, dialogue, and cinematic cutscenes when compared to stuff like Mass Effect 2 or, say, Heavy Rain?  No, because the purpose of the games are to provide you with fun situations to figure a way through.  As I said, it depends on the game.

Modifié par SSV Enterprise, 26 octobre 2010 - 10:21 .