442 réponses à ce sujet

[Maconbar]

BrotherWarth wrote...

csoulsby wrote...

This is a game where you can be shot full of arrows, set on fire, frozen in place, or stabbed hundreds of time with a knife. I don't think lack of armor is going to make this game any less realistic.

Some things in video games are just givens.  Like not dying from a single arrow to the chest, for instance. Some things are not. Like people not chaning their clothes. Ever.

The new custom cloths that the companions wear will make them far more individual. It will also allow the developers to make custom bodies, animations, and attacks.

I'm tired of this BS excuse. Good writing makes the characters more unique. What this excuse basically emplies is that all the characters in Origins are unoriginal and boring. Sten wearing only Qunari armor in Origins wouldn't have made him any more unique or individual. He stood out because of his personality, which was attained through writing. Not clothing design.

So if clothing design doesn't make characters more unique, why do you care about clothing choices?

[In Exile]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Because taking away choice is a bad thing. Especially when we had the choice before.

I ran across an excellent analogy for choice that explains my objection to this position.

Suppose, at one point, you could choose between 50 different brands of Coca Cola; fundamentally, they are all Coca Cola, but they have ever so slight variations that not one is the same as the other.

Now, suppose you could choose between 1 brand of cola, one brand of wine, one brand of milk, and one brand of orange juice. Your choices have dropped down to 4, but I would argue that you have more choice, not less choice.

I would say this is the same issue with the companions. If we had the choice of 1-2 unique items across the game for NPCs, that would be worth far more than the 19 or so largely useless items we could choose in DA:O.

Now, it's not clear DA2 actually lets us change outfits at all; but this is the principle of the thing.

[In Exile]

BrotherWarth wrote...

That argument is fundementally flawed. 50 IS MORE than 1. Less literally is not more. So giving me 50 flavors, then later for some unknown reason saying I can only have one 1 of those forever and I can't even decide what flavor it's going to be is taking away my choice. Throwing in wine, milk and joice is superfluous. Just an attempt to circumvent the argument. There's a reason why Coke, Cherry Coke, Diet Coke, Caffeine Free Coke, Vanilla Coke and Coke Zero all exist. People like choice. If Coke came out tomorrow and said "Now we're only making regular Coke. No other flavors." You wouldn't be saying that they're giving you more choice. Because that's stupid.

No, the argument isn't flawed. There is a distinction I am trying to get across, which is the source of the debate.

Clearly, you think lots of choice (from a numerical standpoint) is always good, even if the difference is minor.

Whereas other people (i.e. me) do not care about how many choices of the same thing we can have; we care about how many distinct things we can choose from.

If, tomorrow, every drink producer said "all forms of non-coke are being eliminated; you will be able to choose between 1000s of brands of coke, but milk, juice, energy drinks etc. will no longer exist' people will argue you have less choice.

It is not just the number of choices that matter to people, but what you are choosing. And different people weight it differently. Feel free to disagree with me, but appreciate why I don't agree with you.

[In Exile]

BrotherWarth wrote...
But it is an illogical argument. Origins didn't offer only one kind of choice while DA2 is offering a different choice. DA2 is just offering less choice. Simple as that. I don't even know what you're trying to communicate with the milk and juice comments. As I said, Bioware aren't removing one element of customization for another here. They're just removing one.

We don't know how may outfits DA2 is offering. We know outfit changes are the exception rather than the rule. If DA2 locks us into 1 armour, then I will be very dissapointed.

DA:O did offer only one kind of choice, as it turns out: you really had two functional item meshes (light armour and massive armour) because of the way tiers worked. You could, I suppose, pick weaker armour if you wanted, so that gave you 4 choices (medium & heavy). That gave you the option to choose between 4 looks.

If DA:O gives you 2 unique looks for each companion, which are very distinct, that gives you more substantive choice. If it's 1, it's a loss, but means (for example) with 8 party NPCs we have 8 unique meshes instead of 4 generic ones we had with DA:O, which is IMO superior.

[svendigo]

Wait, so.. what's the verdict?

[Ziggeh]

BrotherWarth wrote...

You seem to have selective memory. Origins had dozens of armor models. There isn't just 1 massive armor, 1 light armor, 1 heavy and 1 medium. I can have 4 warriors all in massive armor and none of them look the same.

But all of them look ugly.

[Herr Uhl]

svendigo wrote...

Wait, so.. what's the verdict?

On what? If the outfits are static?

In that case, yes they are. I think it'll resemble PS:T in the regard of companion armor.

You can still give them weapons, belts and rings to customize them.

[Xewaka]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

But all of them look ugly.

The armor of the Legion of the Dead was beatiful. The Colossus armor had a great "shining knight" vibe. The Templar armor had those awesome purple skirts. The Dragon Armor could do without the shining eyes effect, but was otherwise nice. So I can't agree with that sentence. They looked solid and functional, yet artistic. None of these stupid spikes jutting everywhere.

[Herr Uhl]

BrotherWarth wrote...

ziggehunderslash wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

You seem to have selective memory. Origins had dozens of armor models. There isn't just 1 massive armor, 1 light armor, 1 heavy and 1 medium. I can have 4 warriors all in massive armor and none of them look the same.

But all of them look ugly.

...

...

Really?

I'm not a fan of the plume helmet, but otherwise they looked alright.

[In Exile]

BrotherWarth wrote...

You seem to have selective memory. Origins had dozens of armor models. There isn't just 1 massive armor, 1 light armor, 1 heavy and 1 medium. I can have 4 warriors all in massive armor and none of them look the same.

Massive armour had 1 mesh. Heavy armour had 2 meshes - chainmail and dwarven (or was dwarven filed under massive 2?). Medium armour had 1 mesh. Light armour had 2 meshes. 1+2+1+2 = 6. So my mistake. A reskin =! new model. 

[Herr Uhl]

In Exile wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

You seem to have selective memory. Origins had dozens of armor models. There isn't just 1 massive armor, 1 light armor, 1 heavy and 1 medium. I can have 4 warriors all in massive armor and none of them look the same.

Massive armour had 1 mesh. Heavy armour had 2 meshes - chainmail and dwarven (or was dwarven filed under massive 2?). Medium armour had 1 mesh. Light armour had 2 meshes. 1+2+1+2 = 6. So my mistake. A reskin =! new model. 

There was Templar, Dragonplate, Basic and Legionaire style massive armor IIRC.

And you also forgot the Ancient Elven armor among the mediums.

[Ziggeh]

Xewaka wrote...

The armor of the Legion of the Dead was beatiful. The Colossus armor had a great "shining knight" vibe. The Templar armor had those awesome purple skirts. The Dragon Armor could do without the shining eyes effect, but was otherwise nice. So I can't agree with that sentence. They looked solid and functional, yet artistic. None of these stupid spikes jutting everywhere.

Agreed, some of the massive armours weren't bad, but due to the model frame they generally look distorted. I had a female elf who looked like she was on tip toe inside a suit designed for someone much larger.

[In Exile]

Herr Uhl wrote...

In Exile wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

You seem to have selective memory. Origins had dozens of armor models. There isn't just 1 massive armor, 1 light armor, 1 heavy and 1 medium. I can have 4 warriors all in massive armor and none of them look the same.

Massive armour had 1 mesh. Heavy armour had 2 meshes - chainmail and dwarven (or was dwarven filed under massive 2?). Medium armour had 1 mesh. Light armour had 2 meshes. 1+2+1+2 = 6. So my mistake. A reskin =! new model. 

There was Templar, Dragonplate, Basic and Legionaire style massive armor IIRC.

And you also forgot the Ancient Elven armor among the mediums.

Ancient Elven was a reskin of the chainmail. Templar was also a reskin of the massive, with the bottom skirt thingy. Legion of the dead armour was just the dwarven massive armour design, that you used for stuff like Blood Dragon armour too.

Don't know what you mean by basic, but those are just two meshes.

[Steppenwolf]

In Exile wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

In Exile wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

You seem to have selective memory. Origins had dozens of armor models. There isn't just 1 massive armor, 1 light armor, 1 heavy and 1 medium. I can have 4 warriors all in massive armor and none of them look the same.

Massive armour had 1 mesh. Heavy armour had 2 meshes - chainmail and dwarven (or was dwarven filed under massive 2?). Medium armour had 1 mesh. Light armour had 2 meshes. 1+2+1+2 = 6. So my mistake. A reskin =! new model. 

There was Templar, Dragonplate, Basic and Legionaire style massive armor IIRC.

And you also forgot the Ancient Elven armor among the mediums.

Ancient Elven was a reskin of the chainmail. Templar was also a reskin of the massive, with the bottom skirt thingy. Legion of the dead armour was just the dwarven massive armour design, that you used for stuff like Blood Dragon armour too.

Don't know what you mean by basic, but those are just two meshes.

I misspoke when I said models. But you're splitting hairs. Reskins of armors tended to look very different. Blood Dragon, Colossus, Sentinel and Cailin's armor all look very different but they're all massive armor. Your argument is baseless.

[Steppenwolf]

Oh, and this is alt account for BrotherWarth. I got signed out and accidentally signed into this one.

[Herr Uhl]

In Exile wrote...

Ancient Elven was a reskin of the chainmail. Templar was also a reskin of the massive, with the bottom skirt thingy. Legion of the dead armour was just the dwarven massive armour design, that you used for stuff like Blood Dragon armour too.

Don't know what you mean by basic, but those are just two meshes.

The basic one is the one that most are i.e the same as the chevaliers armor. I just checked them, and it is mainly the helmets that make the difference in my head between the different ones.

And the ancient elven one makes it two kinds of medium in any case, since it is a reskin of the heavy armor if anything.

[In Exile]

BasilKarlo wrote...

I misspoke when I said models. But you're splitting hairs. Reskins of armors tended to look very different. Blood Dragon, Colossus, Sentinel and Cailin's armor all look very different but they're all massive armor. Your argument is baseless.

No, it comes right back to the flavour thing. I don't see a reskin colour pallete as different, just like how I don't see the different talking heads in DA:O as a sign anyone has a different body type. These are things I dislike. It's cool you like them, but appreciate my position is well grounded.

[In Exile]

BrotherWarth wrote...

So looking vastly different means nothing? To you Wade's Dragonbone armor looks the same as the Sentinel or Colossus armor?

But it's not vastly different.


http://i37.tinypic.com/330vdlc.jpgp


I couldn't find a colossus armour picture (don't recall what that looks like) but with sentinel, dragnbone and cailan's look essentially the same.