For most of the squad mates in ME Shepard has some sort of way to not befriending them.
Ashley = You don't have to be friends. She's also optional (Virmire)
Kaidan = You don't have to be friends. He's also optional (Virmire)
Tali = You don't have to be friends. She's also optional (Don't go to Haestrom)
Wrex = You don't have to be friends. He's also optional (Virmire)
Miranda = You don't have to be friends.
Jacob = You don't have to be friends.
Grunt = You don't have to be friends. He's also optional (Don't open tank)
Jack = You don't have to be friends (not like you can anyway! LOL)
Thane = You don't have to be friends. He's also optional (Don't do Illium quest)
Samara/Morinth = You don't have to be friends. She's also optional (Don't do Illium quest/Don't side with one or other)
Legion = You don't have to be friends. He's also optional (Dont reactivate)
Zaeed = You don't have to be friends. He's also optional (DLC)
Kasumi = You don't have to be friends. She's also optional (DLC)
Now in ME1 one doesn't have to recruit Garrus. Though the default game in ME2 assumes you did.
But
ME2? You do. And I noticed there wasn't really anyway to be mean to
Garrus or say that you aren't friends with him. A lot of the
conversations are very very buddy buddy. The worst thing you can do is
say that you don't have time to go to the Citadel to track down Sidonis.
That's about it.
In ME1 you can be mean to Liara, though you still have to recruit her.
She also still saves Shepard's
body even if you didn't say a word to her on the Normandy.
I haven't played LotSB, but is there is any way not to befriend Liara there? I doubt there is.
Liara also comes off as the most important squad mate period in the series. She can't die, you have to recruit her, she provides the information that leads to Ilos (which means Shepard can save the galaxy), she saves Shepard's body (which means Shepard is there to save the galaxy again), she helps take down the Shadow Broker, and she becomes the most powerful information broker in the entire galaxy. So in that context you may say that Liara is the trademark character of Mass Effect (besides Shepard). She even had her own comic book.
The
thread is not about whether I like Garrus or I like Liara. The question
is, do you think that in the canon, (and if Garrus is alive), Garrus
and Liara are both Shepard's friends? If you think this is true, do you
like it? Dislike it? Should Shepard canonically befriend any squad mate period?
Garrus & Liara = Shepard's canon buddies?
Débuté par
Collider
, oct. 26 2010 10:08
Retour en haut
#2
Posté 26 octobre 2010 - 11:13
Nightwriter
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Yeah, I definitely see them as canon friends, though I know it'll spark some protest.
Like I said in the CDG, I love canon friendships because they're safe for the writers to incorporate into the storytelling.
As soon as you make a friendship optional you limit what the game can safely acknowledge. The game can now no longer assume you're buddies and will now not be able to pile you with awesome funny buddy dialogue.
Garrus and Liara's canon friendships are only at fault because they allowed you to be mean to those characters at some point, yet you're still friends. It's an inconsistency.
Like I said in the CDG, I love canon friendships because they're safe for the writers to incorporate into the storytelling.
As soon as you make a friendship optional you limit what the game can safely acknowledge. The game can now no longer assume you're buddies and will now not be able to pile you with awesome funny buddy dialogue.
Garrus and Liara's canon friendships are only at fault because they allowed you to be mean to those characters at some point, yet you're still friends. It's an inconsistency.
#3
Posté 26 octobre 2010 - 11:19
jlb524
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Yeah, it's difficult to imagine my Shepard not being friendly with these too...it's pretty much impossible to role play the relationship any other way than friendly. With most other, I can RP an unfriendly relationship if I want (though, I don't).
I have no problem with this, as I'm cool with both characters.
I don't think so...friends are mean to friends, but they can get over it...it's not all sunshine and bunnies.
I have no problem with this, as I'm cool with both characters.
Nightwriter wrote...
Garrus and Liara's canon friendships are only at fault because they allowed you to be mean to those characters at some point, yet you're still friends. It's an inconsistency.
I don't think so...friends are mean to friends, but they can get over it...it's not all sunshine and bunnies.
#4
Posté 26 octobre 2010 - 11:26
Mr.BlazenGlazen
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Well for Garrus it seemed that way if you recruited him in ME1. In ME2 even if you didn't recruit him it still seemed like they were friends from the beginning, which is kind of weird but whatever.
Though I'm sorry to say that I wasn't that into Liara until LoftSB. Then I really started to like her.
Though I'm sorry to say that I wasn't that into Liara until LoftSB. Then I really started to like her.
#5
Posté 27 octobre 2010 - 12:37
kglaser
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This is interesting...I'd never thought about it this way. You make a good point.
#6
Posté 27 octobre 2010 - 12:53
Nightwriter
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You mean, you never thought of Garrus or Liara as canonical friends?
But when they're mean, they acknowledge it, you reconcile, there are apologies. At the very least there is an, "Oh, you're being all nice to me all of the sudden?"
In the ME series characters act like you've never been mean to them ever. It's no big deal really, but it would be cool if for once a character hit you with, "Yeah?! Oh yeah?! Remember that thing you said to me that one time?!"
jlb524 wrote...
I don't think so...friends are mean to friends, but they can get over it...it's not all sunshine and bunnies.
But when they're mean, they acknowledge it, you reconcile, there are apologies. At the very least there is an, "Oh, you're being all nice to me all of the sudden?"
In the ME series characters act like you've never been mean to them ever. It's no big deal really, but it would be cool if for once a character hit you with, "Yeah?! Oh yeah?! Remember that thing you said to me that one time?!"
#7
Posté 27 octobre 2010 - 01:37
Arbalest7
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I'd agree...also those are the only two characters that Shepard has non-player controlled interaction with. Works for me as my Canon has Liara as his girl and Garrus as his bro might be odd to others though. If Wrex survives I would include him, you can tangibly feel the love at Tuchanka.
#8
Posté 27 octobre 2010 - 01:44
Collider
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Mass Effect 2 was pretty bad about porting player decisions from ME1 to ME2.
For example, treating any of the ME1 characters like crap? The game probably didn't even register a lot of this. What I mean by this is that treating Liara or x character meanly probably wasn't even recorded as something that would be ported in the first place. There were no 0s that turned into 1s in the little file that was meant to be analyzed by the second game.
In the same way that the ME2 didn't care about how many times you shot a Geth hopper with your shotgun, because it was probably never recorded to begin with.
So do I blame the characters for acting like Shepard treated them just fine when Shepard could have treated them like trash? Not really or not necessarily. Because Bioware probably never had it recorded in the first place.
For example, treating any of the ME1 characters like crap? The game probably didn't even register a lot of this. What I mean by this is that treating Liara or x character meanly probably wasn't even recorded as something that would be ported in the first place. There were no 0s that turned into 1s in the little file that was meant to be analyzed by the second game.
In the same way that the ME2 didn't care about how many times you shot a Geth hopper with your shotgun, because it was probably never recorded to begin with.
So do I blame the characters for acting like Shepard treated them just fine when Shepard could have treated them like trash? Not really or not necessarily. Because Bioware probably never had it recorded in the first place.
#9
Posté 27 octobre 2010 - 02:34
Saibh
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I assume that Tali, Garrus, and Liara are Shepard's true friends.
However, of all of them, post-LotSB, only Liara feels like Shepard's real friend. She cares about Shepard personally--sometimes it's hard to get past Tali and Garrus not talking to you unless they have something they want out of you, or if you've helped them. She asks about Shepard, cares about her or him even when not romanced, and is loyal to the end.
I'd like to see more conversations in ME3 that don't revolve around being an encyclopedia or fodder for their personal biographies. Rarely Shepard interacts with her or his crew as a friend--mostly as a very genial commander. I want to see more friendly reactions with imported loyal squadmates.
However, of all of them, post-LotSB, only Liara feels like Shepard's real friend. She cares about Shepard personally--sometimes it's hard to get past Tali and Garrus not talking to you unless they have something they want out of you, or if you've helped them. She asks about Shepard, cares about her or him even when not romanced, and is loyal to the end.
I'd like to see more conversations in ME3 that don't revolve around being an encyclopedia or fodder for their personal biographies. Rarely Shepard interacts with her or his crew as a friend--mostly as a very genial commander. I want to see more friendly reactions with imported loyal squadmates.
Modifié par Saibh, 27 octobre 2010 - 02:34 .
#10
Posté 27 octobre 2010 - 04:03
Gokuthegrate
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Liara and Garrus seems to have Shep's back no mater what.
Liara Garrus Tali and maybe Wrex seems to be the most loyal of all the possible squadmates.
Liara Garrus Tali and maybe Wrex seems to be the most loyal of all the possible squadmates.
#11
Posté 27 octobre 2010 - 11:55
LuPho
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Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
Well for Garrus it seemed that way if you recruited him in ME1. In ME2 even if you didn't recruit him it still seemed like they were friends from the beginning, which is kind of weird but whatever.
Though I'm sorry to say that I wasn't that into Liara until LoftSB. Then I really started to like her.
Garrus being friendly even if you didn't recruit him in ME1 isn't all that weird. He hated it when he wasn't able to find the evidence to convict Saren. You got the evidence for him so he is grateful for bringing Saren's betrayal to light, and killing him for it in the end.
Modifié par LuPho, 27 octobre 2010 - 11:56 .
#12
Posté 27 octobre 2010 - 12:01
jlb524
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Nightwriter wrote...
jlb524 wrote...
I don't think so...friends are mean to friends, but they can get over it...it's not all sunshine and bunnies.
But when they're mean, they acknowledge it, you reconcile, there are apologies. At the very least there is an, "Oh, you're being all nice to me all of the sudden?"
In the ME series characters act like you've never been mean to them ever. It's no big deal really, but it would be cool if for once a character hit you with, "Yeah?! Oh yeah?! Remember that thing you said to me that one time?!"
Yeah, that's a problem with all kinds of Mass Effect relationships...not enough dialog, or things just jump from one state to another seemingly too quickly, and you have to fill in the gaps with your own.
#13
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 08:53
thepassingplayer
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jlb524 wrote...
Nightwriter wrote...
jlb524 wrote...
I don't think so...friends are mean to friends, but they can get over it...it's not all sunshine and bunnies.
But when they're mean, they acknowledge it, you reconcile, there are apologies. At the very least there is an, "Oh, you're being all nice to me all of the sudden?"
In the ME series characters act like you've never been mean to them ever. It's no big deal really, but it would be cool if for once a character hit you with, "Yeah?! Oh yeah?! Remember that thing you said to me that one time?!"
Yeah, that's a problem with all kinds of Mass Effect relationships...not enough dialog, or things just jump from one state to another seemingly too quickly, and you have to fill in the gaps with your own.
That would cause a lot of re-loads and wasted time with re-loads and thus annoyed players. Consistancy is just harder to get the more input options the player gets in terms of conversation and character development. It's a trade off, really.
