442 réponses à ce sujet

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Rawgrim wrote...

What in Isabella`s outfit can we enchant? Pray tell. Her shirt? Scarf? Yeah thats nice. A scarf that gives her extra damage vs darkspawn maybe. Or a thong that increases her backstab ability.

Vanishing thong of Revelation.

[Xewaka]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Agreed, some of the massive armours weren't bad, but due to the model frame they generally look distorted. I had a female elf who looked like she was on tip toe inside a suit designed for someone much larger.

I find this very fitting, though. And a bit funny.

[Ryzaki]

Eh. I felt elves wearing massive armor looked ridiculous regardless of gender.

[Maria Caliban]

Xewaka wrote...

ziggehunderslash wrote...

But all of them look ugly.

The armor of the Legion of the Dead was beatiful.

Indeed. Once my PC found it, she never touched another suit of armor.

[Hollingdale]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

As soon as my ability to play the companions differs markedly from my ability to play the PC, the game stops being a party-based game.
DAO already did this to some degree with the dialogue system. I don't want to go any further down that road.

You mean it stops being a party game for you? The fact that you constantly use your own defitions of words makes it kind of a choir debatting with you especially considering that your own defitions usually deviate a lot from those held in general by the community. It's kind of frustrating really because I don't understand your limits of what define a party-based game for you, and so it is difficult for me  to reply to you. I can tell from your post that you seem to think DAO passed this limit in some ways and that that's a bad thing for you. I guess if I take my entire experience of your persona into account then I can make some kind of general judgement regarding why you think this is bad (which is the question that your post begs(?) or raises) but I'll not be likely to hit the mark.
Now I'm not trying to argue for some kind of semantics facism where the general consencus is held to be objective truth, but in conversations I think it's a given that both parties will have to compromise a little and meet halfway, I just think it leads to more productive debattes since it enables us to reach the matter at hand a lot faster without having to go through some sort of process where a mutual understanding has to be established.

Geez I'm probably overstating this A LOT, but I do think I have a point.

Modifié par Hollingdale, 21 novembre 2010 - 03:03 .

[YuniSticksitDeep]

Make no  mistake, in an effort to maximize profit and   minimize outlay of code, time, and dollars, this IS  MASS EFFECT 2 Reskinned.

Why  you all, (most all) don't get it ..... I am  at a loss.

I  have (almost) reached  the "Acceptance" part of  facing bad news.  

It dosen't  mean I have to  buy the  product though.

Cuz if we DO buy it, they  can and WILL say..."see? all those  kittens I kicked, were just about right....  these "customers" will buy anything with a Bioware Label....(No Offense pre-EA Bioware).

In a similarly  shocking vein, look at the NEW and Improved "MAX PAYNE"  screen shots...(but not right after a meal.

Throwing a Name  on a vastly divergent Product and  seeming  surprised we  "resist" is insulting to those who detect it as  such.

Check out my thread for Metacritic Predictions...(after  the no DA:O style changing outfits for our companions IF  TRUE>>) I am revising my PC score to 71. (wait for it).

Strangely this has no  effect on my deep desire  for a Mass Effect  3   (coming soon  with even  LESS sex!!!) yay?

Yuni<3

PS look at COD Black OPs..look at the sales figures..Now read the players reviews filled  with regret, anger and dissappointment.  (But then look back at the sales... Nummy!).  There is almost NO chance  the New and (gurgle) improved  DA2 won't do well...it's just a bullet  that only a select few will manage to dodge.."Matrix Style".

(please don't ban me (whimper).

[Atakuma]

YuniSticksitDeep wrote...

Make no  mistake, in an effort to maximize profit and   minimize outlay of code, time, and dollars, this IS  MASS EFFECT 2 Reskinned.

Why  you all, (most all) don't get it ..... I am  at a loss.

I  have (almost) reached  the "Acceptance" part of  facing bad news.  

It dosen't  mean I have to  buy the  product though.

Cuz if we DO buy it, they  can and WILL say..."see? all those  kittens I kicked, were just about right....  these "customers" will buy anything with a Bioware Label....(No Offense pre-EA Bioware).

In a similarly  shocking vein, look at the NEW and Improved "MAX PAYNE"  screen shots...(but not right after a meal.

Throwing a Name  on a vastly divergent Product and  seeming  surprised we  "resist" is insulting to those who detect it as  such.

Check out my thread for Metacritic Predictions...(after  the no DA:O style changing outfits for our companions IF  TRUE>>) I am revising my PC score to 71. (wait for it).

Strangely this has no  effect on my deep desire  for a Mass Effect  3   (coming soon  with even  LESS sex!!!) yay?

Yuni<3

PS look at COD Black OPs..look at the sales figures..Now read the players reviews filled  with regret, anger and dissappointment.  (But then look back at the sales... Nummy!).  There is almost NO chance  the New and (gurgle) improved  DA2 won't do well...it's just a bullet  that only a select few will manage to dodge.."Matrix Style".

(please don't ban me (whimper).

you sure go out of your way to troll, it's almost admirable.

[Ziggeh]

Mmm, meaningless rhetoric

[Sir JK]

YuniSticksitDeep wrote...
Make no  mistake, in an effort to maximize profit and   minimize outlay of code, time, and dollars, this IS  MASS EFFECT 2 Reskinned.
Why  you all, (most all) don't get it ..... I am  at a loss.

I'll answer that question. Because that argument is simplistic reasoning. It is based on baseless assumtions, sweeping generalisations, the creation of a scapegoat and a general lack of analysis.

Most of us want a sequel to DA:O. Most of us want what was good in DA:O better (if possible) and was bad improved. However, Bioware have to change things to improve. They have to innovate things to improve. Every feature and change have advantages and disadvantages. As much as we'd like to think so, there are no perfect solutions. There are not even optimal solutions. What one person likes another will dislike.

What Bioware does is try to make the sequel better for all of us. Not all of us as individuals but all of us the audience. So they make changes to what they think is for the better. However, since what one person likes another will dislike they cannot please everyone. This is something unavoidable.

Accusing them of being controlled to make a "less of a game" by the "corrupt money-grubbing goblins of EA" is the creation of a scapegoat. It is a simpler argument to accept than that Bioware is making changes to the franchise that might not appeal to you because they think it will make things better. It provides for something to blame.

I'm not saying your opinion of the changes are wrong. Au contraire, they're very valid. As is everyone else's. Both positive and negative. However, accusing Bioware to cut corners and copy ME2 is a very unconstructive way of voicing that.

A much better way would be to put it simple: "I don't particularly like this feature/change". Quite frankly that's all you need to say. Making huge conspiracy theories is pointless, antagonistic and very unhelpful.
The best thing you can do is do analysis. Look at the change, what is it's flaws, it's drawbacks and it's benefits? Look at the past version. What is it's benefits, flaws and drawbacks? Weigh these things against one another. Is the benefit of X worth losing the flaw of Y? Look at it together with other changes and features. Is there any of those that benefit or needs the change?

Let's steer this back to companion outfits as an example of this:
The obvious benefit is unique models, an iconic look, the possibility of using it as characterisation. The obvious drawbacks is that they lose customisation, the look might not be appealing, that they remain similar for 10 years can be jarring. I'm sure a thought through analysis could come up with more.

We then weigh them against each others. Customisation is a very important thing to many, to change the companions to what you prefer. However if customiseable then they lose the ability to use that part for characterisation. So you have to think... is their characterisation more or less important than my ability to customise them?

Then weigh the feature towards other features. Such as the ten year time-span. It will probably include a few time-skips and there's hints that the companions will be going in and out of the party. If that is true, is there not a risk that a partymember might be locked out and you'll be unable to use that epic armour you put on them?  Or will they return the outfit, if so what will they wear if they feature narratively in that time-period? Or will they upgrade armour off-stage where you never had a chance to decide that or not? Does customiseable armour work with this in mind?
That's both useful for the developers and interesting for the rest of us to read and debate.

Bottom line is: DA2 is not ME2. Nor is it DAO. It is DA2. Accusing them for being money-grubbers and/or EA for meddling is both counterproductive and simplistic. Think through and analyse instead. Pinpoint what it is you don't like specifically and argue for it. Discuss it's merits and try to see if it fits with the rest of what we know of DA2. We're all intelligent people here, we can all handle that I am sure.

Modifié par Sir JK, 21 novembre 2010 - 06:56 .

[Schuback]

Ok... Sir JK.... are you on BW's payroll? I want in... Pay me and I'll say whatever and defend BW to the death!!!!

[Sir JK]

Schuback wrote...

Ok... Sir JK.... are you on BW's payroll? I want in... Pay me and I'll say whatever and defend BW to the death!!!!

Now now. That was uncalled for. Am I optimistic? Yes. But mostly I was arguing that people should take their time and explain their issues, discuss the merits and problems with the features and what they prefer and not resort to simplistic argumentation.

If you are of the opinion that they are taking the wrong turn with this game then I will support you voicing and discussing that concern. I might debate it with you, but I wil support you voicing it.

But enough about that. Back to outfits, which is what this topic is about.

[Ryzaki]

See...the thing is I have no problem with static outfits to tell the truth. I have problems with non armor static outfits which is probably what we're getting. If the character's stayed in one suit of armor the whole game I wouldn't care. (Heck I'm pretty much used to it thanks to JRPGs and whenever people don't wear armor they have the setting to go along with it).



...Though now that I think about it in SO3...oh wait nevermind. Those idiots were using swords while you had magic and guns. No need for armor.

[Dave of Canada]

Schuback wrote...

Ok... Sir JK.... are you on BW's payroll?

If somebody that *gasps* argues against poor logic is on BW's payroll, a lot of us should've been hired ages ago.

[upsettingshorts]

Speaking of payrolls, I'd love to be a BioWare shill myself. Sadly I'm already wholly owned subsidiary of the incredible, not at all devious, and extremely ethical Monsanto Company.

Monsanto: Better seed for a brighter future!

[nightcobra]

Sir JK, that has to be one of the most logical and neutral posts i've seen in this forum, i applaud you my good man/woman.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 21 novembre 2010 - 08:01 .

[Schuback]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Speaking of payrolls, I'd love to be a BioWare shill myself. Sadly I'm already wholly owned subsidiary of the incredible, not at all devious, and extremely ethical Monsanto Company.
Monsanto: Better seed for a brighter future!

Haha... we read you loud and clear...

[Schuback]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Sir JK, that has to be one of the most logical and neutral posts i've seen in this forum, i applaud you my good man/woman.

He is a man.

[Xewaka]

Ryzaki wrote...

See...the thing is I have no problem with static outfits to tell the truth. I have problems with non armor static outfits which is probably what we're getting. If the character's stayed in one suit of armor the whole game I wouldn't care. (Heck I'm pretty much used to it thanks to JRPGs and whenever people don't wear armor they have the setting to go along with it).

...Though now that I think about it in SO3...oh wait nevermind. Those idiots were using swords while you had magic and guns. No need for armor.

At least during adventuring, yes. I expect people who know they're probably heading into combat to actually take measures to prevent death and mutilation from such hazards.

[Ortaya Alevli]

YuniSticksitDeep wrote...

Cuz if we DO buy it, they  can and WILL say..."see? all those  kittens I kicked, were just about right....  these "customers" will buy anything with a Bioware Label....(No Offense pre-EA Bioware).

What is your point (if you even have one)? You're on a campaign to drop DA2 sales as much as possible so maybe they'll stop making games the way they want and start making games the way you want? Or what? Just trying to get attention? "I'm being wronged, people! Hear my plea!" Let people recognize the injustice done to you and sympathize with you so you'll...feel better? Ego caressed? What, really? You're such an interesting sociopsychological case, I'll give you that.

[Aldandil]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Sir JK, that has to be one of the most logical and neutral posts i've seen in this forum, i applaud you my good man/woman.

I have to agree with the comment above. Very well written.

I'd also like to add that I personally am hugely disappointed in the design decision. I take much pleasure in finding new armors and distibuting them between my party members. This new system is definitely not one I like.

I do, however, realize that even though they have these companion outfits, the reasoning behind it is not that it will save BioWare work and money, but rather that they think it will please the customers in general. In DA:O, "all" they needed to was design armors after race, male and female. I suppose they kind of get around the race issue now, even though they need to design armors individually for all NPCs now, but they still have to make all the armors work for Hawke, as well as making armors that work for all the different companions. They haven't exactly cut down on the work.

[Xewaka]

Aldandil wrote...

I'd also like to add that I personally am hugely disappointed in the design decision. I take much pleasure in finding new armors and distibuting them between my party members. This new system is definitely not one I like.

The most maddening part is that, from a purely number crunching part, you're still allowed to do this, but it will not reflect on the companions. They took away the fun part in gear progression (seeing how the character looks vary and become more intricate and good looking) while retaining the number-crunching part. The visual cue of progression is lost.

[nightcobra]

Xewaka wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

I'd also like to add that I personally am hugely disappointed in the design decision. I take much pleasure in finding new armors and distibuting them between my party members. This new system is definitely not one I like.

The most maddening part is that, from a purely number crunching part, you're still allowed to do this, but it will not reflect on the companions. They took away the fun part in gear progression (seeing how the character looks vary and become more intricate and good looking) while retaining the number-crunching part. The visual cue of progression is lost.

personally i'd like it if the companion's outfit system to be similar to rogue galaxy's (a ps2 game) armor system in which every party member had 3 to 4 outfits specially tailored to their model.

[Nerivant]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Is it really so out of the realm of possibility that Bioware is only making static outfits simply to cut corners? The excuse that it makes the characters more unique is laughable. Good character development makes characters more unique, which falls to the writing staff and not the design team. I find this blind faith that so many people share to be... irritating.

It makes them look more unique, which is a small part of it.

As for character developement, trusting BioWare to develop their characters isn't blind faith as much as it is an expectation.