472 réponses à ce sujet

[Merced256]

Goddess Of Boobs wrote...

@AtreiyanN7

Chill out, bompie. Sorry I don't take this form with 100% UN seriousness.

you should bro cause some bro will come up in here and troll your spelling like seriously

[upsettingshorts]

Goddess Of Boobs wrote...

UN serious

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 28 octobre 2010 - 02:23 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Goddess Of Boobs wrote...

This is the real world. They cut content to release for DLC. No doubt. Should be common knowledge (It's like Religon). Whether it should be wrong or right is the real disscusion.

And if you actually want to sneak into EA headquarters and/or any of BW facilities and bring back some actual proof or evidence that they're deliberately trying to shaft the consumers, I'll be here waiting to hear back from you. You'll note that I've never said that it's not possible that companies haven't engaged in this practice, because I believe that it's quite possible that some companies have done this. I just don't extrapolate from ONE situation or ONE experience and become suspicious of all companies.

What I said was that I trust the BW devs a fair bit because of past experiences with them and that I take them at their word. I also have kind of a scientific bent. Therefore, my outlook on things is that I like to have empirical data and actual facts or strong evidence to base arguments on. I don't just say something like "religion" is common knowledge. I wonder what you're implying by that - that everyone should believe in a specific deity, or else? At any rate, let's kindly leave the religion and/or politics out of this. That sort of thing only results in getting threads locked.

Oh its not limited to just Bioware, not by a long shot. I too have enjoyed Bioware's past games, I wouldn't be on this social site if I didn't. But with that being said, I'm also not blindly devoted to them, in love with every questionable design decision, or hang on every word out of Gaider and company like its the second coming like some do around here.

Lets keep things in perspective.

[EmperorSahlertz]

So what is the problem here exactly? That BioWare is awarding a person who already now is willing to place faith in their product and preordering? Or that some smuck is butthurt about not having a piece of the pie too?



Why shouldn't BioWare be allowed to do what they damn well please about their own product? If they want to chop it up into little pieces and sell it to us one piece at a time, it's their choice. If they want to give it away for free (none of you would be complaining then I'd wager) it's their choice.



What we have here is some people having a hard time adjusting to a market where we are willing to pay extra for the little things, like an extra character, even if it theoretically, with a hint of possiblity and luck, possibly could have been in the game.

Some call this sad. Some people call it the evolution of the free market. Others shrug and give up their lunch, for the DLC, and go on their merry way.

[Riona45]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...


Hmm, I'm pretty sure that it would only be sarcastic if he weren't firmly on the side of the OP and Sarah, etc. As far as I can tell, he actually believes the same thing that the OP's saying. As a result, my interpretation is that he actually meant that religion line seriously, but maybe I read all his previous posts incorrectly. *shrug*

Oh, I see.  Nevermind then--I think you are correct. 

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Morroian wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

If people honestly believe content doesn't get cut to be used as DLC later on, they're more naive than I thought. It happens all the time these days.

I dunno why its so hard to believe that they might plan for a reward scheme up front and develop it separately or alongside the main game. Now that is common sense and hardly naive.

If by reward scheme you mean EA's Project Ten Dollar to combat used sales, you'd be spot on. Lets be honest, thats what the extra character will more than likely be.

[Lord_Valandil]

This thread is pure gold.

[upsettingshorts]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

This thread forum is pure gold.

There's a reason my signature is the Shadowrama.  The ":happy:" is practically implied in all of my posts, provided the reader has seen Mystery Science Theater 3000.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 28 octobre 2010 - 02:32 .

[slimgrin]

shnizzler93 wrote...

"Trolling in a troll thread is like wetting black pants. No one notices, but you still get a warm feeling."

Glorious quote. I wet myself all the time. 

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

This thread is pure gold.

http://www.presstheb...nasty-turn.html 
http://www.eurogamer...ollar-explained
Educate yourself.

[Wicked 702]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I just don't extrapolate from ONE situation or ONE experience and become suspicious of all companies.

Right, because that would be a logical fallacy. Fallacy of Composition I believe.

It seems like this discussion has focused mainly on the "did Bioware cut content to make DLC" argument of the OP's post and has mostly ignored his other point for a while. That being does packaging this content as part of a pre-order bonus (taking the assumption that it will not be offered later in some form), thereby limiting the amount of time people have to evaluate the game's merits (and yes, I'm not ignoring the fact that you can pre-order now and cancel later if you decide not to buy, but that option is not available to all and for the sake of discussion is irrelevant), speak poorly of Bioware in any way or does it matter?

I personally think it does, somewhat. But my concerns are of a nature that I am personally affected by this decision so that may play a part. As the OP has said, I don't mind the idea of packaging DLC or whatever to encourage new game sales as opposed to used game sales. But after the absolute bug-fest that DAO was, despite it's excellent everything else, I'm forced to wonder if this isn't Bioware's "secret plan" (good ol' marketing ebil) to semi-trick those disillusioned customers who've railed on these forums in the past (me included) into buying another technical quality failure.

[Lord_Valandil]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

This thread is pure gold.

http://www.presstheb...nasty-turn.html 
http://www.eurogamer...ollar-explained
Educate yourself.

I know about it. No need to educate me, thank you.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 28 octobre 2010 - 02:35 .

[aaniadyen]

Merced256 wrote...

aaniadyen wrote...

AdamNW wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Goddess Of Boobs wrote...
This is the real world. They cut content to release for DLC. No doubt. Should be common knowledge (It's like Religon).

Yeah, that made me lol really hard too.

I don't get it?

BDF joke hur hur, no really i think it was the reference to religion. Which is funny too given how people are asked to believe in it without anything other than hollow words.

Noone asks you to believe in a faith. If they do, they are off base. Any decent priest wouldn't push anyone into believing what they did.

Besides, that's some excellent logic to go off of. "Hey, you know that company that makes all those awesome games we love?" "Yeah?" "They suck now because they're giving free content that they cut from the game to certain people only!" "Really? How do you know?" "My super internet tough guy, down with the man attitude!"

<_< How are you any different?

[AtreiyaN7]

Goddess Of Boobs wrote...

@AtreiyanN7

Chill out, bompie. Sorry I don't take this forum with 100% UN seriousness.

And I'm a female........bek.

Yeah, and I'm female too, but many people here are guys, so I tend to refer to people I don't know as "guy" or "he" unless/until they indicate otherwise. It's the first time I've ever seen you, so my bad there. Anyhow, please don't play the politically correct card. I'm hardly some uptight PC lunatic.

You're saying is some sort of certainty/common knowledge just like is. I pointed it out because A) I disagree with the implied argument and  once anyone here starts unintentionally sliding down that slippery slope it tends to get threads locked - end of story. If you actually want to come up with a good response to what I said though, please do.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 28 octobre 2010 - 03:17 .

[NKKKK]

Project ten dollar? I didn't know this actually had a name.

[AtreiyaN7]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

This thread forum is pure gold.

There's a reason my signature is the Shadowrama.  The ":happy:" is practically implied in all of my posts, provided the reader has seen Mystery Science Theater 3000.

I miss Tom Servo and Crow - I bet they'd have a field day in these forums.

[JeCy108]

Doesnt bother me if this is what they wanna do..   

If you want it early pay a bit more,..

If you want it all and to pay less, then wait till the final game version is boxed and released.


Its as simple as that. 


But a big thanks to all those people that pre-order, and buy up DLC's and expansions, so they can sink a bit more money into the game and decide if they wanna add an expansion and extra DLC. and thanks to all those people, we get a bigger game in the end.  Then the company when all is said and done, publishes the new box/disk  (ususally entitled, Silver,  gold, or platnium, or complete, Mega, or some combo of the previous names mentioned)  You can be happy knowing that this game will have tons of hours of gaming goodness..


To me its sorta like saying..  Darn movie theaters ripping me off, 20 bucks for tickets, and 20 bucks for pop corn and a soda..  I could spend 1 dollar at red box and make my own popcorn for 50 cents !!  So wait 6 months to a year and do that. 

your free to wait  a year or 2 or so down the road for that final game to come down in price and hear all the reviews you wanna see.  Its like baldures gate..  I can go buy it and the expansion for 10 bucks of gog.com right now.  doesnt mean paying 40 bucks and 20 for the expansion 12 years ago was a bad decission..

[StingingVelvet]

JohnEpler wrote...

As I've posted before - I think part of the fault lies in the fact that most people aren't really aware of the timeline required for game development. There's a good chunk of time at the end where the content that goes on-disc cannot be touched because the game is in certification - that is, getting various companies (usually the console manufacturers and our own publisher) to approve our game for release.

Indeed, many people don't get that.

As I said in the other thread though, and as I know Bioware understands, sometimes it is more about how things are perceived by the customer than it is how things actually are.  Customers look at release-period DLC and pre-order DLC as stuff that should be in the main game, whether that is accurate or not.  It's up to you guys to decide whether that misconception is worth reversing direction or not... I am assuming not since you're doing it for a third time.

[Tiax Rules All]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

This thread forum is pure gold.

There's a reason my signature is the Shadowrama.  The ":happy:" is practically implied in all of my posts, provided the reader has seen Mystery Science Theater 3000.

I miss Tom Servo and Crow - I bet they'd have a field day in these forums.

Mystery Science Theater 3000 is classic goodness.

[In Exile]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Your welcome, but honestly if you think publishers like EA, Activision, and Ubisoft aren't doing those sort of things to offset the continual rising development costs, well you're pretty damned naive.

Of course they are. They have to, because actually raising the cost of games to cover the cost of development would cause a riot. When a $95 video game comes out instead of a $60 one, someone is liable to get stabbed. It is just not going to happen because people are so resistant to price changes.

The cost of development is a huge part of why certain genres have just died as AAA releases - they cannot sell enough units to cover their cost of production anymore.

The problem is that DLC sold to offset cost and reduce resales isn't equivalent to ripped out content, because it makes far more sense to develop it entirely separately from the game.

Put another way, Bioware always wanted their DLC to be DLC - it was never going to be in the main game. Like AlanC9 said, no one sits aroung picking out features that would be awesome to rip out and resell as DLC. They just make it DLC from the start.

[Icinix]

I'm at work, so missed the best past of this. But just wanted to get in again and say how much I think what they're doing is a good thing.



People who get in early and pay the full price, and have a little faith, deserve to be rewarded. Bring it on I say. More good stuff for the early birds.

[In Exile]

Wicked 702 wrote...
 That being does packaging this content as part of a pre-order bonus (taking the assumption that it will not be offered later in some form), thereby limiting the amount of time people have to evaluate the game's merits (and yes, I'm not ignoring the fact that you can pre-order now and cancel later if you decide not to buy, but that option is not available to all and for the sake of discussion is irrelevant), speak poorly of Bioware in any way or does it matter?

I don't think it does, but then I've realized that my purchasing habits are very different from other games. I very rarely buy games. Releases like New Vegas, Fable III - these are rentals for me. Games interesting enough to play and beat, but games that have no replay value. This is why an Xbox 360 is invaluable to me - it allows me to rent games, so I can see the content for the short period it can keep me entertained relative to the money value of it and then I can simply move on.

When I choose to purchase a game, especially as a pre-order, I do it only because I have a prior business relationship with a company. With Bioware, I had played NWN, KoTOR,  and JE. I only purchased KoTOR and JE after renting them. JE I purchased almost a year after, having been so dissapointed in how much it lacked in customizability.

Mass Effect was the first Bioware game I pre-ordered (as a regular edition). I only began to purchase CEs once I really had confidence in the quality of the products for the company. Now, with DA2, Bioware has my full confidence as a consumer. I do not need time to evaluate their product - I simply believe in their capability to produce. I, personally, have yet to be let down. If Bioware does let me down with DA2, I would be willing to consider giving them another chance with a pre-order after more information (to see if they avoid repeating features I disliked). If they don't, I will no longer pre-order their games.

To me, the SE at the same cost as a regular edition but with the content of a CE is a phenomenal reward - because I would purchase their game on the sole basis of my relationship with them as a company, and this is a great opportunity for me to save money.

I suppose other people look at buying games as something way more casual; I suppose in that case a pre-order is not a sign of confidence in the company but just a way to get a game you like on day 1 (I rent in those cases).

[Fishy]

Stanley Woo wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...
I don't mind when they create DLC AFTER the game is finished, but I do mind removing portions of the game created before release and selling them separately.

Shale is a perfect example of a DLC that contained content that was originally in the game. The content was removed due to not having enough time/resources to finish it, but due to the delay in DAO's release, it was decided to finish the content and release it as DLC. Based on your post, you would prefer that the excised Shale content never see the light of day ever because it was originally in the main game!

Aside from that, I think we can manage our own time and resources and develop the content we need when we need to, thank you. We can't very well have developers just sitting around twiddling their thumbs just because of a perception that we're doing something inappropriate. Developers get restless.

Easy enough to understand .. But you work for EA.I have a hard time to believe you.
Why bioware why?

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY???????????????????It's was not good enough for you to be independant?



if you work for EA.You're like a politician to me.

Modifié par Suprez30, 28 octobre 2010 - 04:01 .

[Snelle Jaap]

Big Blue Car wrote...

http://dragonage.bioware.com/da2/info/

Pre-order the game on blind faith, before any real reviews or critical opinions are released, and you get free content. Don't and you won't.

It's the best method to trick fans into buying a product before they can make an informed choice about it I can think of.

That
a hundred times that.

[MadLaughter]

a character for preordering is different. Bioware are requiring people to make the jump and order the game before it is reviewed and before consumers can make an informed decision.