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[HAL4294]

i know the plot doesnt much change, but can someone tell me the dialogue changes with either bhelen or harrowmont in A Paragon of Her Kind if you are a Dwarf Noble?

[Sarah1281]

[quote] Bhelen: "Well, who would have imagined..." (VO: slightly threatening)

(Female) Bhelen: "My big sister, back from the dead, and calling herself a Grey Warden." (VO: slightly threatening)

(Male) Bhelen: "My big brother, returned from the grave, and with the might of the Grey Wardens behind him." (VO: slightly threatening)

Bhelen: "I could hardly believe it when Vartag said you wished to help me regain the throne." (VO: slightly threatening, skeptical)



TREE 1

1. I just want to stop the Blight. You're my best chance.

Bhelen: "You're right." (VO: approving)

Bhelen: "Harrowmont would bow and dandle you on his knee like a child, but he could never overcome the Assembly's resistance to your treaty." (VO: disdainful, a little jealous)

Bhelen: "This is a time for action, not cultured debate." (VO: passionate and determined)

Bhelen: "We need absolute unity to fight against the fulcrum of true evil." (VO: a dramatic political speech)

*GO TO TREE 3*



2. Why did you do it, Bhelen? What did I ever do to you?

Bhelen: "You'd have acted against me in a heartbeat if I hadn't done it first. The same way you turned everyone in the Assembly against Trian." (VO: angry, hateful)

Bhelen: "The same way our father--may the ancestors bless him--convinced his elder brother to enter a Proving against a convicted murderer." (VO: ironically respectful -- he respects their father for being as underhanded as him)

(IF: Killed_Trian) Bhelen: "The same way you killed Trian the minute he was a threat to you." (VO: sly)

(IF: Framed) Bhelen: "Who do you think gave the murderer the poison to put on his blade?" (VO: sly)

*GO TO TREE 2*





3. Just tell me the truth, did you poison Father? *Go to tree 2, line 4*



4. The throne should belong to an Aeducan.

Bhelen: "You're more pragmatic than I give you credit for." (VO: approving, mocking)

Bhelen: "You're also right. It would weaken all of Orzammar if a Harrowmont took the throne." (VO: scornful)

Bhelen: "Now, Vartag tells me you're here seeking allies against the Blight. You were right to turn to me." (VO: confident)

Bhelen: "Harrowmont would bow and dandle you on his knee like a child, but he could never overcome the Assembly's resistance to your treaty." (VO: disdainful, a little jealous)

Bhelen: "This is a time for action, not cultured debate." (VO: passionate and determined)

Bhelen: "We need absolute unity to fight against the fulcrum of true evil." (VO: a dramatic political speech)

*GO TO TREE 3*



TREE 2

1. Father would never do that!

Bhelen: "He was a second son who took the throne of Orzammar. Do you honestly believe he did nothing underhanded?" (VO: scoffing)

1a. Just tell me the truth, did you poison Father? *Go to tree 2, line 4*

1b. I guess I can't blame you for playing a winning hand. *Go to tree 2, line 5*

1c. I'll never forgive you, but we can work together for now. *Go to tree 2, line 6*



(IF: Killed_Trian) 2. I only killed Trian because you said he was out to get me.

Bhelen: "Please. It's not like you were hard to convince. "Oh, dear. He may try to kill you." "Oops. Can't let that happen. Have to get to him first." (VO: sarcastic, condescending -- making fun of the player)

2a. Just tell me the truth, did you poison Father? *Go to tree 2, line 4*

2b. I guess I can't blame you for playing a winning hand. *Go to tree 2, line 5*

2c. I'll never forgive you, but we can work together for now. *Go to tree 2, line 6*



(IF: Framed) 3. You're wrong. I never plotted against you or Trian.

Bhelen: "You should thank me then; you could never handle the throne. A king of Orzammar has to be ruthless. He has to tell the Assembly to snap to or shut down." (VO: a little disdainful)

Bhelen: "He has to accept that in any battle, against darkspawn or politicians, there are casualties. Neither you nor Harrowmont is that king." (VO: determined, confident)

3a. Harrowmont would be a better king than you would! *Go to tree 4*

3b. Just tell me the truth, did you poison Father? *Go to tree 2, line 4*

3c. I guess I can't blame you for playing a winning hand. *Go to tree 2, line 5*

3d. I'll never forgive you, but we can work together for now. *Go to tree 2, line 6*



4. Just tell me the truth, did you poison Father?

Bhelen: "Father died of grief. He couldn't bear to live when you were gone." (VO: some sadness, jealousy)

4a. Why did you do it, Bhelen? What did I ever do to you? *Go to tree 1, line 2*

4b. I guess I can't blame you for playing a winning hand. *Go to tree 2, line 5*

4c. I'll never forgive you, but we can work together for now. *Go to tree 2, line 6*



5. I guess I can't blame you for playing a winning hand.

Bhelen: "And I guess you've finally learned something about politics." (VO: smirking)

Bhelen: "Now, Vartag tells me you're here seeking allies against the Blight. You were right to turn to me." (VO: confident)

Bhelen: "Harrowmont would bow and dandle you on his knee like a child, but he could never overcome the Assembly's resistance to your treaty." (VO: disdainful, a little jealous)

Bhelen: "This is a time for action, not cultured debate." (VO: passionate and determined)

Bhelen: "We need absolute unity to fight against the fulcrum of true evil." (VO: a dramatic political speech)

*GO TO TREE 3*





6. I'll never forgive you, but we can work together for now.

Bhelen: "You're right." (VO: approving)

Bhelen: "Harrowmont would bow and dandle you on his knee like a child, but he could never overcome the Assembly's resistance to your treaty." (VO: disdainful, a little jealous)

Bhelen: "This is a time for action, not cultured debate." (VO: passionate and determined)

Bhelen: "We need absolute unity to fight against the fulcrum of true evil." (VO: a dramatic political speech)

*GO TO TREE 3*

[/quote]



[quote] 2. Then you'll honor your agreement with the Wardens?

(IF: Dwarf_Noble) Bhelen: "Absolutely. And on the souls of our shared ancestors... as soon as Orzammar is united under Aeducan rule." (VO: dramatic, then pointed) [/quote]



[quote] (IF: Dwarf_Noble) 5. You never were willing to hear the voice of dissent.

Bhelen: "Unfortunately, while this debate rages, I have no power to send the troops you need." (VO: flat) [/quote]



[quote] (IF: Dwarf_Noble) Bhelen: "Unfortunately, Jarvia's base of operations is in Dust Town, and you know how little leverage we have there." (VO: frustrated)

Bhelen: "The casteless refuse to cooperate with my men. But now that you've spent so much time on the surface, you're practically one of them." (VO: an open insult, but knows player isn't in a position to fight it)

Bhelen: "Perhaps you'll have better luck." (VO: smirking) [/quote]



[quote] 1b. I'll look into it. That's all I can promise.

(IF: Dwarf_Noble) (Female) Bhelen: "Still taking the middle ground, big sister? I should have known you wouldn't give a firm answer." (VO: dismissive)

(IF: Dwarf_Noble) (Male) Bhelen: "Still hedging your bets, big brother? One of these days, you'll have to jump in with both feet." (VO: Dismissive)

Bhelen: "Take your time, then. But remember, every minute you wait, more darkspawn walk the surface lands..." (VO: Forboding) *END DIALOGUE* [/quote]



[quote] 2. Are you trying to go back on your word?

(IF: Dwarf_Noble) Bhelen: "I only promised to hear your story." (VO: mild)

Bhelen: "Now, I will help when I can, but I must send what troops I have now to combat Jarvia and her so-called carta." (VO: firm) *GO TO TREE 6* [/quote]



[quote] (IF: Dwarf_Noble) 4. I thought you were such a strong ruler, Bhelen.

Bhelen: "I can hold my throne, thank you. But I cannot hold it and send the troops you need. Or do you take back that request?" (VO: pointed)

Bhelen: "I didn't think so." (VO: sly. slight pause before this line, as if raising his eyebrow, waiting for the lack of response from the pc.)

Bhelen: "Now, I will help when I can, but I must send what troops I have now to combat Jarvia and her so-called carta." (VO: firm) *GO TO TREE 6*

[/quote]



[quote] 2. And let me guess, you want my help.

(IF: Dwarf_Noble) Bhelen: "Isn't that what you're offering? If you eliminate Jarvia and her thugs, I'll do my best to honor that treaty you're so sweet on." (VO: sly, making himself sound reasonable)

[/quote]



[quote] 5. Why haven't you been able to take her out before?

(IF: Dwarf_Noble) Bhelen: "Her roots are deep in Dust Town, and there are too many guardsmen in her pocket for me to dig her out right now." (VO: with hatred, like he's talking about a pest)

Bhelen: "And frankly, until Father's death, she kept her depravity focused on other brands, so no one cared. Now they're attacking honest men." (VO: dismissive)

[/quote]



[quote] (IF: Dwarf_Noble_Male) 6. If I help you, I want you to help my son.

(IF: Persuaded) Bhelen: "Your son? What are you-- Oh, that's rich. You're talking about that casteless girl, aren't you?" (VO: amused, smirking)

Bhelen: "The one that came around claiming an Aeducan son. That was yours? I never figured you for that sort of man." (VO: amused that his brother has vices)

Bhelen: "But put me on the throne and I'll give the **** and her brat the Aeducan name, and a lovely room in the smallest palace." (VO: offhand, condescending)

(Continues onto asking if player will help with Jarvia or not)

(IF: Not_persuaded) Bhelen: "Your son? What are you-- Oh. Oh, that's rich. You're talking about that casteless girl who came around claiming to have an Aeducan son." (VO: amused, smirking)

Bhelen: "Well, Brother, I can't agree to raise a condemned criminal's casteless brat into House Aeducan." (VO: enjoying insulting the player)

Bhelen: "Perhaps if you help me regain the throne, I'll reconsider. But I can't make any promises before then." (VO: condescending, insulting)

(Continues onto asking if player will help with Jarvia or not)

[/quote]



[quote] Harrowmont: Your father missed you sorely in his final days. I am glad you found a new place among the Grey Wardens.

DN: How did my father die?

Harrowmont: Of a broken heart, in my view. Some say Bhelen poisoned him, but I never left Endrin’s side, and I don’t see how. Bhelen did kill him, but only by what he did to you.

DN: Is it true my father wished you to be his heir?

Harrowmont: He knew what a poor king Bhelen would make; he saw it sooner than the rest of us. One of his last requests was that I carry out his wishes as Orzammar’s next king. It was the greatest honor of my life. [/quote]



[quote] Wojech: Well if it isn't the exiled Lady Aeducan/little Lord Aeducan (VO: Scornfully, condescendingly)

(Wojech: I'm looking forward to humiliating you, just like my brother did. (VO: Contemptuous))

(Wojech: I hear you made meat of my little brother. Looks like it's time to put the polish back on the Ivo name. (VO: Threatening))



PC: Your brother betrayed me and House Aeducan.

Wojech: I don't think so, exile. You're a nameless Surfacer now and my brother stands at Prince Bhelen's left hand (VO: Contemptuous)



PC: I'm going to make you eat those words.

Wojech: This isn't some Glory Proving to celebrate a noble brat's first commission, exile. (VO: Disdainful) You're fighting men now, not little girls. (VO: Macho)



PC: When Harrowmont is King, you and your brother will both hang.

Wojech: If Harrowmont has no one to champion him but a nameless exile, how will he find the votes to be King? (VO: Disdainful) You know what they say: The ancestors help those who side with the winners. (VO: Macho) [/quote]



[quote] Bhelen: "You have truly surprised me, Sister." (VO: friendly)

Bhelen: "You have earned the right to rejoin House Aeducan." (VO: warmly, almost sincere)

Bhelen: "Without your aid, I would not have taken this throne so smoothly or so soon." (pleased)

[/quote]



That's all I've got on hand although there's also the Harrowmont-DN son dialogue and Bhelen's coronation dialogue which I believe is something like:

(If not working for him) And we're supposed to trust this? The word of an drunken sot and a murderous exile known to be in Harrowmont's pocket?

(If side with Harrowmont) You turned your back on Orzammar when you killed our brother!

(If switch to him at the last minute) I...You leave me speechless. After all the venom we've spewed at each other...But I am honored that you would do what is right for your house.

(Back at palace) You may recognize this. Trian used it to crack skulls when he was showing off for father. I'm sure he'd want you to have it.



Oh, and Harrowmont says "Your father would be very proud of what you did here" if you side with him but he's not as origin-specific as Bhelen is.

[HAL4294]

wow, i never expected such a thorough answer. Did you write that or is it from some place?

[Xilizhra]

I'm curious... how does the dialogue change if you're a dwarf commoner?

[Sarah1281]

PC: But... Bhelen poisoned his father and killed his brother.

Rica: That's a horrible, vicious lie! Bhelen told me all about it. Lord Harrowmont always favored Bhelen's older brother, the one who murdered Trian. (VO: Indignant)

Rica: Bhelen thinks Harrowmont set the whole thing up to frame him. Then he had the gall to whisper these things to the dying king. (VO: Explaining how things really are)

Rica: When the king sent him away... Bhelen cried for weeks. Tell me you don't believe these horrible rumors! (Sadly)

PC: Bhelen is a liar and a kinslayer.

Rica: How could you say that? (VO: Accusing)

Rica: Have you been in the sun so long you forget who raised you and kept you from having to beg? (VO: Accusing)

(IF: Female) Rica: This is my life now, little sister. Bhelen is my life. How can you begrudge me this happiness? (VO: passionate)

(IF: Male) Rica: My life finally means something, little brother. Don't take that from me. (VO: passionate)

Rica: But this isn't why you're here, is it? What's wrong?



(Filler conversation explaining the blight)



Rica: But... I can introduce you to Vartag Gavorn. He's Bhelen's chief lieutenant. He could help you if anyone could.

PC: I'd rather talk to Lord Harrowmont.

Rica: I can't believe you! If Bhelen becomes king, your nephew is in line for the throne. You'd deny him

that chance? (VO: A little angry)

Rica: I-I can't talk to you when you're like this. Come back when you regain your wits." (VO: Exasperated)

(SET: Rica_Sad)



----

(IF: Rica_Sad)

Rica: So, did you find that beastly Harrowmont, and hear the slanders he speaks of my son's father? (VO: Scornfully)

1. Not yet, but I hear he'd be a better king than Bhelen.

2. Yes, and he seems like a good man.

(Both 1 and 2 lead to the same conversation below.)

Rica: Do you do this just to taunt me? What do you think that man would do to us if he took the throne? (VO: Angrily)

Rica: You'd see Mother and me back in the streets and your nephew left fatherless? (VO: Angrily)

PC: Harrowmont has a reputation for honesty and fairness.

Rica: Which he hides behind to spread his lies! What does it matter to you who rules?

Rica: You've found a life on the surface. This is my life! Support Bhelen, for me. I'll do all I can to ensure he helps you in return. (VO: bitter)

PC: What if Bhelen did kill his brother?

Rica: You don't understand what nobles are like. They fight for power like rats over bread. (VO: Trying to persuade someone passionately)

Rica: His brothers hated him. They, and Lord Harrowmont, would do anything to bring him down. But he wouldn't stoop to that level. (VO: Defending someone passionately)

Rica: He knows the most important thing to the ancestors is family loyalty. I hope you know that, too.

PC: I'm sorry. I cannot support Bhelen as king.

(IF: Female) Rica: Then you are no longer my sister. Maybe if I'd let Mother sell you on the street you wouldn't be forcing my son there now! (VO: Hateful)

(IF: Male) Rica: Then you are no longer my brother. I wish I'd let you die as a boy, so you wouldn't be killing my son now! (VO: Full of hate)



-- OR --



3. I don't want to have this argument now.

Rica: Of course not. You're too busy destroying your only nephew's future! (VO: Angrily)



-----

If you fight Proving in Harrowmont's name:

Rica: I can't believe you went and fought a Proving--a Proving--for that wretched Harrowmont. And I told Bhelen we could trust you! (VO: Angry, betrayed)



----

If Harrowmont crowned king:

Rica: You traitor! I have nothing to say to you. (VO: Furiously)

Rica: You are no longer my sister/brother. (VO: With finality)

(IF: PC is NOT dwarf noble)

Wynne: "Harrowmont seems an honorable man. This Prince Bhelen will not even deign to speak with you. Why should you help him?" (VO: appealing to the player's good sense)



(IF: Dwarf Commoner) 1. Working against him might harm Rica and my nephew.

(medium persuade) Wynne: "I suppose I never considered that..." (VO: realizing)

(no persuade) Wynne: "But he seems like a thoroughly loathsome individual. I think you are making a mistake." (VO: dislike for Bhelen)

1a. I do not wish to argue this. I made my decision.

Wynne - [APPROVAL: low decrease]

(IF: Sten in party) Sten - [APPROVAL: low decrease]

1b. It's my mistake to make then.

Wynne - [Approval: low decrease]

1c. Fine. If it will please you, I will not work with Bhelen.

Vartag: "You and I have nothing more to discuss until you come back to kneel before the rightful king." (VO: cold, a little vicious) *END DIALOGUE*

(IF: Dwarf_Commoner) Bhelen: "Your sister told me you have a history with Jarvia and the carta she runs." (VO: delicate) *Go to tree 6, line 4, line 5, line 6 and tree 5, line 3d*



(IF: Dwarf_Commoner) 4. Now there's a name I never wanted to hear again.

Bhelen: "Your sister told me of your... past run-ins with Jarvia." (VO: delicate, trying to put it politely)

Bhelen: "She took over Beraht's carta after you left, and expanded his operations remarkably. From what Rica says, I doubt Jarvia remembers you fondly." (VO: hinting) *Go to tree 6, line 6, tree 7, line 3*



(IF: Dwarf_Commoner) 5. If you're talking about killing Jarvia, I want in! *Go to tree 7, line 3*



(IF: Dwarf_Commoner) 3. If you're talking about killing Jarvia, I want in!

Bhelen: "I love how you jump straight to the point. Yes. I want Jarvia dead and her carta wiped out." (VO: pleased, but a little condescending)

Bhelen: "It would boost my popularity to be known as the one who eliminated her. And I could promise you the troops you need." (VO: pointed -- this is a ******-for-tat arrangement)

Bhelen: "I would offer to help, but I imagine you know Dust Town far better than I do." (VO: dismissive) *Go to tree 5, line 1a and 1b*

There's also Bhelen being all 'sister/brother!' all the time and clearly not meaning it (I got really disturbed when he said he could now greet me like a sister once I crowned him given what he did to his biological siblings) and Harrowmont promises not to touch Rica if you bring her up to him.

[HAL4294]

Frankly it looks like the right decision is to support harrowmont in both origins

[Sarah1281]

HAL4294 wrote...

Frankly it looks like the right decision is to support harrowmont in both origins

Even in the DC origin? Even if you take Harrowmont at his word not to go after Rica, he promises her no protection should the Aeducans decide to kick her out because her sibling took them out of power and potentiall her baby, too. It's only metagaming that you know she'll be fine. And Harrowmont intends to keep things the same while Bhelen actually improves things for the casteless. Why in the world should they support the traditional 'Oh, you're casteless...awkard...must avoid saying something offensive' Harrowmont? 

[HAL4294]

Rica doesnt just turn out fine, she turns out better. Harrowmont has proven to be a good guy, so hes sure to keep his word of protecting her. Bhelen has proven himself to be a snake and a liar, metagaming-wise, you know he lied to Rica about Trian, and in-game the player can suspect that. The decision I made that seems to work best with all origins is to do Bhelen's first mission, then secretly support and eventually crown Harrowmont. And also, I dont remember Harrowmont ever voicing his dislike of the casteless. The casteless are only negatively affected if Harrowmont is crowned AND you side with branka, otherwise they stay the same. Furthermore, at the end of the game, your family is elevated to the warrior caste, so whatever happens to the casteless, it doesnt affect you.

Modifié par HAL4294, 27 octobre 2010 - 04:42 .

[Xilizhra]

Really, no one should support Harrowmont. He's a terrible king.

[Sarah1281]

HAL4294 wrote...

Frankly it looks like supporting harrowmont is the right decision in both origins

You already said that without answering why in the world a casteless should support the anti-casteless but still polite ot a Warden Harrowmont.

[Xilizhra]

I think it was one of those forum-induced double posts.

[HAL4294]

thats exactly right

[Sarah1281]

HAL4294 wrote...

Rica doesnt just turn out fine, she turns out better. Harrowmont has proven to be a good guy, so hes sure to keep his word of protecting her. Bhelen has proven himself to be a snake and a liar, metagaming-wise, you know he lied to Rica about Trian, and in-game the player can suspect that. The decision I made that seems to work best with all origins is to do Bhelen's first mission, then secretly support and eventually crown Harrowmont. And also, I dont remember Harrowmont ever voicing his dislike of the casteless. The casteless are only negatively affected if Harrowmont is crowned AND you side with branka, otherwise they stay the same. Furthermore, at the end of the game, your family is elevated to the warrior caste, so whatever happens to the casteless, it doesnt affect you.

1) Rica turning out fine is meta-gaming. You cannot say 'Well, in the epilogue I know my sister will be happy that she doesn't have to listen to Bhelen even though she seems to love him so therefore I will feel confident in doing something she fears will send her back to Dust Town' as a RP reason to pick Harrowmont.
2) Harrowmont does NOT promise to take care of her. He says 'Yeah, I won't touch her but she's House Aeducan's problem.' That does not shield her from any possible repercussions of your actions. Just because there aren't any doesn't mean you know that without metagaming and Rica is very worried that there will be.
3) Why does Bhelen's dirty politics necessarily threaten Rica who has nothing to do with politics and believes everything he says? 
4) Harrowmont makes it clear that he is the voice of tradition. You know what else is a proud tradtion of Orzammar? Oppressing the casteless. Bhelen favors making use of all elements of society...including casteless.
5) Well, I guess it doesn't technically affect you and if you want to completely ignore the group you were born into because suddenly you're too good for them you can feel free to support Harrowmont and watch more people turn out like Nadezda and Zerlinda.

[HAL4294]

The first thing you learn as a casteless is you gotta look out for yourself, the casteless as a whole don't matter. And to be elevated to warrior just as bhelen makes all casteless warriors is a moot point. Furthermore, knowing that the election ends in Bhelen's death is also metagaming, so you can assume that, as Harrowmont promises, nothing will happen to her. Following the caste system, since her son is a son, Rica would live among the nobles regardless of her husband's fate. Finally remember that Rica is your SIBLING. Bhelen murdered his sibling. You knw that metagaming or not. Another important lesson as a casteless- family matters. Finally again, I gathered from the text that Bhelen is using your position as his sibling-in-law to gain your support. Nobody manipulates a grey warden.

Modifié par HAL4294, 27 octobre 2010 - 05:46 .

[Sarah1281]

HAL4294 wrote...

The first thing you learn as a casteless is you gotta look out for yourself, the casteless as a whole don't matter. And to be elevated to warrior just as bhelen makes all casteless warriors is a moot point. Furthermore, knowing that the election ends in Bhelen's death is also metagaming, so you can assume that, as Harrowmont promises, nothing will happen to her. Following the caste system, since her son is a son, Rica would live among the nobles regardless of her husband's fate. Finally remember that Rica is your SIBLING. Bhelen murdered his sibling. You knw that metagaming or not. Another important lesson as a casteless- family matters. Finally again, I gathered from the text that Bhelen is using your position as his sibling-in-law to gain your support. Nobody manipulates a grey warden.

Yes, you learn you have to look out for yourself. But why does that mean that you wouldn't take an opportunity that is literally handed to you on a silver platter to improve the lives of the casteless? All you have to do is support Bhelen. And say you don't think Bhelen will get himself killed but you do believe that he killed his own siblings: why in the world would you leave Rica totally dependent on the immoral man you just denied the throne after seeing what lengths he'd go for it? It's hardly a law that nobles HAVE to let their casteless concubines live with the house because she had a son. They tend to do that as an incentive for NHs to have their babies and so their heirs won't have the stigma of a 'worthless' mother. If you take the Aeducans from power, there was every chance they could have decided to boot her back to Dust Town (and maybe even Endrin) or else they could simply kill her to get back at you. Harrowmont can't do anything about House Aeducan's internal affairs. You're endangering Rica by supporting Harrowmont and just because nothing happens doesn't mean the threat isn't still there.

It's nice that your sense of high-minded 'nobody manipulates me and gets away with it' turns out to be more important than worrying about your family. BTW, 'family matters' isn't a casteles lesson. It's not a casteless belief. It's something your sister imparts in you. Look at how much 'family matters' to your mother who is a much more typical example of a casteless. If your family really mattered, you wouldn't leave Rica to potentially pay for your actions.

[HAL4294]

On a related note, is their any possible dialogue with Rica as a Dwarf Commoner after electing Harrowmont, or does she just spit in your face without giving you as chance to interject?

[Sarah1281]

HAL4294 wrote...

On a related note, is their any possible dialogue with Rica as a Dwarf Commoner after electing Harrowmont, or does she just spit in your face without giving you as chance to interject?

She disowns you as a sister/brother as she is pissed you killed her son's father and is deathly terrified that they'll be sent back to Dust Town. Unsurprisingly, she doesn't really see how choosing Harrowmont is the choice you make for her sake. And had you chosen Bhelen, her son might have become king.

[HAL4294]

Its to my knowledge that Rica forgives you and lives an even better life in the epilogue. If its not too much trouble, could you post the dialogue between the warden and rica post-coronation. One for if you crown bhelen and one for harrowmont, PLEASE

[Sarah1281]

HAL4294 wrote...

Its to my knowledge that Rica forgives you and lives an even better life in the epilogue. If its not too much trouble, could you post the dialogue between the warden and rica post-coronation. One for if you crown bhelen and one for harrowmont, PLEASE

Rica is not mentioned in the epilogue.

Rica: A Grey Warden. And now a hero, too? A bit different from the slums, hmm? (VO: amused)
(IF: Harrowmont_King)
PC: Sorry I got your husband killed.
Rica: Bah, it worked out just fine. My son will be the Aeducan heir, and I don't have a husband to boss me around. I should thank you. (VO: She's saying "don't worry about it!" -- the player actually did her a favor, weirdly)
Rica: Mother swore off drinking when she heard about what you did. She's been sober ever since. And as ill as a fellcat in water. Talk to Harrowmont however you want until he gets to the part where he needs the DC to go after Jarvia.

If Bhelen is King you get this instead:
PC: Aren't you married to the king?
Rica: Ha! I'm his concubine, but it's a comfortable position anyhow, I'll give you that. (please) 

And hey, as you're going to be a Paragon she may end up marrying Bhelen. Who knows? With Bhelen dead, Endrin is the Aeducan heir by default as Bhelen can't have any other children (and he wouldn't commit to an  heir even while Endrin was his only child, probably to avoid putting his least talented child in the heir position like what happened with Trian). She pretty clearly loved Bhelen, I think, but it turns out her position isn't threatened by your actions after all and so she forgave you.

[HAL4294]

There you go, Rica is much happier with Bhelen dead. As her big sibling, you look out what's best for her in the long run. Having a royal son with no restrictions, good. Being the **** of a dictator whose likely to replace your heir, not good.

[Xilizhra]

...while screwing over the rest of dwarven society and leaving Orzammar to a slow death.

[Sarah1281]

HAL4294 wrote...

There you go, Rica is much happier with Bhelen dead. As her big sibling, you look out what's best for her in the long run. Having a royal son with no restrictions, good. Being the **** of a dictator whose likely to replace your heir, not good.

No, not 'there you go.' Rica is not shown to be happier with Bhelen dead. She is not shown to have a better life with Bhelen dead. If that's how you choose to RP it then fine but don't mistake that for what the game says.

And if Bhelen is dead then she does not have a royal son. Plus since he's the heir and only an infant, it's likely he'll become a puppet head anyway.

[HAL4294]

You said the player actually did her a favor. Saying the heir will be a puppet head is pure conjecture. Just because Lord Harrowmont becomes king doesnt mean the Harrowmonts replace the Aeducans as the royal caste, and I don't see how your a better judge on what the game says than 'the game', which has Rica inheriting power and thanking the DC.

[Sarah1281]

HAL4294 wrote...

You said the player actually did her a favor. Saying the heir will be a puppet head is pure conjecture. Just because Lord Harrowmont becomes king doesnt mean the Harrowmonts replace the Aeducans as the royal caste, and I don't see how your a better judge on what the game says than 'the game', which has Rica inheriting power and thanking the DC.

That was just the VO notes.

I never said it was a fact that he would be a puppet head. I said 'likely' which is another word for 'BTW THIS IS CONJECTURE' so you really didn't need to point that out. There is, of course, plenty of historical precedence for small children who inherit a title (Lord Aeducan in this case) being controlled by other powerful adults. Rica can't stop that from happening. I feel that this will probably occur. I'm not claiming this is a fact.

And of course Harrowmont becoming king means the Harrowmonts replace the Aeducans as royalty! How can you possibly claim otherwise? Endrin, as long as he lives and isn't disowned, will always be nobility but only the family that has the throne is the royal family. As long as Harrowmont lives, the Harrowmonts will be the royal family. If his successor is also a Harrowmont then the royal family will continued to be the Harrowmonts but say Lady Dace becomes queen after Harrowmont dies. House Dace will be the royal family. If Bhelen is king then Endrin is royalty. If Harrowmont is king then he is no longer royalty. 

And where am I claiming that I know better than the game? Rica never says that her life will be better under Harrowmont. There is no epilogue telling you this. It's just a freaking VO note which, while those can be helpful, those are just guidelines that voice actor is supposed to look at to see how they deliver a line. They are not infallible. They have flat-out disagreed with other parts of the game or Word of God in the past. Even if Rica feels that her life will be better without Bhelen, there is no guarentee that she is right. Not accepting the VO notes of one character who cannot see what her life would have been like had you made another choice is NOT claiming to know better than the game.