92 réponses à ce sujet

[Inarai]

Short version:  This thread is for tactical tips aside from "kite and/or pull" - basically, if you're abusing the AI mechanics, it doesn't belong here.  It might work, but we don't all want to play that way.  Particularily creative talent combos especially welcome.

- Slowing effects: If you slow down a powerful (mostly) melee creature like an Ogre, you can get some breathing room for your talents to recharge, and for people to use healing potions.  It also means that your ranged characters, or anyone you want to hand a bow to for that matter, can start hailing arrows at it with little concern. 
- Stuns:  Offer the same advantage as slows, but with one critical addendum:  free backstabs!
- Heals:  If you're worrying about conserving resources, a good general rule is to keep your characters above the point where they can be one-shotted.
- Stuns and knockdowns like Sheild Bash SHOULD stop casting no matter the creatures stats, but I've yet to test this one.
- Alastair can REALLY screw with enemy mages, so make sure to use him to target them as soon as is practical.  If you can't immediately target a mage, make sure to disable them at least - spells like Paralysis or Force Field work wonders for this.
- A grease trap, set of caltrops, or similar slowing effect at a choking point line up all sorts of area of effect damage - take advantage
- Spell combos, spell combos, spell combos.  Experiment a bit, too.
- Frozen enemies can shatter.  If anyone knows the specific circumsances, please post them.
- Poisonmakers can use weapon coatings to add a good chunk of damage to their attacks.  I suggest using those on tougher enemies.
- Against high armour foes, it's good to swap to a weapon with better armour penetration so you can ignor a certain amount of it, thus dealing more damage-  because all the DPS in theworld is nothing if it doesn't get through.
- I'm not certain of the angles on Dual Weapon sweep, but I've seen enemies 90 degrees to either side be hit once, though not twice, by the attack.  Keep this in mind - if you're swarmed, the right arrangement of damaged enemies can help you thin them out a lot.
- Carefully aimed cones can be used anywhere.

That's me for now.  Anyone else?

[Scyles]

Archer tactics:



-Against single, strong melee targets such as Ogres and Revenants, the Rapid Shot + Suppressing Fire combo will whittle away the enemy's attack rating, causing him to miss more often.

-If an enemy comes within melee range of your archer, hit them with Dirty Fighting and retreat to a ranged position.

-The Ranger Specialization provides your archer with a disposable tank. Have your characters hold position and send the bear in with its Slam attack, then fire away. When the bear dies, summon the wolf.

-Always attack from extreme ranges, instructing your party members to hold position. Let the enemy suffer several volleys of arrows before melee combat begins.

-When melee attackers swarm your party, use Scattering Shot to stun them all, buying your melee troops a free round of attacks, and immediately have your archer retreat to a ranged position during this time. It's always a good idea to have your mage use a spell like Mind Blast shortly after Scattering Shot in order to buy even more free rounds of attack.

-Open doors with stealth or with your Ranger pet.

[Sornin]

The best tactics involve disabling your opponents in some manner; everything else is secondary to that goal, because a disabled opponent cannot hurt you nor help himself.

The best way to disable opponents are with spells, since they affect massive areas. Specifically, Sleep, Mass Paralysis, Blood Wound, Earthquake, and Blizzard are great, though there are a few other good ones, too. If you have a mage with a few of these or, better yet, two mages with a few of these, you can lock down almost every creature on the battlefield for a very long time.

It is almost ridiculous how much devastaton two mages working together can unleash, and has made a lot of the combat rather boring for me. Two heals, two group heals, two Sleeps, two Earthquakes, etc. - you simply will not die and can stop every enemy except ones with immunity, which you just sic your tank on.

On the melee side of things, the choices are somewhat similar - you ultimately want to take talents that debilitate a group of foes. If you want the ultimate tank make yourself or Alistair a sword and shield warrior with the Champion and Templar specializations. You can take War Cry upgraded with Superiority to knock enemies down, and Holy Smite to stun them. This tank is also a mage assassin. If you have Warden's Keep, you can get Blood Fury, too, which is another AoE disabler, bringing your total to three, enough to keep enemies stunned or on their butts for a while. This is in addition to single target talents like Overpower.

Shale has a few great AoE talents that disable enemies, too, and packs a helluva punch, to boot. Though he is ultimately a weak character due to lacking equipment choices and versatility, I love the Mabari and use him, anyway, and his Dread Howl is good AoE stun.

My favourite party is a Champion/Templar sword and shield warrior, two mages with the Spirit Healer specialization and, when possible, Blood Mage, and a rogue of any type mostly to pick locks and spot/disarm traps (Leliana is a good choice because if you go further in the Bard tree you can get Captivating Song, which rocks). This party can handle any encounter, from swarms of minions to dragons, without a single loss, since it can possess over 10 AoE disabling talents that can be used every battle and excellent tanking/healing. The only downside is that other parties can put out more raw damage faster, but on difficulties above normal killing quickly does not work as a tactic.

Anyway, when in doubt, take talents that provide disabling effects and build your strategy around them. It is easier to lock down 10 out of 12 enemies and fight 2 at once than fighting the whole 12 at once, which is what I think a lot of players try to do and then ultimately complain that the game is too hard.

[Duck and Cover]

pulling is not abusing ai mechanics. If they can ambush you, why can't you ambush them?



kiting is abusing, however. But sometimes you don't have much choice. Think of it as running for you life. In cases when they go after my archer, I literally am running for my life.

[Inarai]

Duck and Cover wrote...

pulling is not abusing ai mechanics. If they can ambush you, why can't you ambush them?

kiting is abusing, however. But sometimes you don't have much choice. Think of it as running for you life. In cases when they go after my archer, I literally am running for my life.

There's certainly an argument for that perspective.  But that advice is ubiquitous - I'm hoping to get a thread put together for more advanced tips.

Indicentally - in large groups, try to bring them all in around a single character, and halt them somehow; AoE or cone freezes work nicely.  Best if followed by some sort of sweep attack.

Also, it's often most effective to combine multiple characters' abilities, like Cone of Cold and Dual Weapon Sweep.  Line up the Cone right if you've got enough agression on the twin-weapon character, and away you go. You can nail 5 enemies at once.  I haven't tried it with 2-handed Sweep, but the implications make me smile.

Also, I've seen a wonderful  Threaten>Taunt>Force Field>Crazy AoE damage suggestion out there.

Modifié par Inarai, 13 novembre 2009 - 09:35 .

[Jonkenden]

When fighting animals and ogres try and keep atleast one disabling spell or talent ready on atleast two characters. Reason being the opponents possess attacks that will disable the victim and heavily damage them. You can prevent alot of damage by using a spell or talent to knock the monster off your party member. Shield bash, shield pummel, Pommel strike, Crushing prison and winters grasp are spells/talents I know works for this, alot of others that might do as well

[apoc_reg]

Thanks for the tips guys, keep it up!



I pretty muchuse cone of cold constantly which i find brilliant



So what is Kiting anyway?!

[Daerdor]

Inarai wrote...

...
- Frozen enemies can shatter.  If anyone knows the specific circumsances, please post them.
...

They shatter when hit by a critical hit. I use the following setup:
- Use Morrigan to cast Cone of Cold
- Main character sword/shield uses Overpower since the final hit is a critical one
- Leliana uses Critical shot since it's a critical hit if it connects
- Shale uses Slam since it's a critical hit if it connects

You can set these talents in the Tactics slots with condition 'Enemy - Status - Immobilized' so the party will automatically use those talents while you position Morrigan to a safe spot.

[Wolff Laarcen]

apoc_reg wrote...

So what is Kiting anyway?!

YOU F*CKED UP MY KITING!

sorry, couldn't resist.

[apoc_reg]

....... er what, haha?

[Ovietski]

kiting = running away like a baby whilst ogres and such kill you.

[Wolf Northwind]

KITing = Killing In Transit. AFAIR it originates from some of the very early graphical MMOs.



I don't think this is a necessary tactic at all. the important thing is remembering to make use of the strengths of the characters in your group and do not under-estimate the power of debuffs to swing a fight in your favour. I know there's been a certain amount of discusion of the game being disproportionately difficult in places, but I've honestly had no trouble with sections that have stumped friends.



I put it down to a change in paradigm, you just can't treat combat with the sledgehamer DPS + healer brute force and ignorance approach that worked in the NWN and KotOR games.

[PowerScience]

Kiting means briefly retreating from an ongoing fight in order to shake off (melee) attackers. This is a common tactic used in many MMOs mainly by characters with a low armor rating but great offenive or supporting capabilities, like mages or archers for example. Kiting often leaves the chasing attacker with the choice to either leave his allies behind whilst keeping up the chase or to loose the ability to pressure the kiting character.

Modifié par PowerScience, 13 novembre 2009 - 01:00 .

[Wolff Laarcen]

apoc_reg wrote...

....... er what, haha?

Google "Razorgore is Serious Business"

[Takrandro]

1 other good tactic to couse chaos on the battlefield are the the sleep spells, put a big group to sleep and then do horror/waking nightmare on them and stand back while they tear each other apart, works great, and throw in a fireball in whenever its ready to wittle them down.

1 other tactic i use to stop big groups is 1 opening fireball, while morrigan cast blizzard on them, then pick them off with ranged attacks/non-fire spells. cone of cold is also one of the best spells in the game, really makes then stop in their tracks. Chain Lightning works great also, but is best used to finish of weakend enemies, since the damage it does get quickly reduced, also barely any friendly fire with that spell. the Hex spells are good for boss fights, especially single target boss, Hex of misdirection makes melee targets worthless for a short time while death hex makes it a shopping block for any good non caster damage dealers. the other 2 are good amplify the drain spells as well as to make it more likely enemies get frozen when in a blizzard or CoC.

[Nukenin]

Kiting is the strategic continual retreat of the character who has the enemy's interest (especially if said character can be one-shotted by said enemy), in the hopes that the enemy will stubbornly pursue said character, thus exposing the enemy's flank to attack from carefully positioned sniper fire and backstabbery.

In a world in which tactical preparation can be utterly negated by the enemy's use of cut scenes, it is a valid tactic that is only dismissed with contempt by those who have had the tactic used against them (be it directly or indirectly) in other, more massive and multiplayery games.

My contributions (tongue planted firmly in cheek for most):

Coercion. Max this puppy first, the heck with Combat Training. Throw your weight behind Cunning (Persuade) or Strength (Intimidate). Avoid or prank combat whenever possible. If it does happen, keep out of the way and let your party do the fighting.

Difficulty Easy. Nobody's looking. It doesn't get shouted out across the aether. Do you really want to be forced to a certain party composition just to satisfy the Man? It's one of the most useful tools in your arsenal if you are otherwise stumped in a fight, and is invaluable if you want to liberate yourself and not take a spirit healer for once or spend hours scraping up the elfroot and flasks to support your party's poultrice-brewer.

Trapmastery. Learn how to make traps. Get to the second rank of Stealth (or get all ranks of stealth to effectively work around most of the bigguns). Party holds. Rogue moves ahead, scouts the situation, lays traps appropriately—creating a veritable trail of traps back to the waiting ambush around one or more corners. Bonus points to the rogue for every enemy that falls before the rest of the party sees 'em. (I wish I had the patience and build to do this, but I usually throw points in Coercion .)

Abuse the AI mechanics. Thank the Maker this is a computer game, and not the real deal. Enemies as a rule rely on numbers on top of imbalance to achieve victory, but seldom use intelligence, artificial or otherwise. If playing by the book is getting your party injured, throw out the book, or throw the book at the enemies as it might have an AoE explosive effect.

Power Word Reload. Unless you want to punish your party for their failures, hit that F9 key (or whatever ye've mapped it to) the second a skull appears in place of a portrait. Take that, Final Blow! More seasoned PWR veterans might jump the gun and cast this most powerful magic the second things Don't Go Their Way.

Modifié par Nukenin, 13 novembre 2009 - 01:45 .

[uspec]

my tactic is as following:

1) send in warrior so all enemy engage him
2) taunt em to make sure ALL enemies focus him
3) force field the warrior so hes invulnerable for the duration of the force field
4) while enemies attacking useless into the force field protected warrior, kill em off with rest
5) if force field wares of and still enemies standing, start of with number 2 or 3

im not using a healer in my party

cheers

Modifié par uspec, 13 novembre 2009 - 01:49 .

[Raxxman]

Use cover.



Don't send Melee out to attack lone archers, it could be a trap, rather hit them with arrows/bolts/magic missile and whittle them down. Consider this an exploit if you wish but it's tactical prudence.



Try and position ranged out at an angle instead of right behind the tanks, this will avoid cone attacks that some creatures have, also you can often be safely out of sight of enemy ranged attackers.



Mages single target DPS can out burst melee warriors but melee can do more damage over time, so get your warriors chipping down one target, while the mage bursts down another.



save knockdowns (shield bash/pommel strike) for interupts and when your melee is getting swarmed and you need more breathing room, on nightmare the interupt does no damage, and the knockdown is about the lenght of a swing gaining no real advantage.



Cone of cold is massively overpowered. Abuse it You can place your tanks wide enough apart to avoid hitting them.

[action jim]

cone of cold is my most frequently used spell. cast right off the bat, and overpower/critical hit any baddies i think are weak enough to shatter (usually not orange or higher) then focues on mopping up whoever is left. i also find that the game is easier the more mages are in your party and harder if you use a rogue

[GravityParade]

Shale is a ridiculously overpowered tank for using in conjunction with force field. He has 3 AOE aggro grabbing spells he can use before you put force shield on him. I've seen entire rooms just stick to him. He almost doesn't even need force shield except in extreme situations and against heavy magic enemys. The Physical attack enemies just tickle him. I guess the disadvantage to shale is that he has no knockdown protection. He will get knocked down a lot and that's the main reason he can fail to pick up aggro. Early stuns, disables and knockdowns can make things go awry.

Modifié par GravityParade, 13 novembre 2009 - 02:59 .

[Pvt_Ryan]

Get a shield tank to use shield wall and take as much agro as possible.

force field tank.

blizzard the guys around him, then if you can cast death cloud/tempest/inferno. Works alot better with 2 mages as you can time the focefield to be just before the blizzard is cast or start casting death cloud/tempest/inferno about a second after blizzard.



Then just pick off the ones with the lowest health using archers/general magic..

[TheSwamper]

Another tip is to have your rogue stealth close and hit em with the grenades. As he runs back to his teammates, have the mage aoe the group that is following him. Fighters, clean up on aisle six.

[Amphrite]

Nukenin wrote...

Kiting is the strategic continual retreat of the character who has the enemy's interest (especially if said character can be one-shotted by said enemy), in the hopes that the enemy will stubbornly pursue said character, thus exposing the enemy's flank to attack from carefully positioned sniper fire and backstabbery.

In a world in which tactical preparation can be utterly negated by the enemy's use of cut scenes, it is a valid tactic that is only dismissed with contempt by those who have had the tactic used against them (be it directly or indirectly) in other, more massive and multiplayery games.

My contributions (tongue planted firmly in cheek for most):

Coercion. Max this puppy first, the heck with Combat Training. Throw your weight behind Cunning (Persuade) or Strength (Intimidate). Avoid or prank combat whenever possible. If it does happen, keep out of the way and let your party do the fighting.

Difficulty Easy. Nobody's looking. It doesn't get shouted out across the aether. Do you really want to be forced to a certain party composition just to satisfy the Man? It's one of the most useful tools in your arsenal if you are otherwise stumped in a fight, and is invaluable if you want to liberate yourself and not take a spirit healer for once or spend hours scraping up the elfroot and flasks to support your party's poultrice-brewer.

Trapmastery. Learn how to make traps. Get to the second rank of Stealth (or get all ranks of stealth to effectively work around most of the bigguns). Party holds. Rogue moves ahead, scouts the situation, lays traps appropriately—creating a veritable trail of traps back to the waiting ambush around one or more corners. Bonus points to the rogue for every enemy that falls before the rest of the party sees 'em. (I wish I had the patience and build to do this, but I usually throw points in Coercion .)

Abuse the AI mechanics. Thank the Maker this is a computer game, and not the real deal. Enemies as a rule rely on numbers on top of imbalance to achieve victory, but seldom use intelligence, artificial or otherwise. If playing by the book is getting your party injured, throw out the book, or throw the book at the enemies as it might have an AoE explosive effect.

Power Word Reload. Unless you want to punish your party for their failures, hit that F9 key (or whatever ye've mapped it to) the second a skull appears in place of a portrait. Take that, Final Blow! More seasoned PWR veterans might jump the gun and cast this most powerful magic the second things Don't Go Their Way.

This is my favorite thing ever.

[Sic Jake]

When facing mobs with one caster, I will start the battle off by casting paraylze on them. If I don't think I'll be able to take down the remaining mobs in time before the mage gets free, I'll send Sten out there with his big sword to take them down. In cases where there are two casters, when is locked down with paraylze, the other is ganked by Sten and pommel strike which interupts casting.



Alistair is a great tank, I usually leave him alone to do his thing, I do have in his tactics however a switch from Shield Defense to Shield Wall when facing Elite or higher mobs, simply so he gets more armor to defend against the higher damage.



Moriggan is my party's spirit healer, in order to have her as an effective AI Heal bot, first have one tactic that uses the regular heal spell when an ally is under %25 health, below that slot add another same conditions, but to use Mass Heal. I find normally if she needs to pop off a second heal so fast that it's within cool down of the normal heal, then my party is likely needing that mass heal. So far it's working quite well. I haven't been able to find a good AI use/condition for regeneration tho.

[JHorwath]

My party consists of Two rogues, a tank, and a healer. One rogue is more melee oriented while the other leans more toward archery. In most of my battles I have the tank engage the enemy while the archers stay back. The mage heals and once in a while will cast earthquake or stone fist. I don't really have a set way to play because many of the boss encounters and random map encounters are unique and require differrent means of combat.



A few things I try to do that work are to use archery against the mages. Help the tank by stunning targets to give him some relief. I like this tactic but it doesn't work that often. After my tank uses shield bash the enemy flies away from the tank. I try to then pin the enemy with the pinning shot. If successful that will keep the baddy away from the tank for a few seconds.



Timing your taunts. Save your taunts for after you use your big damage moves.



Timing your heal spells. Sometimes the difference between life and death can be the cool down time of your heal spells. Currently I have three. A basic heal, group heal, and regen. Try to space out the casts so that the cool down is staggered. You don't want all your heals to be cooling down at the same time. Cast regen, then wait, then heal, then wait, then group heal, then wait. Get the cool down times rolling so you always have some form of heal spell ready.



*If your having trouble with a battle don't turn the difficulty down. Keep trying and disect the battle. Chances are if you study the outcome and the flow of things you will see a weakness in the enemy. Something like well if I would of done this and that maybe things would of worked out. Maybe if I cast earthquake now instead of then. Or, hmm, maybe if I save the taunt or turn off this sustained talent that might help.



*Just try and get a good solid base of tactics and then go with the flow of the battle.