240 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

Black_Tuesday wrote...
I was talking about "you" in the context of the PC. Morality of NPCs are very sensitive to the PC's own actions, and thus to divorce what a character does from what your character does is an odd argument.

And it's irrelevent.
One of my characters did approach Isabela and enjoyed it as hell. I, as a gamer, found out that Isabela doesn't mind foursomes, and as such, I would not want her for a partner. And that's what the OP is saying, that he, as a gamer, doesn't want someone like her as a love interest.

And no, the morality of NPCs does not depend on the PC, but rather on what the PC does which reveals or exposes the morality of the NPC. But it's not the PC who dictates the morality of others. Influences at best.  

[Ryzaki]

...dude re-edit your OP with that. It's not as inflammatory.

[Merced256]

Black_Tuesday wrote...

Merced256 wrote...Because video games are extentions of real life and the decisions we make in them are reflections upon the same decisions we make on a daily basis. Because i choose the 4way with isabela i'm a sleezeball IRL even though i did it because i didn't have the appropriate stats to learn the duelist specialization the honest way.

Dude. I don't think either Isabela is one. Nor the person who has a threesome with her is.

I just think that if you are going to judge a NPCs character when it is dependent on your PC's actions, then the same judgement one applies to her, applies to to the PC.

Which is ridiculous because there are virtually no consequences for any choice a player makes in a video game whereas in real life there are some very real and some very negative ones that act as curbing agent. Nevermind that someone might metagame it purely for convenienence.

[Riona45]

Merced256 wrote...
 Because i choose the 4way with isabela i'm a sleezeball IRL even though i did it because i didn't have the appropriate stats to learn the duelist specialization the honest way.

No, you are certainly not a sleezeball IRL because of that.

[Ryzaki]

Black_Tuesday wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Morrigan who never speaks about past sexual experiences? On what basis are the skank labels being given out? Clothing choices?

Doesn't Morrigan talk about the "men" Flemeth used and how she was eventually taught to do such? Or was I mishearing things?

She says she was told that one day this would be expected of her.

Ick. So Flemeth had sex raped men in front of her?  I'm surprised that didn't put her off sex forever.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 04:28 .

[Merced256]

iny0fac3 wrote...

Merced256 wrote...

iny0fac3 wrote...

Randy1083 wrote...

Ah, my favorite thing about Thedas: no Puritans.

quote for truth.

imagine if you had to romance a puritan.

I liked bastila's romance..

mate you need to get your history straight...

Really? I'd love to see you debate this because i've already got it all lined up.

[Lord_Valandil]

Dudalizer wrote...

They want sex, but have no interest in have a romantic relationship with another person.

What the hell?
You didn't even play the game, right?

[SirOccam]

Wholetyouinhere wrote...

Figures, the overzealous femi-****s would jump straight down the OP's throat.

Most of the love interests in Bioware games are or were skanks. They aren't sexually confident or unashamed or whatever you want to call it. They are scantily clad women who drop their pants for any protagonist who clicks the right dozen or so responses. Morrigan's hanging out of a scarf, and she'll jump your bones almost immediately. Leiliana, while reformed, was basically a professional seductress. Jack is wearing suspenders as a shirt, and will also bone you at the drop of a hat.

Are there reasons why these women are so sexed? Of course. They aren't poorly characterized. It's just the same one or two notes over and over again, and it's getting really old. I skip romance options almost constantly now - they feel too ham-handed and repetitive because Bioware only seems to go one of 2-3 ways with it. Fact is, the romances feel extremely rushed and shoe-horned in pretty much all Bioware games. When you really think about it, it makes sense that most of the sexually active characters are borderline nymphos - you'd have to be if boning is somehow a priority given the gravity of these situations.

Incidentally, the proganist is usually a skank as well. You're hooking up with these women (or men) with fairly reckless abandon as well.

You're just handing out arbitrary moral judgements, but at least by the end you recognize that the protagonist plays a part.

"Dropping their pants for any protagonist who clicks the right dozen or so responses" is pretty much all they can do. Everything comes down to a few clicks, if you want to look at it that way. It's just a limitation of the medium.

But here's the thing...you're berating BioWare for giving us options, essentially. Just because you can do something with a certain NPC doesn't mean that NPC "always" does that, or is obsessed with it, or whatever. If you don't indicate your interest by making romantic gestures at these NPCs, they won't throw themselves on you.

The solution to this, in your eyes, would be what? Remove the option of sleeping with an NPC altogether? That's pretty much all that's left, because simply allowing for the possibility is enough, apparently, for you to name them skanks.

And I won't even get into trying to explain why Morrigan and Jack's apparent "easiness" makes sense for their characters.

[Daerog]

Wholetyouinhere wrote...
Most of the love interests in Bioware games are or were skanks.

That is not true at all, if the term "skank"* is defined as someone who sleeps around and is always up for sex.

I never played BG, but from what I can gather, the only "skank" was the dark elf. That was 1 out of 4 romance options (3 females, 1 male).

NWN: Only played original game and the first expansion, noticed no skanks to romance.
KotOR: 0 of 3 skanks to romance.
Jade Empire: 0 of 3 skanks to romance.
ME: 0 of 3 skanks to romance, except Liara did seem open to Shepard having multiple partners, but she didn't sleep around and was just crazy about Shep for some reason.
ME2: Miranda seems to be one in the LotSB dossiers and Jack was kind of a "skank" but she was also socially challenged.
DA:O: Zevran I suppose was a "skank." Morrigan you could say was one as well. Leliana seduced, but never mentioned her sleeping around specifically, but maybe.

The "skankiness" seems like a more recent thing.
I am really happy that Isabella is returning because she seemed to be a very interesting and strong character. A ship captain who is also a strong duelist? Sounds great!

*I do not support the thought that these characters are "skanks."

[SirOccam]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I, as a gamer, found out that Isabela doesn't mind foursomes, and as such, I would not want her for a partner. And that's what the OP is saying, that he, as a gamer, doesn't want someone like her as a love interest.

"Not minding foursomes" is quite different from "being a skank," though.

[Ryzaki]

Here's the whole convo for Morri:

* Leliana: They say your mother is Flemeth, a witch of the Korcari Wilds.
* Morrigan: They also say that washing your feet in winter makes you catch cold in the head, but we all know that is not true. But sometimes they are right and they are right in this.
* Leliana: You know the stories about--
* Morrigan: Of course. You think me mother would let me go without telling me all the stories of her youth?
* Leliana: My mother told me stories too. She was the one who kindled my love of the old tales and legends.
* Morrigan: Hmph. my mother's stories curdled my blood and haunted my dreams. No little girl wants to hear about the Wilder men her mother took to her bed, using them till they were spent, then killing them. No little girl wants to be told that this is also expected of her, once she comes of age.
* Leliana: I... uh... I see.
* Morrigan: No, you don't. You really don't.

...Ick. So It might've just been stories...which are bad enough.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 04:31 .

[upsettingshorts]

SirOccam wrote...
The solution to this, in your eyes, would be what? Remove the option of sleeping with an NPC altogether? That's pretty much all that's left, because simply allowing for the possibility is enough, apparently, for you to name them skanks.

The examples you're looking for are Samara (turns you down), Morinth (kills you), and Renegade Jack (loses respect for you).

[Dudalizer]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Dudalizer wrote...

They want sex, but have no interest in have a romantic relationship with another person.

What the hell?
You didn't even play the game, right?

How so?  Did not Morrigan and Zevran try to start secucing you before any real romantic progression?  And Isabella took one or two convo response before she was willing to get nekkid. 

[Addai]

SirOccam wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

??  This doesn't make a lot of sense.  So yes, she's not tackling people on the street and ripping their clothes off.  But still, she'll sleep with a bunch of people she just met and does so with a "the more the merrier" attitude.  That means it's part of her character regardless of whether the Warden even approaches her.

As imported_beer says, this is metagaming.

Using this logic you could argue that anything that is possible with an NPC defines them as a person. I suppose Dr. Chakwas is a raging alcoholic now because you can join her for a bit of brandy.

Are other NPCs not skanks because they are unwilling to do the same things, or just because they haven't been programmed to? So the option is open with Isabela; so what? As others have said, YOU have to be the one to pursue that path. All she will suggest is a simple card game to test your dexterity. Whose mind is really in the gutter?

Eurrgghh.  We're talking about how the character is written.  She's written that way no matter how the Wardens you played interacted with her.  Now, it very well could be that in DA2 we find out she was just curious about the Warden and was acting out of character for a purpose, or she chewed some Antivan herbs that morning and just had to get busy, or whatever, that she's really a one-guy kind of woman.  And Zevran was able to seduce her so easily because... because he's got magical elf powers.   But from what we know of her, that's just the way she rolls.  So, it is metagaming, but so what because that's the point.  We're talking about player preferences.

Modifié par Addai67, 27 octobre 2010 - 04:40 .

[Aermas]

Wow there are some really twisted views on this. Why not just start a support a classy lady love interest topic instead of arguing about how ****ty the Bioware girls are?



No Morrigan is not skanky she doesn't like attachment, but is willing to be in a mature mutual relationship, she is the only one that is not promiscuous, Liliana is (her job was to seduce men), Zeveran is a man-****, & Isabella is willing to be in a foursome to teach you how to fight. Yes, Isabella is a skank but you have to be a skank to find that out. Just because you don't know that the sky is blue does not make it orange



*steps of soapbox

[Lord_Valandil]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

One of my characters did approach Isabela and enjoyed it as hell. I, as a gamer, found out that Isabela doesn't mind foursomes, and as such, I would not want her for a partner. And that's what the OP is saying, that he, as a gamer, doesn't want someone like her as a love interest.

He could have said that, without referring to the girls as "skanks", saying that he had a lot of "class" and that most of us surely live in "*****"-up places. Don't you agree? Yes?

[KnightofPhoenix]

SirOccam wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I, as a gamer, found out that Isabela doesn't mind foursomes, and as such, I would not want her for a partner. And that's what the OP is saying, that he, as a gamer, doesn't want someone like her as a love interest.

"Not minding foursomes" is quite different from "being a skank," though.

I do not like using labels and I did not agree with the OP's initial post, which he apologized for.
So I didn't claim anything like that. Just stating a preference without name calling.

[Merced256]

SirOccam wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I, as a gamer, found out that Isabela doesn't mind foursomes, and as such, I would not want her for a partner. And that's what the OP is saying, that he, as a gamer, doesn't want someone like her as a love interest.

"Not minding foursomes" is quite different from "being a skank," though.

In what fundamental way? The best possible argument you can hope to present is that its subjective, in which case i would appeal to popular belief that names such activity as "skank-like" before you invoke some bull**** logical fallacy.

[Lord_Valandil]

Dudalizer wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Dudalizer wrote...

They want sex, but have no interest in have a romantic relationship with another person.

What the hell?
You didn't even play the game, right?

How so?  Did not Morrigan and Zevran try to start secucing you before any real romantic progression?  And Isabella took one or two convo response before she was willing to get nekkid. 

Well, Morrigan actually -complains- when she sees that you're only interested in bedding her.
Zevran is an easy lover. Hell, even the achievement is named like that. But if the Warden dies "He never loved again", so yeah, there you go.

I know that in RL it's not "easy" to take someone to bed after talking five minutes. But what did you want? Talking to a NPC for an hour before she accepted a foursome?
Give me a break.

[Ryzaki]

...How is a foursome with people you know, possibly love and trust skankish? Granted that's not what happened but still...

Unconvential sex =/= skank

Not at all. I don't see where people are getting that.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2010 - 04:35 .

[upsettingshorts]

Lord_Valandil wrote...
He could have said that, without referring to the girls as "skanks", saying that he had a lot of "class" and that most of us surely live in "*****"-up places. Don't you agree? Yes?

Indeed.  Using inflammatory or insensitive language is a good way to have your opinions dismissed by those who would otherwise respectfully disagree with you.  When it comes to an argument langauage is just as important, if not moreso, than intent. 

Many people, though not all, on internet forums such as these don't seem to think so and it shows.

[Dudalizer]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

One of my characters did approach Isabela and enjoyed it as hell. I, as a gamer, found out that Isabela doesn't mind foursomes, and as such, I would not want her for a partner. And that's what the OP is saying, that he, as a gamer, doesn't want someone like her as a love interest.

He could have said that, without referring to the girls as "skanks", saying that he had a lot of "class" and that most of us surely live in "*****"-up places. Don't you agree? Yes?

I apologized for that, but really how do you expect me to respond when people are attacking me?  Please stop trying to start a fight.

[Merced256]

Ryzaki wrote...

...How is a foursome with people you know, possibly love and trust skankish? Granted that's not what happened but still...

Unconvential sex =/= skank

Not at all. I don't see where people are getting that.

Even Cosmo thinks 4way is skany, need i any other evidence?