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UNC assignments vs N7 missions


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#51
Nizzemancer

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Pepper4 wrote...

Randy1083 wrote...

Because most of them took place in almost the exact same bunker with some crates moved around, not because of their content. And the Mako wasn't the problem, either, it was the poorly designed terrain.

The Mako DID suck. The fights with the mako were boring as hell. The Hammerhead is much more fun to control, and they designed a nice terrain for it in Overlord. The problem is that they refuse to give it decent shields and secondary fire.


You live in opposite-land, the MAko is far superior to the Hammerhead in every way form or shape.

#52
Terastar

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I disliked the way you were given the mission and ended the mission in Mass Effect 2 but I liked the overall side quests of Mass Effect 2 better than Mass Effect. I loved the beauty of Mass Effect. I don't mine the Mako. I did find going diagonally up mountains worked better and faster than trying to go straight up them. I didn't mine the shuttle drop or the Hammerhead once I learned the controls of the Hammerhead. I really missed squad banter in Mass Effect 2. In Mass Effect I never felt rushed to do the side quests. It always seemed to my Shepard that the mission was two fold. Scan the planets and do odd missions for Hackett and look for Saren for the Council. Now after Virmer it got personal and my pace stepped up to get Saren. For Mass Effect 2 the pace seems really rushed for the whole game it almost makes my Shepard not want to do anything but get my group and then do their loyalty missions only. No time for anything else. No squad banter while on any missions. Cerberus brought you back to do a job so get her done seems the theme of this game.

I hope in Mass Effect 3 some sort of middle ground can be found using this best of both games.

#53
SmokeyPSD

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To be honest, I hated the vehicles in both. The Hammerhead just felt shoved in to try and quell the obvious moaning that I've observed on the forums about no Mako, the missions were shallow and lame. All the while the original Mako controlled terrible. Like an old arcade game, a poorly designed one at that. I found exploring in it repetitive aswell. In both cases the vehicle gameplay let the games beautiful presentation and story down.



In my opinion I'd be happy with no vehicle and all energy is put into the worlds of the galaxy and making it as vibrant and organic as possible.

#54
TMA LIVE

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Well, ME1 had more the 20, and ME2 had 19. So why no just make 10 N7, and focus on them being great. And for people that want mindless combat? Put in a VR room somewhere.

#55
dizzy dj

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I really like the N7 missions, but I agree with people already posting that there was a lack of dialogue and exploration that the UNC ones had. I felt more involved in the Overlord DLC as you had converations, people that you could talk too, like the Bring Down the Sky DLC for ME1.



I'm always going to feel more involved when there is someone in the mission with a face and a name, rather than reading someone's last words or some of their random thoughts on datapads.

#56
yanquis1983

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the mako is so badass and i'd be happy to have one or the equivalent on board but nothing like for the purposes of ME1 where its a prerequisite to spend 15 minutes wheeling it around for every freaking mission just to get to the good stuff. i do love the shift-shift cannon zoom and the fact that its so indestructible. ME3 could have a few missions where a vehicle is required for whatever reason (i HATED -all- the hammerhead missions, even though i liked overlord overall...it was just so tedious)...that'd hopefully placate both groups & most importantly, myself.

#57
yanquis1983

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SmokeyPSD wrote...

To be honest, I hated the vehicles in both. The Hammerhead just felt shoved in to try and quell the obvious moaning that I've observed on the forums about no Mako, the missions were shallow and lame. All the while the original Mako controlled terrible. Like an old arcade game, a poorly designed one at that. I found exploring in it repetitive aswell. In both cases the vehicle gameplay let the games beautiful presentation and story down.

In my opinion I'd be happy with no vehicle and all energy is put into the worlds of the galaxy and making it as vibrant and organic as possible.

that's a bit of a conundrum because without making the game extremely frustrating on foot you are going to be confined to very narrow paths...overlord DID do a good job at points of giving us some nice scenery (as the AI announced).  

#58
Tarrek723

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I believe that ME2's missions were better from a design point, but they did not have the charm of ME1. It was this mood that the soundtrack (and sometimes lack thereof) and long periods of nothingness gave. Take that slow pace of ME1 and put the same amount of work and design savvy into at least a good portion of ME3's side quests and you'll hit pay dirt.



Save most of the hectic firefights and crazy explosions for the main story and related side quests. N7/UNC missions can be more episodic, making your more relaxed with your ship and crew. A lot of people seem to be bothered by side quests being unrelated to the main story, especially if it is an urgent matter at hand. That doesnt really make sense to me for one simple reason: space is HUGE.



The Mass relays allow for near instantaneous travel across long distances, but not within star systems. In the mass effect universe your ship still has a lot of "hoofing it" to do across the clusters around relays, which takes a lot of time, even if you dont notice it from the perspective of your television screen.



This might help illustrate what I mean a little better. I always thought of Mass Effect's sidequests like episodes of Star Trek, whereas the main plot is more like a big budget sci fi movie. The side quests are somewhat standalone and resolve themselves and dont have as much work put in to them in order to produce large quantities of them. The main plot is more dramatic, has a bigger budget, and continues on past the individual segments.

#59
RiouHotaru

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TMA LIVE wrote...

Well, ME1 had more the 20, and ME2 had 19. So why no just make 10 N7, and focus on them being great. And for people that want mindless combat? Put in a VR room somewhere.


They did, in ME1.

It was called Pinnacle Station *shot*

#60
Nightwriter

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It's especially unfortunate they couldn't put some ME1 style stories into the N7 missions because I'd like to see ME2's superior dialogue acting and animations used to tell a more immersive and interesting side story.

#61
Pacifien

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Nightwriter wrote...
It's especially unfortunate they couldn't put some ME1 style stories into the N7 missions because I'd like to see ME2's superior dialogue acting and animations used to tell a more immersive and interesting side story.

What makes it an ME1 style story?

#62
Terror_K

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Pacifien wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
It's especially unfortunate they couldn't put some ME1 style stories into the N7 missions because I'd like to see ME2's superior dialogue acting and animations used to tell a more immersive and interesting side story.

What makes it an ME1 style story?


I'm guessing dialogue, characters and interesting curcumstances over merc shooting and datapad collecting with everybody so quiet you could hear a fly fart.

#63
Christmas Ape

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Terror_K wrote...
I'm guessing dialogue, characters and interesting curcumstances over merc shooting and datapad collecting with everybody so quiet you could hear a fly fart.

You skipped over "takes place in one of two nearly featureless structures" and "takes three times as long to get to as it does to complete".

#64
Giggles_Manically

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I liked the N7 missions fine, but they could have had some dialouge like missions in ME1 did.



Its a little lame to have a silent VOed main protagonist in a lot of missions.

#65
Quething

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Tarrek723 wrote...

A lot of people seem to be bothered by side quests being unrelated to the main story, especially if it is an urgent matter at hand. That doesnt really make sense to me for one simple reason: space is HUGE. [...] I always thought of Mass Effect's sidequests like episodes of Star Trek, whereas the main plot is more like a big budget sci fi movie. The side quests are somewhat standalone and resolve themselves and dont have as much work put in to them in order to produce large quantities of them. The main plot is more dramatic, has a bigger budget, and continues on past the individual segments.


I sort of think I see what you're saying, if you're talking along the lines of DS9 rather than TOS/TNG, or a show like, oh, Alias or A:tLA or whatever, where there's a season-long main arc which sometimes has entire episodes devoted to it, and also a lot of self-contained episodes inbetween that don't really advance it. And that certainly does have quite a few virtues as a system. It adds variety and lets the writers do different things and lets us see characters in different ways, it helps pace the wider arc and give it a strong, slow build-up, it gives the impression that we're looking at a whole wide authentic world and not a narrow setpiece with nothing behind the walls but empty space.

The thing is, episodic TV designs main plots specifically for that format; that is, they're generally written so they can't progress any faster than they do. The good guys can't just march up and take out the bad guys in the first three episodes because they don't know the bad guys are even planning anything until mid-season, or it takes them time to find out where the bad guys are, or they're waiting on resources that nothing they can do will make show up any faster. So it makes sense that they're sitting on their thumbs or worrying about prom or whatever, because as dire as the situation is, there's nevertheless nothing they can do about it at exactly that moment.

In something like Mass Effect, though, the main plot is always available to you. You know, from the minute you leave the Citadel in ME1, of three leads to check out. The instant you've finished the second one, you're given a fourth. As soon as you finish the fourth, you can hit the endgame. There's no point at which your character is incapable of moving the plot forward - and considering the urgency of that plot, it feels either irresponsible or metagame-y (or both) to ignore the impending doom of the galaxy just to prove that space is big.

This, actually, is something ME2 made a pretty smart stab at (I think the execution failed, but major points for trying). You spend the game waiting on intel from TIM; you genuinely can't move against the Collectors until he gives it to you, and as soon as you can, you do. At any point in between Freedom's Progress and Horizon, or Horizon and the Collector Ship, you really don't have anything better to do than sidequests. It's a really fluid way to do it and helps verisimillitude immensely - there were just problems with the implementation (for one, it's bad that as a player, you don't know what will trigger Horizon until it happens. For two and more important, tying a no-choice event like that to TIM's orders was a huge fail. At the very least, give us a conversation option to hang up on him in a snit, then have Joker ask "are we really going to not help that colony" to which Shep responds "of course we are, but you of all people should understand the need to be petty about a situation you don't like". Player control, it's essential).

#66
Pacifien

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I really do miss that option to just hang up... :)

#67
Iakus

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Christmas Ape wrote...
]You skipped over "takes place in one of two nearly featureless structures" and "takes three times as long to get to as it does to complete".


I think that part's covered under Nightwriter's

" I'd like to see ME2's superior dialogue acting and animations used to tell a more immersive and interesting side story. "

#68
TMA LIVE

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I actually prefer that they lock you into doing a main mission at a certain point if the story is about being in a hurry. Too many times they say you have a time limit, and your mission is important, yet you spend hours doing minor things.



However, it still would be cool to have mega side missions. Kind of like the DLC missions, except they're not DLC.

#69
CalJones

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It's annoying when you're halfway through the Ilium recruitment missions and suddenly you have to go to the collector ship. Aside from that I don't much mind being sent to Horizon or the collector ship or wherever.

Back to the original topic. the N7 missions generally feel small compared to the UNC missions. I suppose that wouldn't be the case if you just landed, went straight down to the bunker/prefab and did your stuff and left, but even after umpteen playthroughs I feel compelled to go searching for all the minerals/asari capsules/downed satellites that inexplicably contain ammo upgrades/thresher maws/shifty cows and whatever else you might find. So that tends to take a little while. (For the record, I didn't mind the Mako, though I'm on PC and I believe the Xbox people had a harder time with it. I don't much care for the Hammerhead though - it's flimsy and firing the gun is just a pain in the finger. The Mako's canon and machinegun were much nicer to use).

As the OP says, I do miss the unwordly feel of some of the planets. The environments in ME2 are very nice, but almost all of them could be on Earth. Even the notorious Sinmara seems to have an atmosphere, despite being a moon.

I also miss Admiral Hackett or Joker giving you the mission. "Anomaly detected" doesn't really have the same motivation.

Still, I thought the N7 shooty missions were pretty fun. ME2 does get the combat right. And it's nice to have your gun fights in different environments rather than the same cookie cutter bunker or prefab.

#70
IndigoWolfe

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I find that in most cases, asking if the UNC or the N7 missions are better than the other is asking if either the flavor of peanut butter or chocolate is better. They're both good, but they can create something truly sublime together.



The side missions in ME1 had the scope you'd see in planetary exploration, and it also had the story aspects. But ME2 had the necessary richness that turns uncharted planets into uncharted *worlds* and more of a sense of direction. If these things could be combined, I think it would make side missions in ME3 something really special.

#71
InvaderErl

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I'm not into grinding so the UNC missions hold no appeal to me, I know people like to go on about exploration but there's nothing to explore. If there were things to do on them aside from salvaging everything you come across and fighting mercs in reused levels over and over I would probably replay ME1 more. That's not exploration, running around the Wasteland in Fallout is exploration, the UNC was busy work. The N7 missions were pretty shallow  for the most part to be honest but at least they're not so time consuming.

They should honestly do away with them altogether and just make a optional side-quest planet or two.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 29 octobre 2010 - 09:06 .


#72
Nightwriter

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Terror_K wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
It's especially unfortunate they couldn't put some ME1 style stories into the N7 missions because I'd like to see ME2's superior dialogue acting and animations used to tell a more immersive and interesting side story.

What makes it an ME1 style story?


I'm guessing dialogue, characters and interesting curcumstances over merc shooting and datapad collecting with everybody so quiet you could hear a fly fart.


Nailed it in one.

#73
Christmas Ape

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iakus wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...
]You skipped over "takes place in one of two nearly featureless structures" and "takes three times as long to get to as it does to complete".

I think that part's covered under Nightwriter's
"I'd like to see ME2's superior dialogue acting and animations used to tell a more immersive and interesting side story. "

I got the impression we were just naming things we thought about Mass Effect side-missions, as I'm not sure what was especially interesting about "pirates attacked a freighter".

#74
Pacifien

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I'm trying to figure out how the Helena Blake mission wasn't merc shooting.

#75
Christmas Ape

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And yet Hostile Takeover remains one of my favorite ME sidequests, because it raises interesting questions.