244 réponses à ce sujet

[Whatever42]

Equally important. In ME1, the story kept me going past the bad gameplay but it couldn't make it very replayable for me. In ME2, I really enjoyed the gameplay but found the story dragged in the back half until the end so it was fun combat that kept me going. Maybe other gameplay elements (like traditional RPG treasure hunting) could have kept it from dragging but I would prefer a better paced story.

[Il Divo]

wulf3n wrote...

I understand your point, but i don't quite agree with it. Using the Halo reference, Sure it was a great game, even with a strong story, but think how much better it could have been with a great story attached to it? Bungie know this, thats why they've tried with the later games, each one taking a new approach on story telling, and bungie were getting quite close to something spectacular...pity they stopped.

I think you may have missed where I was going with the Halo example. My point is that the story was ultimately irrelevant. Halo could have had the greatest story of all time and it would not have been a better game for it if the gameplay had remained equally separate from the story. Almost all of Halo's story is delivered through cutscenes, something which a movie could ultimately replicate. What makes a video game unique compared to other mediums is interaction; you are not simply a passive observer in the experience.

If someone says to you, what do you prefer in your video games- gameplay or story, then the answer must be gameplay otherwise you would not be playing a video game in the first place. I can string together all of Halo's cut scenes and aside from a few in game voice overs, you now have the rough equivalent of a short movie that delivers the exact same thing as the game.

Compare this to Half-Life 2 or Bioshock. The game is told entirely from your character's perspective to the point where there are no cut scenes. If I tried to convert this style of storytelling into a movie or a novel, you would absolutely lose something in the translation. The story you get might be good, but the experience is ultimately different. This is ultimately what crippled Watchmen as a film. The movie stayed very close to the events of the graphic novel (comic), but it failed to consider the medium of how a comic book delivers an experience.  

What i'm trying to say is story being seperate from gameplay, is only a reality because we accept it as an inevitability. 

I would say it's a reality because most developers don't take full advantage of the medium they are presented with. It is not inevitable, as Half Life and most Bioware/Obsidian rpgs demonstrate. In these types of games, you cannot cut out gameplay without losing an important part of the story. Gameplay=story in these examples and it's what makes video games unique, I would say.

We have to hold developers accountable for poor story telling, if we want the industry to move foward.
Going back to my fps example, if a Blockbuster fps with brilliant AI, a perfect control scheme, well designed levels, came out with only a couple of guns, that were plain and boring, didn't work all the time, sounded wrong, looked wrong, then that developer would get ripped to shreds by critics and gamers alike, yet if theres a bad story, were like oh well, it least it has fun gameplay <_<

And I think this immediately is the problem. All those elements you are describing are what gameplay consists of; your interactions and what you are interacting with, including well designed levels. It is not just shooting things. Dialogue in your typical RPG is gameplay. Anything that involves you (the player) interacting with this alternate world is gameplay.

Modifié par Il Divo, 30 octobre 2010 - 02:01 .

[wizardryforever]

Do note that I'm not really looking for ME2 specific gameplay vs. story gripes.  It's mostly a general gaming question.

Also, the results for the poll as of this moment is the following:

23% said that they are equally important.
25% said that story is slightly more important.
32% said that story is much more important.
5% said that gameplay is irrelevant.
8% said that gameplay is slightly more important.
5% said that gameplay is much more important.
2% said that story is irrelevant.
0-1% said that neither are important.

Judging from the poll, most of the forumites are story junkies to some extent, which is mostly the result I was expecting.

[Nightwriter]

Actually I'm only really a story junkie when it comes to BioWare games.

When it comes to almost all other games I'm a gameplay junkie.

[Kronner]

Gameplay >>> anything else for me.

I'd take great gameplay and ok story over ok gameplay and great story any day and twice on Sundays.

I never play games for their stories. In the end, most game stories are some kind of variation of The Chosen One beating The Bad Guys - it can't compete with a book anyways. People bash ME2 story, but I find it good enough for a game so..

This is also why I never bothered to buy DA:O, while I liked the game and played it for some time with my friends, the gameplay (mainly combat) was boring for me. (and the story is cliché anyways - but that is fine ).

Modifié par Kronner, 02 novembre 2010 - 07:23 .

[Epic777]

I say technical proficiency is more important than the both the gameplay and story combined. If bugs and glitches are too much nothing will save said game

[the_one_54321]

If story was the only thing I wanted I'd watch a good movie instead of playing a game. They are equally important.

[Skyline_Stanza]

A bit of both. If I struggle with the gameplay, then I won't be able to get through the story at a pace that I'd like.



But overall, story. I love Bioware's story-telling capabilities, not matter what others might point out.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

wizardryforever wrote...

Do note that I'm not really looking for ME2 specific gameplay vs. story gripes.  It's mostly a general gaming question.

Also, the results for the poll as of this moment is the following:

23% said that they are equally important.
25% said that story is slightly more important.
32% said that story is much more important.
5% said that gameplay is irrelevant.
8% said that gameplay is slightly more important.
5% said that gameplay is much more important.
2% said that story is irrelevant.
0-1% said that neither are important.

Judging from the poll, most of the forumites are story junkies to some extent, which is mostly the result I was expecting.

I voted for story ONLY in relation to the Mass Effect series.  Mass Effect 2 had great combat/gameplay that doesn't need as much focus as crafting a story the closes out the trilogy.

But a game is a game because you play it... so that HAS to come first.

[Felene]

Heavily depend on the type of game, in a RPG I prefer story, in a FPS/RTS I prefer gameplay.

[schneeland]

Well, I'd say gameplay is never unimportant. If gameplay is crappy, then story won't help. On the other hand: What's the purpose of a RPG without a proper story? You'll quickly end up in a Diablo-like game that causes your brain to die from starvation while your fingers strain.



So I guess, I basically agree with Felene. In the end, in an FPS-game the reasons why you place bullets in somebodies head are most exchangeable.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Story is important to the game as well as character development for instance Advent Rising I first loaded this game up was like wow the graphics suck but lets hold off turning it off until I see the story and would you know it I love the story line in the game I wish it had a sequel.



Final Fantasy 7 had a great story and very compelling characters and great character development would it stand up in todays graphics no but I'll play it because the story is great.



Metal Gear Solid is another the first one great story and character development the rest of the series has gone down hill.



You can even watch silent movies if the story and characters are good that's why people still talk about old movies great story and characters if the story is lame and forgettable then so is the game even if the graphics are cool its just pretty window dressings on a shabby house.

[Zaknaberrnon]

Nightwriter wrote...

I want videogames to be respected as creative mediums on the same level as books, movies and plays, purely because I think the idea of interactive storytelling is so phenomenal.

I also want to get rid of this stigma that videogames are just for kids who want to screw around and kill people for fun.

A-F******-MEN

"You are acting out certain elements of the play and you are
contributing to the events that occur and adding a creative element of
your own," Smith said. "That's what makes them [videogames] different and in many
ways wonderful."
-Paul M. Smith, Supreme Court's violent video game case.

THIS IS WHY I GAME.

Modifié par Zaknaberrnon, 02 novembre 2010 - 11:30 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

Yeah but now government is trying to say games have no creative value and want to regulate them if the newly appointed puppets in the Supreme Court get their hands on it they'll definitely side w/ the government and say they should be regulated which is complete and other crap once they say OK to that they'll regulate all media games all now have to try even harder to show they're more then mindless shooters and killing people for fun though by Japanese standards of killing for fun we're quite tame.



I agree games are like interactive plays its just the player gets to make choices to effect its tones.

[Mallissin]

Neither are important/Other

0%(1 votes)

Hark! There be a troll in our midst, keep thee whits about you.



Oh, and I want the elevator rides back or at least more DA:O style banter.

[-Skorpious-]

Put simply, I play Mass Effect for the content of it's plot/story. That's not to say that the gameplay is not fun nor important, but rather that I would prefer if Bioware devoted more time improving story quality over tweaking gameplay when it comes time to prioritize specific aspects of the development process.

[Moiaussi]

Il Divo wrote...

I think you may have missed where I was going with the Halo example. My point is that the story was ultimately irrelevant. Halo could have had the greatest story of all time and it would not have been a better game for it if the gameplay had remained equally separate from the story. Almost all of Halo's story is delivered through cutscenes, something which a movie could ultimately replicate. What makes a video game unique compared to other mediums is interaction; you are not simply a passive observer in the experience.

If someone says to you, what do you prefer in your video games- gameplay or story, then the answer must be gameplay otherwise you would not be playing a video game in the first place. I can string together all of Halo's cut scenes and aside from a few in game voice overs, you now have the rough equivalent of a short movie that delivers the exact same thing as the game.

 
Even there, though, if you had just a single room with increasingly challeging target practice, no plot, no reason to be there other than the challenge of the targets, would it be as good a game as one that might be a little less challenging, but does have the cut scenes? How about rather than one that has interactive dialogue and promises to be at least somewhat dynamic?

Do as many people play paintball (RL tactical gameplay) as watch movies (pure story, no game)?


Compare this to Half-Life 2 or Bioshock. The game is told entirely from your character's perspective to the point where there are no cut scenes. If I tried to convert this style of storytelling into a movie or a novel, you would absolutely lose something in the translation. The story you get might be good, but the experience is ultimately different. This is ultimately what crippled Watchmen as a film. The movie stayed very close to the events of the graphic novel (comic), but it failed to consider the medium of how a comic book delivers an experience.  

And I think this immediately is the problem. All those elements you are describing are what gameplay consists of; your interactions and what you are interacting with, including well designed levels. It is not just shooting things. Dialogue in your typical RPG is gameplay. Anything that involves you (the player) interacting with this alternate world is gameplay.

While that is true, gameplay in this context seems to be treated as 'non-dialogue gameplay.'

[LordPennlocke]

Story is slightly more important than gameplay for me.

A good game is one that has a great story as well as decent gameplay. No point in playing something that can frustrate one with shoddy controls or UIs.



When I want something with more gameplay than story I'll play a shooter like CoD.

Mass Effect does both well enough, though ME2 leaned slightly more towards gameplay than story, didn't bother me in the slightest.

[MuteSpeech]

This question has many layers for a suitable answer. Do you consider Mass Effect to be an FPS or an RPG, firstly? If you consider it an FPS than in many regards gameplay > story, as can be evidenced by other FPS games selling well on their gameplay alone while the story is either lacking, or contrived. If you consider the game an RPG then story would trump gameplay in a lot of areas.

[StarcloudSWG]

Story is important, very. If the story is poor it doesn't matter how good the gameplay is, I won't replay it or I won't buy it in the first place. That's the bottom line.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Great story and decent gameplay can make masterpieces... but Great gameplay and no story also make masterpieces. Gameplay seems to still be the dominant constant in the VG universe.

[PD ORTA]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Gameplay. No matter if the story is to be considered a masterpiece, I won't play it if the game controls like a brick.

I agree with this. being a gamer in my 30's I've been playing games since before games had stories. Which is why i've alway's valued actual gameplay over story. I can play a game with crap a story but great gameplay, I can't play a game with great story and crap gameplay.

[Kyle Shepard]

I say even balance, without game-play, its not a very good game, without a storyline, no one understands what's going on.

[Lumikki]

Yeah, good story is important to make game interesting, but without good gameplay game just sucks. So, I think, both are equal important.