472 réponses à ce sujet

[FieryDove]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

If by reward scheme you mean EA's Project Ten Dollar to combat used sales, you'd be spot on. Lets be honest, thats what the extra character will more than likely be.

I've already said that. The new character will be free ala shale to all new copies of the game. This is just a marketing scheme. (Ebil CP must have thought it up).

If it turns out that everyone who didn't pre-order by the 11th has to buy it...I'll eat my hat. Oh and after a run to the hospital to get all betters think about it then -100000000 approval to Bio not to mention my faith will have waned....greatly.

Gimmicky items have been around a long time no biggie but a full character...no, that;s just...no.

Also (This is to the general thread)-

I was thinking, day1 dlc, plus close after release dlc is probably encouraged by the fact according to BIo's metrics most gamers play a game once, so any extras should be ready as fast as possible to draw as many in as they can. Yes? No?

[Sable Rhapsody]

Dave of Canada wrote...

akabane_k wrote...

This whole thing is a simple risk-reward tradeoff

Hell, they can simply preorder and cancel it near release if reviews aren't favorable.

Voila: Free content if you get it, no content if you don't.

That's exactly what I'm doing.  It takes about five extra seconds and gives the best of both worlds.

[LarryDavid]

First of all I don't think Bioware cuts content to sell it afterward. Secondly I can't see what is fundamentally wrong with it. They offer a game for a certain price; based on all the information you have, you decide if you are going to buy it or not. Same with the DLC they release.



There is nothing dishonest about cutting out for instance the 'Nature of the Beast' quest and releasing it afterward. The only thing Bioware should be concerned about is maximizing their profit without compromising their values. So if they don't cut out content (because THEY think it is morally dishonest) , spend resources on providing a forum, feedback, ... the logical reaction is to be thankful. The funny thing is that the ones that claim Bioware to be greedy, are the ones that are greedy as they demand things they don't have the right on (certain content) , whereas Bioware only obtains money by selling content for a price people are willing to pay.

[Taura-Tierno]

LarryDavid wrote...

First of all I don't think Bioware cuts content to sell it afterward. Secondly I can't see what is fundamentally wrong with it. They offer a game for a certain price; based on all the information you have, you decide if you are going to buy it or not. Same with the DLC they release.

There is nothing dishonest about cutting out for instance the 'Nature of the Beast' quest and releasing it afterward. The only thing Bioware should be concerned about is maximizing their profit without compromising their values. So if they don't cut out content (because THEY think it is morally dishonest) , spend resources on providing a forum, feedback, ... the logical reaction is to be thankful. The funny thing is that the ones that claim Bioware to be greedy, are the ones that are greedy as they demand things they don't have the right on (certain content) , whereas Bioware only obtains money by selling content for a price people are willing to pay.

Well, since 'Nature of the Beast' is sort of crucial for the main story, that would be dishonest. If we've paid for a game, it's pretty bad to leave out central parts of the story and offer them as additional DLC that cost money. It would be like ordering a sofa, only to find out, upon delivery, that the cushions have to be bought separetely. You can still sit on it, but you'd still feel like you'd been cheated.

But I agree with what you mean, even though I don't like your example I support the idea of DLC, and I don't think there's anything wrong with a pre-order character, or that they did anything wrong with Shale. Better to get stuff as DLC than not get them at all, as long as they aren't crucial to the story of the game, only "extras". 

[LarryDavid]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

LarryDavid wrote...

First of all I don't think Bioware cuts content to sell it afterward. Secondly I can't see what is fundamentally wrong with it. They offer a game for a certain price; based on all the information you have, you decide if you are going to buy it or not. Same with the DLC they release.

There is nothing dishonest about cutting out for instance the 'Nature of the Beast' quest and releasing it afterward. The only thing Bioware should be concerned about is maximizing their profit without compromising their values. So if they don't cut out content (because THEY think it is morally dishonest) , spend resources on providing a forum, feedback, ... the logical reaction is to be thankful. The funny thing is that the ones that claim Bioware to be greedy, are the ones that are greedy as they demand things they don't have the right on (certain content) , whereas Bioware only obtains money by selling content for a price people are willing to pay.

Well, since 'Nature of the Beast' is sort of crucial for the main story, that would be dishonest. If we've paid for a game, it's pretty bad to leave out central parts of the story and offer them as additional DLC that cost money. It would be like ordering a sofa, only to find out, upon delivery, that the cushions have to be bought separetely. You can still sit on it, but you'd still feel like you'd been cheated.

But I agree with what you mean, even though I don't like your example I support the idea of DLC, and I don't think there's anything wrong with a pre-order character, or that they did anything wrong with Shale. Better to get stuff as DLC than not get them at all, as long as they aren't crucial to the story of the game, only "extras". 

I don't see why 'Nature of the Beast' is that crucial. Everything stays the same, expect that you don't recruit the Dalish elves, just as you don't recruit for instance the chasind wilders. DAO per definition is what Bioware released, northing more.

I don't think you can compare DAO with a sofa as they aren't on the same level. You ordered a RPG and DAO contains all elements of a RPG hence you aren't cheated.

[Taura-Tierno]

LarryDavid wrote...

I don't see why 'Nature of the Beast' is that crucial. Everything stays the same, expect that you don't recruit the Dalish elves, just as you don't recruit for instance the chasind wilders. DAO per definition is what Bioware released, northing more. 

I don't think you can compare DAO with a sofa as they aren't on the same level. You ordered a RPG and DAO contains all elements of a RPG hence you aren't cheated.

But it would require a lot of changes? It would hollow out the Dalish origin story, since you wouldn't be able to have any interaction with Dalish elves. Unless you cut out the Dalish origin, too? And it would also change a foundation of the entire main quest, to find the ancient treaties that compelled specifically mages, dwarves and elves to aid the Wardens. So, adding 'Nature of the Beast' as a DLC would sort of change the entire main quest, since if you don't have the DLC, there could be no mention of the Dalish anywhere concerning allies or treaties. If they elves were mentioned, but finding them would require additionally purchased content, I would feel cheated, since they're obviously a major part of the game's storyline. 

Which might work, of course, if it's done properly. But it wouldn't feel as just something "extra". With Warden's Keep, Return to Ostagar and Shale, you aquired those quests by chance, sort of. Stumbling upon merchants, etc. It wasn't any major change to the game's story, it was all side-quests. 

Maybe the sofa-analogy wasn't perfect, but I would feel just as cheated if an obviously major part of a game's main story was only available as DLC as if I had to purchase the cushions for my sofa separately. Unless all parts of the game were the Dalish are mentioned as potential allies would be removed from the main game. But that wouldn't be DLC like the others we've seen.

Modifié par Taura-Tierno, 28 octobre 2010 - 10:18 .

[FellowerOfOdin]

Big Blue Car wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Oh, it's THIS thread again, people complaining about getting free stuff.

Yes. Content developed alongside the main product that's only free with a pre order before the value of the product is known is the same as 'free content'. Don't post.

The DLC does not reduce the amount of resources available for DA2.

Rule 1: When you have no idea what you're talking of, don't post.

You just violated rule 1.

Refrain from further posting, thanks.

(and stop embarassing yourself!)

Overall, I don't see why there are so many people discussing the DLC you get when you pre-order. What's the point? It all boils down to 2 decision:

Pre-order, get free stuff.

Don't pre-order, don't get free stuff.

Man, this is rocket science!

Modifié par FellowerOfOdin, 28 octobre 2010 - 10:40 .

[Mecha Tengu]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Big Blue Car wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Oh, it's THIS thread again, people complaining about getting free stuff.

Yes. Content developed alongside the main product that's only free with a pre order before the value of the product is known is the same as 'free content'. Don't post.

Overall, I don't see why there are so many people discussing the DLC you get when you pre-order. What's the point? It all boils down to 2 decision:

Pre-order, get free stuff.

Don't pre-order, don't get free stuff.

Man, this is rocket science!

you are obviously not getting the notion of how much DLC is abused by game companies. 5 years ago the average shooter would release 15-20 maps on day one, and we would pay the exact retail price for the full game. Nowaways they release with 6 maps and sell the rest as DLC. along with map packs, weapons, perk packs....

DLC is just an excuse to ommit finished content and to sell as profit. Content that should have been released on day one for the paying customers of EA

[Beerfish]

Mecha Tengu wrote...


you are obviously not getting the notion of how much DLC is abused by game companies. 5 years ago the average shooter would release 15-20 maps on day one, and we would pay the exact retail price for the full game. Nowaways they release with 6 maps and sell the rest as DLC. along with map packs, weapons, perk packs....

DLC is just an excuse to ommit finished content and to sell as profit. Content that should have been released on day one for the paying customers of EA

In some cases that may be true in many other cases though this is content that is cut from the game for one reason or another and then finished up after the fact and then sold.  There is a lot of content cut from games during development because they just don't fit at the time, are too difficult to incorporate or cannot be finshed up to game standards by the release date.  In the past this content is lost, left on the cutting room floor so to speak. 

Now companies can select stuff that may at least be close to being ready and then make it game quality after release.  It justifies keeping people on projects and keeps the games 'alive' between sequel or expansion releases.  Is it a new revenue stream for companies?  Yup for sure, are there cases of stuff being with held?  Perhaps but some of this content would never have seen the light of day if not for DLC.

I just hope the same people that are haranging BioWare on this topic were also giving them huge pats on the back and props during the Neverwinter Nights era when BioWare did one heck of a lot of things post release and over a long period of time.

[LarryDavid]

Mecha Tengu wrote...
you are obviously not getting the notion of how much DLC is abused by game companies. 5 years ago the average shooter would release 15-20 maps on day one, and we would pay the exact retail price for the full game. Nowaways they release with 6 maps and sell the rest as DLC. along with map packs, weapons, perk packs....

DLC is just an excuse to ommit finished content and to sell as profit. Content that should have been released on day one for the paying customers of EA

Besides the fact that you have no right whatsoever on content you didn't pay for, you clearly don't understand why profit is necessary. You also don't get the fact that the only reason you have a cell phone, PC, car, fridge, ... is because some people took the risk to produce in order to maximize their profit. Profit that they investe in R&D with the goal to increase their profit even more.

I think it is very egoistic to expect other people to work only for your own benefit.

[mopotter]

Snelle Jaap wrote...

Big Blue Car wrote...

http://dragonage.bioware.com/da2/info/

Pre-order the game on blind faith, before any real reviews or critical opinions are released, and you get free content. Don't and you won't.

It's the best method to trick fans into buying a product before they can make an informed choice about it I can think of.

That
a hundred times that.

What I really don't agree with it the word Trick.  You talk like the only reason to pre-order a game is for the extra content.  For me it has nothing to do with that.  I only pre-order games from developers whose games I have played in the past and enjoyed.  

Bungie, (lots of people like their games so I've heard) could offer a brand new rpg type game with a whole extra world, extra NPC's, and I still would not pre-order it because I don't care for the type of game they have done in the past.   Fall Out New Veges - they killed me in FA3 so i do not trust them.   I did not pre-order FANV; would not have pre-ordered it no matter what they offered, and i won't purchase it till I hear how it ends.  

I have a past with BioWare games that makes me feel comfortable pre-ordering their games whether they give me free things or not.  That they do give me a free item, story or character is a nice bonus.  If someday I pre-order a game and I hate it, then i will re-consider whether or not I pre-order future games.  

There is no "trick" involved as far as I'm concerned.  

[Eldragon]

Do what I'm doing: Pre-order the game, don't open the box when it arrives in the mail and wait for the reviews. If you are dissatisfied, e-bay the unopened Pre-order edition copy for a small profit.

[Bobad]

I thought this thread would be about BioWare strutting about in a short skirt and stripper heels, and in some ways it just might be too.

[AndarianTD]

Riona45 wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Anyone else amused to see that the people who are ostensibly defending the fans' interests are the ones who think the fans are fools?

Constantly. 

I'll second that.

I'll third it.

Fourthed (is that a word? ). Anyway, it doesn't surprise me in the least. It's an attitude that I've seen many times before in this and other contexts.

[Everwarden]

The Masked Rog wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

But the devs do say that this content is made AFTER the main game is finished, on extra budget and stuff. But they are the devs... We only have their word on it

Exactly, I'm calling bull****

I think the devs are slightly more trustworthy than the anonymous internet person.

Not by much, considering the anonymous internet person doesn't have a vested interest in selling the game to keep eating. 

[NKKKK]

Hey man, they have to eat too.

[Cutlasskiwi]

DocDVD wrote...
Really, well the new scheme of Bio/EA lost them at least one customer (->me), I simply don't see the point why I should be thankfull that I get "extra" content (that was left out intentionally) if I
* buy the game at a certain store
* preorder the game
* etc.

Excuse me, but how do you know that it was left out intentionally? Do you have some insider information that we others don't? I have a friend that works at a game company and they have a 'special team' that work on DLC material when they aren't working on the actual game. AND more often then not they have more time to polish the DLC when the actual game are sent of for approval. -> Thus rendering it impossible for them to put it in the actual game. 

Just saying.. 

[Eldragon]

Yellow Words wrote...

DocDVD wrote...
Really, well the new scheme of Bio/EA lost them at least one customer (->me), I simply don't see the point why I should be thankfull that I get "extra" content (that was left out intentionally) if I
* buy the game at a certain store
* preorder the game
* etc.

Excuse me, but how do you know that it was left out intentionally? Do you have some insider information that we others don't? I have a friend that works at a game company and they have a 'special team' that work on DLC material when they aren't working on the actual game. AND more often then not they have more time to polish the DLC when the actual game are sent of for approval. -> Thus rendering it impossible for them to put it in the actual game. 

Just saying.. 

While the game is probably close to being sent off for approval, its a huge perception problem.

Now its certainly the case where Bioware mgt said: "We got to cut Features X, Y, Z to hit that March 8th ship date. But we can continue working on it and release it as day 1 DLC". But thats not how the average person sees it. Most people see it as "If you have that content on day 1, just include it with the game!" 

Yes you can argue that Day 1 DLC is just optional add ons, like the heated seats and rubber floor mats on a new car. But Day 1 DLC is a slippery slope that can eventually turn into a case where you don't really experience the complete game unless you buy all the DLC. It has not happened yet. I have no idea when it will happen. But one day some company is going to offer alternate endings and other major gameplay changes as Day 1 DLC.

[NKKKK]

It has not happened yet. I have no idea when it will happen. But one day some company is going to offer alternate endings and other major gameplay changes as Day 1 DLC.

It has happened. Remember Broken Steel

[Cutlasskiwi]

Eldragon wrote...While the game is probably close to being sent off for approval, its a huge perception problem.

Now its certainly the case where Bioware mgt said: "We got to cut Features X, Y, Z to hit that March 8th ship date. But we can continue working on it and release it as day 1 DLC". But thats not how the average person sees it. Most people see it as "If you have that content on day 1, just include it with the game!" 

Yes you can argue that Day 1 DLC is just optional add ons, like the heated seats and rubber floor mats on a new car. But Day 1 DLC is a slippery slope that can eventually turn into a case where you don't really experience the complete game unless you buy all the DLC. It has not happened yet. I have no idea when it will happen. But one day some company is going to offer alternate endings and other major gameplay changes as Day 1 DLC.

Oh I don't dubt that it will happen in the future. I'm just saying that I don't think BioWare are deliberately cutting this character from the actual game in an attempt to increase their sales. (Like they have some evil masterplan or something.)

[NKKKK]

Oh I don't dubt that it will happen in the future. I'm just saying that I don't think BioWare are deliberately cutting this character from the actual game in an attempt to increase their sales. (Like they have some evil masterplan or something.)

We have differing opinions then.

[Cutlasskiwi]

NKKKK wrote...

Oh I don't dubt that it will happen in the future. I'm just saying that I don't think BioWare are deliberately cutting this character from the actual game in an attempt to increase their sales. (Like they have some evil masterplan or something.)

We have differing opinions then.

After reading this thread I assumed nothing else.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Eldragon wrote...

Yes you can argue that Day 1 DLC is just optional add ons, like the heated seats and rubber floor mats on a new car. But Day 1 DLC is a slippery slope that can eventually turn into a case where you don't really experience the complete game unless you buy all the DLC. It has not happened yet. I have no idea when it will happen. But one day some company is going to offer alternate endings and other major gameplay changes as Day 1 DLC.

Your point is beyond silly.

How many DVDs are sold in three distinct versions:  The theater ending, a happier ending, and comedy ending?  What is stopping Hollywood from doing that with every major movie?  Closer to your point, wouldn't selling different endings sort of tell you what the default endings are?  Or are you saying people are going to buy DLC labeled "Just buy it!"  Cause they aren't.

"Slippery slope" is a term people use when they know their ultimate point is absurd.  You're essentially saying "this is how things are" then waving your hands and going wooo-ga wooo-ga while you move over to the scary bit of your thought and say "Now look!  Now I'm right!"

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 28 octobre 2010 - 08:04 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

NKKKK wrote...

It has not happened yet. I have no idea when it will happen. But one day some company is going to offer alternate endings and other major gameplay changes as Day 1 DLC.

It has happened. Remember Broken Steel

I remeber Broken Steel very fondly.  Great stuff!  It doesn't support the point though.  Broken Steel was months away from being Day 1 DLC.  It might have been planned from the start, but we would be in magical space knowledge territory there because we have no real proof to contradict Bethesda.




Beyond the fact that there's a bink file with the "Two Weeks Later" fade out packaged in the core game files.