472 réponses à ce sujet

[Evindale]

To be honest, I think everyone's just getting a wee bit paranoid. DLC costs money? Don't buy it. I haven't purchased the majority of DLC and I haven't lost any sleep over it. We live in a world where we have to pay for everything. Shops are selling bottled water. Hell that stuff falls out the sky for free.



At my Game Store (for which I work) we had loads of bonus codes for the memory band and helmet that we just gave out to customers. Look at games like CoD, you pay £120 to get a remote controlled car, £65 to get a few xbox themes. In argos they are giving away free dog tags if you pre-order black op's, that's a bit of plastic, not even anything useful. >< (You CAN always cancel a pre-order btw)

[Shiakazee]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Shiakazee wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Oh, it's THIS thread again, people complaining about getting free stuff.

Free stuff? How ignorant can you be?  The "free stuff" that you are referring should be in the final game of all copies.  Jeeze, remember when you could buy a complete game day one.  DLC is another rip-off of content that should have been there in the first place.  Mind you there is some content that is developed after, a lot of it is just stuff that the devs hold back so we can pay for it later.  

Man, BioWare can't win these days.  They give us DLC, we claim it should've been in the game in the first place.  They don't give us DLC, we complain they aren't supporting the game.

And here I thought Star Wars fans were the kings of biting the hand that feeds them.

 What do mean? Im pretty sure its my hand that feeds them, so they better shape up

[AlanC9]

bobobo878 wrote...

mopotter wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...
I can't speak for Big Blue Car, but I feel entitled because I'm paying full price.  When I buy a car, I don't expect to have to pay extra for the passenger seat.

But you do pay if you want leather sits and air conditioning, right? I don't think comparing a bonus (and probably optional even if you have the dlc) to a car seat is fair.

you also pay if you want cruise control, and you pay different amounts if you want stick or automatic.  I agree, not the same thing.   edit spelling. 

The metaphor may not fit perfectly now, but Bioware is steadily pushing the envelope of what they consider acceptable to scalp.  Some day, they might require us to pay extra or preorder to get features comparable to brakes.

Well, I see mopotter ninjad me there. My fault for not paying closer attention.

This is the problem with arguments that are founded on a feeling. You don't actually have anything for someone who doesn't share the feeling. I'm not clear if you find Bio's current policy unacceptable or if you realy are jsut worried about what Bio might do at some future time. Either what's in the DLC is equivalent to brakes, or it isn't. You don't need to actually decide that for yourself because your feelings are your feelings, but if you can't convince others that what's in the preorder bonus is the equivalent of brakes and not air-conditioning, your argument fails.

Modifié par AlanC9, 27 octobre 2010 - 11:00 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

bobobo878 wrote...
I don't mind when theyt create DLC AFTER the game is finished, but I do mind removing portions of the game created before release and selling them separately.  To be clear,  I considered the way they handled "Operation Overlord" and "Lair of the Shadow Broker" but not "The Price of Revenge"

They didn't.  The only way in which they removed portions of the game and sold them separately was if you bought a used copy of the original game.  Zaeed and a whole bunch of free DLC came with the Cerberus Network, which everyone who bought a standard retail copy of ME2 got.  Same thing with DA:O--Shale was first-day DLC for everyone who actually took the time to go out and buy a new copy.

I imagine that's the same purpose of this Signature Edition--to encourage people to buy the game brand-new rather than pirating it or purchasing used copies.  The whole schtick on used games/rental games is one that I tend to be of two minds on, but you can't really blame BioWare for trying to encourage people to purchase the game firsthand.

[Eurypterid]

I'm not pre-ordering, and I don't give a rat's behind about the extra character. I'll still get a complete game. What's not there, I'm pretty sure I won't miss, as I doubt I'll see any glaring holes in the game if I play it without the pre-order bonus.

[Stanley Woo]

Shiakazee wrote...
Free stuff? How ignorant can you be?  The "free stuff" that you are referring should be in the final game of all copies.

And that free X-box the car dealership is advertising when you buy a new car should be in every new car! And those bonus batteries that came with that camera should be in the packaging for all new cameras! And that bonus 30% cereal I'm getting in the bigger box should be in the smaller box!

Seriously, what standard of "complete" game do people subscribe to here? Are we not allowed to release any DLC or expansions because that makes the original game less "complete?" what about sequels? Is Dragon 2 not permitted because it's not the "complete" Dragon Age franchise experience? At what point can something be considered a "bonus," "extra" or "additional content" anymore?

Jeeze, remember when you could buy a complete game day one.  DLC is another rip-off of content that should have been there in the first place.  Mind you there is some content that is developed after, a lot of it is just stuff that the devs hold back so we can pay for it later.

Ah, so you're speaking out of a rather extreme bias against DLC in general. Your conspiracy theories aside, I'd like to see some--any--evidence for that. Since it appears to be so prevalent, where is your evidence that this happens at all?

Come on, folks. You either believe us when we tell you something, or you don't. If you believe us, then please, believe us when we say we have no malicious intent when we develop DLC as an add-on to a whole, complete game that we'd like you to enjoy. If you don't believe us, why do you keep asking us for answers?

[NKKKK]

Free stuff? How ignorant can you be? The "free stuff" that you are referring should be in the final game of all copies.

Stanley, I know this stuff is meant to be in the main game, but cut out and put as DLC''s. You can keep telling yourself and us the opposite though.

Shale and this new character were supposed to be in the main game and you know it. You don't develop characters as DLC from the start. And even if you do, that's really sad on your part and it's a load of bolegney.

Modifié par NKKKK, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:55 .

[Evindale]

Stanley Woo - A volus of great wisdom *salutes*

Though I would trust an Elcor more....

Modifié par Evindale, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:57 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Shiakazee wrote...
What do mean? Im pretty sure its my hand that feeds them, so they better shape up

I'm going to link to a blog entry of Neil Gaiman's addressing the common fallacy that because fans pay for the work of an author, studio, etc., that creative producer is beholden to their every whim.

journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html

Translation:  BioWare is not your b****.  There was no promise to make DA2 to your exact specifications, no contract for the writers to do everything you ask.  

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 27 octobre 2010 - 10:58 .

[0x30A88]

I have faith in them, for if they brought one awesome game to the market, they can sure do it again. And I hate game reviews, for (most of) those are people that are not objective and amplifies the petty flas. Basically, it's an opinion with a name. Allthough, if all reviews are bad, the game most certainly is, if else, then watch a vid or try a demo or whatever way YOU can experience the gameplay.

[NKKKK]

[spam removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 octobre 2010 - 11:05 .

[Evindale]

Lies. I have a far prettier face to my mechanical body.

Also, why does supporting a company and the way they work make a fan? I mean if I was a fan i'd own all the DLC's. Zomg I don't. He makes a good point saying everyone uses promotions to sell their goods. How many games have you seen with "early access to <insert content here>". A fair few. That's even lazier, but it still gets people to buy it.

I can walk past Mobile Phone shops and see companies giving away a free PS3 if I get a phone contract with them. People will take the phone just for the PS3. It's called marketing, it's an art form. Good marketing will produce revenue, bad marketing can make a huge dent on the profit/loss sheet.

I'll end with saying "Howdy Pad'ner, fancy meeting you here."

Modifié par Evindale, 27 octobre 2010 - 11:04 .

[Morroian]

NKKKK wrote...

Free stuff? How ignorant can you be? The "free stuff" that you are referring should be in the final game of all copies.

Stanley, I know this stuff is meant to be in the main game, but cut out and put as DLC''s. You can keep telling yourself and us the opposite though.

Shale and this new character were supposed to be in the main game and you know it. You don't develop characters as DLC from the start. And even if you do, that's really sad on your part and it's a load of bolegney.

Show proof then.

They acknowledged the situaiton with Shale and even gave her away free afterward. Why shouldn't they develop additional content apart from the main game to be used as reward add ons?  From all accounts nothing has been removed its just additional.

[Stanley Woo]

bobobo878 wrote...
I don't mind when they create DLC AFTER the game is finished, but I do mind removing portions of the game created before release and selling them separately.

Shale is a perfect example of a DLC that contained content that was originally in the game. The content was removed due to not having enough time/resources to finish it, but due to the delay in DAO's release, it was decided to finish the content and release it as DLC. Based on your post, you would prefer that the excised Shale content never see the light of day ever because it was originally in the main game!

Aside from that, I think we can manage our own time and resources and develop the content we need when we need to, thank you. We can't very well have developers just sitting around twiddling their thumbs just because of a perception that we're doing something inappropriate. Developers get restless.

[Shiakazee]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Shiakazee wrote...
Free stuff? How ignorant can you be?  The "free stuff" that you are referring should be in the final game of all copies.

And that free X-box the car dealership is advertising when you buy a new car should be in every new car! And those bonus batteries that came with that camera should be in the packaging for all new cameras! And that bonus 30% cereal I'm getting in the bigger box should be in the smaller box!

Seriously, what standard of "complete" game do people subscribe to here? Are we not allowed to release any DLC or expansions because that makes the original game less "complete?" what about sequels? Is Dragon 2 not permitted because it's not the "complete" Dragon Age franchise experience? At what point can something be considered a "bonus," "extra" or "additional content" anymore?

Jeeze, remember when you could buy a complete game day one.  DLC is another rip-off of content that should have been there in the first place.  Mind you there is some content that is developed after, a lot of it is just stuff that the devs hold back so we can pay for it later.

Ah, so you're speaking out of a rather extreme bias against DLC in general. Your conspiracy theories aside, I'd like to see some--any--evidence for that. Since it appears to be so prevalent, where is your evidence that this happens at all?

Come on, folks. You either believe us when we tell you something, or you don't. If you believe us, then please, believe us when we say we have no malicious intent when we develop DLC as an add-on to a whole, complete game that we'd like you to enjoy. If you don't believe us, why do you keep asking us for answers?

Yes, very nice car analogy, but i digress, you guys cut content that could be in final game.  It might be an extra character, maybe a little sword or staff there, heck, even that wardens keep stuff, i mean there was a guy in dragon age origins that was there before i even started playing,  telling me about dlc, that of course you could not get unless you bought.  Its okay,its just business right:whistle:

[AlanC9]

Like I said upthread, it's possible that Bio's such idiots that they didn't consider what would be the Day 1 DLC until a couple of weeks ago. But I doubt it.

[PaulSX]

I have no problem with dlcs. though I think the signature edition is sweet, I do hate in-game ads, like warden's keep in DAO ~just hope dlcs for DA2 can be as solid as mass effect 2, maybe even better like red dead redemption's new dlc

[Evindale]

Some copies of the game came with wardens keep maybe? Just a thought.

[Wicked 702]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Shiakazee wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Oh, it's THIS thread again, people complaining about getting free stuff.

Free stuff? How ignorant can you be?  The "free stuff" that you are referring should be in the final game of all copies.  Jeeze, remember when you could buy a complete game day one.  DLC is another rip-off of content that should have been there in the first place.  Mind you there is some content that is developed after, a lot of it is just stuff that the devs hold back so we can pay for it later.  

Man, BioWare can't win these days.  They give us DLC, we claim it should've been in the game in the first place.  They don't give us DLC, we complain they aren't supporting the game.

And here I thought Star Wars fans were the kings of biting the hand that feeds them.

Uh...............no. Not even close. You've got your positions mixed up.

See, we're the hand that feeds THEM, not the other way around. Learn to think like a consumer, not a puppet.

[AlanC9]

Shiakazee wrote...
Yes, very nice car analogy, but i digress, you guys cut content that could be in final game.  It might be an extra character, maybe a little sword or staff there, heck, even that wardens keep stuff, i mean there was a guy in dragon age origins that was there before i even started playing,  telling me about dlc, that of course you could not get unless you bought.  Its okay,its just business right:whistle:

 I thought the problem was with stuff they supposedly cut from the main game, not stuff that was always supposed to be DLC. I'd ask you to make up your mind if I thought you were actually thinking before posting.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Shiakazee wrote...
Yes, very nice car analogy, but i digress, you guys cut content that could be in final game.  It might be an extra character, maybe a little sword or staff there, heck, even that wardens keep stuff, i mean there was a guy in dragon age origins that was there before i even started playing,  telling me about dlc, that of course you could not get unless you bought.  Its okay,its just business right:whistle:

OK, let's think about it logically.  The game is nearing the end of its development cycle, and the devs are starting to work on new stuff.  Say...something like Lair of the Shadow Broker.  In your world, they should delay the release of the game until all that additional content is finished, because hey, it could be in the final game.

So it gets delayed by a few weeks.  Then the devs get bored and start working on more content while the game's being finalized.  And hey, now the game's delayed again because the new content "could be in the final game."

No game would EVER get released under that logic.  The game would have a jillion hours of content, but it'd never see the light of day.  

[Sandtigress]

Stanley Woo wrote...
 We can't very well have developers just sitting around twiddling their thumbs just because of a perception that we're doing something inappropriate. Developers get restless.

If normal idle hands are the devil's tools, idle developer hands sounds like a very scary thing....

On topic though, how is this any different than one provider like Gamestop or Steam offering bonus content for pre-ordering through them, except that Bioware is apparently genreous enough to offer to anyone who pre-orders, no matter who from?

I guess you could say it's because it's a character, but still, I imagine having a unique weapon or armor can change the gaming experience dramatically, at least early on, if it's powerful enough.  I personally don't see it as anything more than a reward for those who trust a developer enough to pre-order - in my case it wouldn't make any difference as I'd likely get the game day of release so why not?  I'm only waiting to figure out what version I'm getting - PC or PS3.

If you're not that confident, then you wait, and you lose out on extra stuff just like if you didn't pre-order Halo from Gamestop, etc.

[Evindale]

Sandtigress, careful, thinking like that will get you accused of being a fangirl of bioware. You're making a sensible, logical point. It's not like bioware are forcing people to pay up front with spears. Some people don't mind pre-ordering. (I get 25% off anyway, so I'm happy to pay right away, woo)

[Sable Rhapsody]

Wicked 702 wrote...

Uh...............no. Not even close. You've got your positions mixed up.

See, we're the hand that feeds THEM, not the other way around. Learn to think like a consumer, not a puppet.

*sigh*  OK, then--let's clarify to a more complex view of the consumer/studio relationship--it goes both ways.  Shocking, I know.  They make stuff--you buy it, which gives them more money to make more stuff.  They provide us with fun video games, we provide them with money.

But just because you vote for what you like with your money does NOT mean BioWare--or any other creative developer for that matter--is beholden to your every whim.  They do what they like, and if you don't like it, don't pay for it.  No one is anyone else's b**** here.  And if you actively WANT a studio to be your b****, go found your own studio and see how well that works out.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 27 octobre 2010 - 11:13 .

[Saibh]

Stanley Woo wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...
I don't mind when they create DLC AFTER the game is finished, but I do mind removing portions of the game created before release and selling them separately.

Shale is a perfect example of a DLC that contained content that was originally in the game. The content was removed due to not having enough time/resources to finish it, but due to the delay in DAO's release, it was decided to finish the content and release it as DLC. Based on your post, you would prefer that the excised Shale content never see the light of day ever because it was originally in the main game!

Aside from that, I think we can manage our own time and resources and develop the content we need when we need to, thank you. We can't very well have developers just sitting around twiddling their thumbs just because of a perception that we're doing something inappropriate. Developers get restless.

Besides that, I vastly prefer DLC to be pre-planned. They have all of their actors, their writers, their designers on, er, set. You don't have suspiciously silent companions because they can't afford to hire all twelve squadmates for a few minutes worth of dialogue. Or worse--a completely stand alone adventure with nothing to do with the plot or characters excusing your Warden or Hawke or Shepard being stamped in there. That's what happens when DLC comes after.

DLC is planned on a different budget with a different team--it was made to be extra. On the other hand, if there were no DLC, there would be no Shale or Kasumi or Zaeed. They simply wouldn't exist. The game would feel no more or less complete to you. There just wouldn't be extra bonus content.