244 réponses à ce sujet

[Big I]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

At face value, if I want story I've got 4 other options:

Book
Movie
Audio
Theatre

If I want gameplay, can only go to videogames... so Gameplay ultimately comes first.

To me the game is a different way of telling a story, just like movies and books use different techniques to do so. That's what makes it interesting for me. I don't play it to see how many yellow rings I can get, or to see if I can get the fastest lap time. I play for the story.

[kraidy1117]

DarthCaine wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Then what the hell hapen to ME2's writing?

You're the most indescisive forumite ever.

At first you love Miranda, then you love Liara.
First you hate Tali, then you love Tali.
First you say ME2>ME1, then you say the opposite.

What's WRONG with you ?

You can love both characters.

I still don't like Tali, I am friends with some of the fans tho

I did prefer ME2 when it first came out, but after playing it more and more, and playing ME, ME is much more enjoyable.

[Soul Reaver]

DarthCaine wrote...

Presentation for me. While ME1 had the better main quest, ME2 had better characters, better soundtrack, better dialogue, better gameplay, better cinematics, better locations etc etc. The main quest is the ONLY thing that's better in ME1

This

[Lunatic LK47]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Gameplay. No matter if the story is to be considered a masterpiece, I won't play it if the game controls like a brick.

This. Namco's Breakdown is a perfect example of a problematic game.

[DarthCaine]

kraidy1117 wrote...

You can love both characters.

I still don't like Tali, I am friends with some of the fans tho

I did prefer ME2 when it first came out, but after playing it more and more, and playing ME, ME is much more enjoyable.

Funny, playing ME1 again after ME2 made me realize just how average ME1 is.

I remember when you argued with me explaining ME2's plot holes and defending it's writing

[Nightwriter]

BioWare games are different. If this was GTA I'd say gameplay is better. But it's not. BioWare games are different.

ESPECIALLY a BioWare game like ME2 which immediately follows a game that sets a standard for strong story.

Then, if I don't have plot, everything falls apart for me. Gameplay is meaningless. Like using gorgeous font to tell a weak story.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

LookingGlass93 wrote...
To me the game is a different way of telling a story, just like movies and books use different techniques to do so. That's what makes it interesting for me. I don't play it to see how many yellow rings I can get, or to see if I can get the fastest lap time. I play for the story.

Interactive story-driven games are great too... but that's only a few of the type of games out there that are fun to play.  The goal of "play"ing a game is to "play" it.  If that falters, the rest may never be experienced.

Story may be epic... but if everything else fails I would personally not have the patience for it.

If Gameplay is epic while everything else fails... it's still the more likely game I'd find myself playing.

Besides, as far as I'm concerned, if a game is story alone... why call it a game?

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 26 octobre 2010 - 10:34 .

[Iakus]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

To me the game is a different way of telling a story, just like movies and books use different techniques to do so. That's what makes it interesting for me. I don't play it to see how many yellow rings I can get, or to see if I can get the fastest lap time. I play for the story.

Indeed.

It's an form of interactive story, where the listener can, to a certain degree, affect the story being told.  You read a book, and imagine being in the story, wondering what you would do in a given situation.  You play a game, and  become the hero, getting to choose what to do in that situation.

But if the story is incoherant, lacking focus or continuity.  Or the characters are dull or out of place, the plot thin, Then it doesn't matter how sturdy the binding is, how high quality the paper, or how beautiful the illustrations how how good the author's grammar is.  Heck it doesn't matter how many top-tier book reviewers say this is the best book of all time. 

[Therion942]

I appreciate the scientific approach here wizardry, but you can't just boil things down to their general parts like this, concessions really need to be made for what sort of game is being presented. If you were to ask me what would be more important in a Quake sequel or a Call of Duty sequel, I'm going to tell you gameplay every time. However, if you were to ask me what would be more important in an Arcanum, Witcher, Dragon Age or any Western RPG sequel I'd tell you story should come first. I would love to see the day were each aspect is treated with the respect it deserves though, where gameplay is no longer made around the story by designers, but writers working alongside designers to make the story work in contention with the gameplay.

[wizardryforever]

Look at it this way.  Say you have really bad eyesight, and you need glasses in order to read.  Now let's say the game is a book, and gameplay is your glasses.  If you have really poor glasses, you will struggle to read (ie experience) the story, and it will be difficult to get into the story given how hard it is to read it.  Now imagine you replace those glasses with a pair that lets you see with crystal clarity.  Suddenly the story (no matter its quality) seems better, because you don't have to really work to enjoy it.

Bad gameplay can hinder your experience of a game's story the same way a bad pair of glasses can hinder your experience of a book's story.  That's the way I view it.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Nightwriter wrote...
I want videogames to be respected as creative mediums on the same level as books, movies and plays, purely because I think the idea of interactive storytelling is so phenomenal.

I also want to get rid of this stigma that videogames are just for kids who want to screw around and kill people for fun.

This is something I almost hate saying but the truth of the matter is that games will never achieve the level of movies and text narratives (at least not for a long while).  Games are by their nature short-term entertainment experiences and aren't meant to stand on their own legs for very long.  In 100 years, the quality of a film or book may retain its brilliance... whereas a game would be remembered as jaw-dropping only by those who played it then (console exclusives also don't help this).  The production quality (as time goes on) would also be much higher in a medium where quality is necessary to be a highly respected game.  For books, text is text no matter where it goes.  Films also capture an era and aren't expected to change.  Games, on the other hand, require constant advances to stay relevant... making previous systems and titles largely obsolete.

Couldn't really slap a new cover on an old game, reprint it, and sell it to next gen console owners and expect them to pay standard "new game" pricing for it.


P.S.  This is NOT to say though that games aren't an Art Form... because they are.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 26 octobre 2010 - 10:55 .

[R-Taco]

Gameplay is the more important of the two, but with a game like Mass Effect there's an important part that's a little of both.

See, I don't care if the story is bland, but I'll love it the more interactive it is. A linear game with a masterpiece plot could never beat a game with a mediocre-but-determined-by-the-player plot.  For me, anyway.

Modifié par R-Taco, 26 octobre 2010 - 10:52 .

[Therion942]

Frankly I don't see it that way. If the story is gripping, engaging enough then I can ignore the gameplay all together because I'm intrigued. You've set my mind in motion I am, as the popular internet meme states "Interested in your points of view and would like to subscribe to your newsletter". If the gameplay's good that comes as a bonus, if it's not then then it would still be no detriment to me personally. RPGs, as limited as they are in VG format, are there to tell a story that you the player takes part in shaping, not get the highest KDR, not compare gamerscores.

[Nightwriter]

Oh, no, Gogeta, not for a long long time, but I see it as one of those things you should really push for even though the end isn't in sight. You can't make games equal to films in level of respect, but you can raise the bar of videogames, and BioWare does that.

I think the most important thing is to make people aware games aren't just for children, and I think that is an achievable goal.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Nightwriter wrote...

Oh, no, Gogeta, not for a long long time, but I see it as one of those things you should really push for even though the end isn't in sight. You can't make games equal to films in level of respect, but you can raise the bar of videogames, and BioWare does that.

I think the most important thing is to make people aware games aren't just for children, and I think that is an achievable goal.

Oh I definitely agree with you there.  I also think that now gaming is an accepted medium for adults culturally.  It didn't use to be, but I honestly haven't run into anyone who didn't respect it unless they never seriously tried to play one themselves.



Regarding gameplay vs story though, if I heard a game had a great story but bad gameplay, I'd watch a playthrough of it instead of wasting money renting or buying it.  Games cost not just time, but money.. especially if it leans toward the side of long, sweeping narratives.  So I may just have a lower tolerance level when it comes to games... If I'm not having fun by a certain point I can't stick with it... no matter how great the story may have been later on (or even had the potential of being).

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 26 octobre 2010 - 11:05 .

[dgumb]

Nightwriter wrote...

Oh, no, Gogeta, not for a long long time, but I see it as one of those things you should really push for even though the end isn't in sight. You can't make games equal to films in level of respect, but you can raise the bar of videogames, and BioWare does that.

I think the most important thing is to make people aware games aren't just for children, and I think that is an achievable goal.

I don't know if it's really that far off. For one, you have to remember the relative "newness" of the medium. People of my generation (in their early to mid-thirties) are really the first generation to have grown up around video games their whole lives. I remember the days of pong (barely!), atari, intellivision, and commodore 64.

As the medium matures and people who were born in the nintendo/sega days are reaching middle age, I think that, in general, people will see video games as more than a distraction for children. When we get our first president who can remember playing through final fantasy i, or phantasy star, or whose first childhood hero was mario or sonic, (say in about 10-15 years) I think the stigma of video games being "child's play" will have largely vanished.

Modifié par dgumb, 26 octobre 2010 - 11:07 .

[N7Infernox]

Gameplay and story should be balanced. But then again i might have to lean a tiny bit towards gameplay. I mean hey, it's a videogame. That's what gives the most replay value. If i'm looking for a really good story, I might as well just find myself a good novel.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

I think it already has for the most part (the videogames no longer being considered "child's play").

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 26 octobre 2010 - 11:08 .

[Nightwriter]

Well, dgumb, we're talking about videogames receiving the same level of respect as movies here. That seems like it's going to take a hell of a long time. But seriously, I think if game writers thought they'd be given the same level of respect or acclaim as some famous directors or screenwriters get, you'd see a huge boost in story quality and writing enthusiasm.

[Lunatic LK47]

N7Infernox wrote...

Gameplay and story should be balanced. But then again i might have to lean a tiny bit towards gameplay. I mean hey, it's a videogame. That's what gives the most replay value. If i'm looking for a really good story, I might as well just find myself a good novel.

Too bad half of the novels I want to like make me bored out of my skull because A. I did not know what the series is and continuity order, B. The characters are outright bland, C. The story as a whole is bland, or D. All of the above.

Modifié par Lunatic LK47, 26 octobre 2010 - 11:10 .

[piemanz]

Usually i would rate gameplay over story.But the whole reason i love mass effect so much is the great story and great gameplay, so i would say they are equally important when it comes to ME

I would be quite content with ME2 gameplay in ME3 to be honest, so i guess the story for ME3 is more important for them to work on.

Modifié par piemanz, 26 octobre 2010 - 11:15 .

[Iakus]

wizardryforever wrote...

Look at it this way.  Say you have really bad eyesight, and you need glasses in order to read.  Now let's say the game is a book, and gameplay is your glasses.  If you have really poor glasses, you will struggle to read (ie experience) the story, and it will be difficult to get into the story given how hard it is to read it.  Now imagine you replace those glasses with a pair that lets you see with crystal clarity.  Suddenly the story (no matter its quality) seems better, because you don't have to really work to enjoy it.

Bad gameplay can hinder your experience of a game's story the same way a bad pair of glasses can hinder your experience of a book's story.  That's the way I view it.

As someone who has really bad eyesight and wears glasses, I can definitely answer this:

A pair of prescription glasses is always ideal.  It lets you get the most out of the excperience.  Hoever, if I had to make due with a subpar pair of glasses, or damaged ones, or whatever, I would still try to read the book, regardless.  It is not ideal.  It is not as much fun.  But a good story is worth it.

Gameplay is important.  No arguement.  No doubt.  Fully agree.  It's part of what makes a game fun.  But story, for an rpg at least, is more important.  It's what makes a game worth playing to begin with.

[cachx]

A bit of an unfair question, really. I really don't want to dismiss story, my favorite genre being RPG and all, but  if you don't know already I'm on the gameplay side. No matter how good a story is, I should not have to suffer through shoddy gameplay and bad design to experience a story, that's why my opinion of ME1 is simply 'average'.

Story may be the "brains" of the game, but gameplay is the "soul".

[Throw_this_away]

Simple. BOTH. ME2 is an EPIC game (my #1 all time, and that says a lot) because it has story and gameplay... and both are top notch.



Borderlands - GREAT game for gameplay. Story not so much. But the gameplay carries it.



ME1 - GREAT story. Gameplay is ok, but it is not to ME2 level. Still a great game, but no ME2.

[DPSSOC]

For me it depends on the game. For Mass Effect and RPG's in general I put story first because my goal in playing these games is to immerse myself in the role and bad story ruins this faster than wonky gameplay. For other styles/genres I'm more concerned with the gameplay because my goal is to enjoy digital mayhem. For example God of War could have had the worst story in the world and I wouldn't care because all I'm interested in is grabbing my controller and diving into hacky-slashy fun. On the other hand in ME1 all the gameplay issues didn't bother me because I was able to wrap myself up in the story.



Now my preferred genre is RPG so I'm gonna have to side with story vs gameplay.