143 réponses à ce sujet

[vkt62]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

vkt62 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

SSV Enterprise wrote...

No. Shepard's quite fine commanding the Normandy. Joker's suited to piloting frigates, so if Shepard moved to a dreadnought he'd have to leave Joker behind. Also, the shield upgrade for the Normandy is stated to be unusable on ships larger than frigates.

Next upgrade, using meta materials to make the ship invisible to most of the electromagnetic spectrum.

I thought about that, kinda like Shepard's cloaking if you play Infiltrator, but honestly, black in space would make you pretty darn invisible, especially since an operator would have to spot you to zoom in on you with any sort of camera system.

I don't know a lot about light yet, I'm an engineering major that hasn't ever taken a physics class, but isn't black a color that absorbs all light and doesn't reflect any of it, while white reflects all light? Color functions as only what parts of the spectrum don't get absorbed correct? So then would black also absorb parts of the spectrum humans can't see?
Where? Just curious, I don't remember this. Anyway, I agree, the Normandy is perfect. Versatile, durable, powerful, and sexy. Seriously, paint the whole thing black, and it would be invisible to sensors as well as the naked eye, at least in space.

These are the kind of materials I meant. During research, they have been able to make the material invisible to one frequency of the electromagnetic spectrum.
http://en.wikipedia....terial_cloaking

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Metamaterial

Modifié par vkt62, 29 octobre 2010 - 05:07 .

[Hoki]

katie916 wrote...
think that normady is a fine ship but at the same time i fill it needs a massive amount of upgrades if it barley survived the encounter with the collecters how is it going to fare against the 1000+ reaper ships

This is something I'd like to avoid. The idea that if you just upgrade the normandy enough that you'll be able to one-ship-army the reaper fleet, removing any sense of despiration to their eternal threat.
Shepard is a mother#$%^er, but she can only do so much on her own.
So far she has been doing an amazing job of using what power she has to prepare the galaxy for the reapers. Strengthening races, securing futures, forming peace, discovering the truth.
I believe in ME3 we'll probably need to find a solution/backup to the mass relays, as they are the reaper's ace in the hole.
The Normandy SR1 was destroyed by a single collector cruiser. The Normandy SR2 BBQ'd the collector ship but got dinged up by some drones.
Eventually the best defense becomes a better offense when the scale of battle becomes so large that you cannot avoid losses. It becomes a matter of statistics, to achieve the greatest kill/loss over time.
You could still upgrade the NormandyNaught in ME3 so that you kill more before you are destroyed by the reapers.
And hell, maybe you get back on the SR2 after the NormandyNaught is destroyed.

[Moiaussi]

SSV Enterprise wrote...

From the upgrade's codex entry.

"Significant drawbacks to current CBT configuration prevent its use on
anything other than frigates and fighters. Its many high-frequency
sensors and emitters require frequent maintenance and replacement."

Convenient writing. I don't remember the Normandy having to put in for spare parts, ever. The upgrades were all jury rigged in the field. A ship regardless of size class built around the concept shouldn't have the same burnout issues.

There is no reason the Normandy's upgrades couldn't be standard issue on all new vessels by ME3. Shep could even be assigned to one of the prototypes. The SR-1 was a prototype too.

[Angel-Shinkiro]

The fight between the Sr-2 and the Collector Cruiser during the suicide mission proves that the more agile craft is more likely to win.



If Shepard didn't tell Joker to go in close to finish off the Collector Cruiser the Normandy probaly wouldn't of been damage, though it would of been more logical to stay far from them Bioware couldn't think of another way for the ship to have been damage.



I still love you Bioware.

[Haventh]

Normandy SR2... i wouldn't get the right feel if Shapard's ship was a massive cruiser or dreadnaught.

[fongiel24]

I'm not saying I'm supporting the idea of Shepard getting a bigger ship in ME3, but if he does, it can't be called the Normandy anymore. Only frigates are named after battles.

If Shepard is to captain a bigger ship in ME3, I'd like it to be a carrier. Why? Carriers are named after people. We could cut right to the chase and have it be called the SSV Shepard.

Modifié par fongiel24, 29 octobre 2010 - 10:05 .

[Randy1012]

Carriers are just dreadnoughts with a huge hangar full of fighters and interceptors instead of a huge mass accelerator cannon. Even worse, they hang back away from battles so they can safely launch and recover their fighters; they're not meant to be in the thick of battle.

[Crusherix]

Shepard + Normandy * Dreadnaught^10 size = ME3 instant classic.

[Sinapus]

Minor nitpicking:

Moiaussi wrote...
For those who say that small unit tactics require a small ship, I point out that Andromeda was a dreadnaught, the Enterprise is a cruiser, the White Star is a cruiser.

The White Star class ships were smaller than the heavy warships (called destroyers for some reason, so I guessed they deliberately went away from wet navy conventions) in that universe. The Minbari War Cruisers were also bigger. Actually, I am wondering if the White Star's size is the same as the SR-1 or SR-2 since they really weren't all that big. They could carry a few of those Minbari Fighters and a shuttle, but not much else.

Andromeda... The High Guard Argosy designated her class as a heavy cruiser. A generalist type of ship that could act as a battlegroup flagship or work independently. There were some other ship types that were more specialized ("deep range attack vessels" I think) but were only really good for blowing up other ships.

Now I'm fondly remembering those scenes where her AI's holographic
persona would pop in and declare her full designation, including hull
number and give the impression that she was the best damned warship in the Three Galaxies. Hm. Maybe Tricia Helfer could offer more than her voice for EDI? They could also come up with a funny explanation for it like they did to explain why Andromeda's AI persona looked like Lexa Doig. ("...well, Andromeda was a Phoenician princess...") Joker would freak.

I think I'll stop here before I start searching through the Honor Harrington novels for more ideas on warship types. The weapons mix really doesn't match the Mass Effect universe, and I dislike the "Enterprise vs Imperial Star Destroyer" type debates anyway.

[GuardianAngel470]

Sinapus wrote...

Minor nitpicking:

Moiaussi wrote...
For those who say that small unit tactics require a small ship, I point out that Andromeda was a dreadnaught, the Enterprise is a cruiser, the White Star is a cruiser.

The White Star class ships were smaller than the heavy warships (called destroyers for some reason, so I guessed they deliberately went away from wet navy conventions) in that universe. The Minbari War Cruisers were also bigger. Actually, I am wondering if the White Star's size is the same as the SR-1 or SR-2 since they really weren't all that big. They could carry a few of those Minbari Fighters and a shuttle, but not much else.

Andromeda... The High Guard Argosy designated her class as a heavy cruiser. A generalist type of ship that could act as a battlegroup flagship or work independently. There were some other ship types that were more specialized ("deep range attack vessels" I think) but were only really good for blowing up other ships.

Now I'm fondly remembering those scenes where her AI's holographic
persona would pop in and declare her full designation, including hull
number and give the impression that she was the best damned warship in the Three Galaxies. Hm. Maybe Tricia Helfer could offer more than her voice for EDI? They could also come up with a funny explanation for it like they did to explain why Andromeda's AI persona looked like Lexa Doig. ("...well, Andromeda was a Phoenician princess...") Joker would freak.

I think I'll stop here before I start searching through the Honor Harrington novels for more ideas on warship types. The weapons mix really doesn't match the Mass Effect universe, and I dislike the "Enterprise vs Imperial Star Destroyer" type debates anyway.

I should really go back and play Homeworld. Anyway, one thing to keep in mind, the shield upgrade of the Normandy would not be sufficient for a full scale war of attrition. I believe the entry also states that it is good for deflecting small amounts of incoming fire (or ship debris) but because of the way it functions it wouldn't have the necessary power reserves to repeatedly deflect rounds. 

It would need an advancement before it would be good enough. Thankfully, I have the geth for that.

[GuardianAngel470]

fongiel24 wrote...

I'm not saying I'm supporting the idea of Shepard getting a bigger ship in ME3, but if he does, it can't be called the Normandy anymore. Only frigates are named after battles.

If Shepard is to captain a bigger ship in ME3, I'd like it to be a carrier. Why? Carriers are named after people. We could cut right to the chase and have it be called the SSV Shepard.

Sounds kinda narcissistic to me. Why not something unique to the game world, like the man who united the many governments of Earth into the Systems Alliance. At least for paragon shepard.

For Renegade Shepard it could either be Shepard or Bonaparte, after the original Napoleon that conquered most of Europe.

[Moiaussi]

Angel-Shinkiro wrote...

The fight between the Sr-2 and the Collector Cruiser during the suicide mission proves that the more agile craft is more likely to win.

If Shepard didn't tell Joker to go in close to finish off the Collector Cruiser the Normandy probaly wouldn't of been damage, though it would of been more logical to stay far from them Bioware couldn't think of another way for the ship to have been damage.

I still love you Bioware.

And yet that agility meant absolutely nothing when the SR-1 went down. As such, the whole 'agility' thing could have been luck. Also the upgraded shields would have been irrelevant if agility was enough.

[Shadowomega23]

I actually was Developing a concept of a New Dreadnaught Design for the Mass Effect Universe, and one I hit and actually like was similar in most reguards to Homeworld 2 Hiigaarn Heavy/Battlecruisers. Granted I really haven't worked on it much in the last six months.

Well due to the people going toward talks of the war with the reapers, I was thinking of finishing work on a ship concept I have been working on. Unlike the Dreadnaughs that are in current use this would be a new class, a fast dreadnaugh, kind of like the Fast Battleships of WW2. Instead of using one massive Cannon that goes the lenght of the ship, it would utilize turret base Thrax cannons for its main weapon system.While using smaller cannons to act a point defence vs smaller ships and maybe fighters. Maybe even going as far as barrowing the UV lasers the Salarans use on their ships. Atm the current ship profile matches the Higarran Heavy Cruiser from Homeworld 2. Photo below of Higarren Heavy Cruiser are below.







Current Concept puts 4 Thrax cannons Dorsal, and 4 Ventral.  They would be Arranged 2 Port, Starboard, In step like formation, similar to WW2 area battleships. This would allow for maxium fireing archs and overlapping fields of fire should the ship be surrounded. Would have the same set up to the aft section. This departure in design would make up for where the Destiny Accession Failed.

There are 4 Ship designs from this frame design.
 
1. Yamato class Super Dreadnaught. 
     Carries 24 Thrax Cannons total 6 forward 6 aft Ventral, same for Dorsal
     Haven't listed conventional weapon, torpedo, or Guardian laser ammount
    This is also the only ship I had in concept that uses a two dual Heavy kinectic accelorators that can push a ship the mass of the SR1 Nomandy to nearly the speed of light before its own Mass Effect core take over the acceloration. (Designed this system to litterly push special designed kinectic kill torpedos to impact reaper ships.Much like the Kamakzi idea that has been suggested alot, but with the idea of catipulting them so they can accelorate to FTL quicker.)
    Fighter bay carries 6 squadrons of 10 strike craft. 2 squadrons of Space Superiority Fighters (Heavy fighter craft), 4 Bomber squadrons.

 2. Bismark Dreadnaught
     Carries 16 Thrax Cannons total  4 forward 4 aft Ventral, same for Dorsal
     Haven't listed conventional weapon, torpedo, or Guardian laser ammount, but less then Yamato and More the Iowa
      Figher Bay Carries 4 squadrons of 10 strike craft, 2 squadrons of Space Superiority Fighters (Heavy fighter craft), 2 Bomber Squadrons

 3. Iowa Fast Dreadnaught
     Carries 16 Thrax Cannons total  4 forward 4 aft Ventral, same for Dorsal
     Haven't listed conventional weapon, torpedo, or Guardian laser ammount, but less then Bismark
     The most manuverable of the 3 Dreadnaughts and quicker
     No fighter bay
     Does Have mine laying capablities

4.  Unamed Destroyer
     Carries 4 Thrax Cannons 1 forward 1 after ventral, same for Dorsal
     Haven't list secondary weapons
    No fighter bay


I also was working on an idea of a possible "Biotic cannon" which could generate localized barriers, or even try and push/pull projectiles off course, (to do this would need its fire control system tied into a Ladar or radar that can track inc projectiles even thouse moving near FTL speeds.) Could In theory even use something like warp to tear apart incoming torpedos and fighter hauls.   

If Shepard gets one of these I think the reapers would have to back down.

*edit add actually A few people that posted here might actually remember this from the last time I posted it two months back. *

Modifié par Shadowomega23, 30 octobre 2010 - 08:15 .

[fongiel24]

Shadowomega23 wrote...

I actually was Developing a concept of a New Dreadnaught Design for the Mass Effect Universe, and one I hit and actually like was similar in most reguards to Homeworld 2 Hiigaarn Heavy/Battlecruisers. Granted I really haven't worked on it much in the last six months.

Well due to the people going toward talks of the war with the reapers, I was thinking of finishing work on a ship concept I have been working on. Unlike the Dreadnaughs that are in current use this would be a new class, a fast dreadnaugh, kind of like the Fast Battleships of WW2. Instead of using one massive Cannon that goes the lenght of the ship, it would utilize turret base Thrax cannons for its main weapon system.While using smaller cannons to act a point defence vs smaller ships and maybe fighters. Maybe even going as far as barrowing the UV lasers the Salarans use on their ships. Atm the current ship profile matches the Higarran Heavy Cruiser from Homeworld 2. Photo below of Higarren Heavy Cruiser are below.

This sounds more like a battlecruiser than a fast battleship. "Fast" battleships like the Iowa class weren't any less well-armed and armoured than their slower counterparts. They just incorporated more advanced technology and design that increased their speed.

The problem with the idea of a battlecruiser is that it is designed to be "stronger than anything faster, and faster than anything stronger". Their main purpose by the Second World War was to act as super-powerful commerce raiders, swooping into wipe out convoys then running away before the enemy could intercept them with their own capital ships.

Against the Reapers, I don't see how building faster, but less-well armed ships would be an effective tactic. With their huge mass effect cores, Reapers are already far more agile and likely also faster than any conventional ship, negating the primary advantage a battlecruiser has over a more ponderous dreadnought. If anything, a purpose-designed Reaper-fighting ship should be packing dreadnought-class weaponry with minimal armour to save cost and weight. The Reapers have already been shown to be able to one-shot almost anything. Armour is almost worse than useless due to the cost and performance drawbacks associated with it. 

[CommanderSheperd117]

Hoki wrote...

The battle with the Reaper Fleets will be one of galactic proportions.
Sure there will be missions where you run around with your squads pew pewing, but reapers aren't little critters, their emense Dreadnaughts themselves that are constructed to survive in absolute zero as well as extreme heat.

It took an alliance fleet to kill 1 reaper and there were heavy casualties. I'm fearful that what ME3 will be more 3man squad missions running around collecting upgrades for heavy pistols when you're supposed to face an armada of god-like ships.

I don't want to watch a movie of the final showdown. I want to maneuver a titan accross the killing fields, blasting the !#$%ing &*^% out of the reaper hordes.
Yes I know if the storyline takes us down a path of facing the reapers with glorious battle rather than something lame like planting a virus, or diplomacy, that will be casualties on an epic proportion. And thats why this is exactly how ME3 should play out. Epic, massive, glorious space war with Shepherd's flagship right in the %^&*ing middle of it.

We could get rid of the genophage and stockpile every allied vessel full of krogan elites, so when the reapers launch invasion squads to intercept the allied fleet, they are met with a krogan wall of mother*&^%er upgraded with +1 mother*&^%ing.

well, its going to be hard for bioware to include that since dreadnoughts cannot land on planets.
http://masseffect.wi...ht#Dreadnoughts

[Ahriman]

Randy1083 wrote...

Carriers are just dreadnoughts with a
huge hangar full of fighters and interceptors instead of a huge mass
accelerator cannon. Even worse, they hang back away from battles so they
can safely launch and recover their fighters; they're not meant to be
in the thick of battle.

At least fighter rush will be more usefull against reapers than usual dreadnoughts.

fongiel24 wrote...

The Reapers have already been shown to be able to one-shot almost
anything. Armour is almost worse than useless due to the cost and
performance drawbacks associated with it. 

So Shepard needs something what can dodge fire (Normandy) or somemthing what can hold reaper's fire (we haven't saw it yet).

[Randy1012]

Wizz wrote...

Randy1083 wrote...

Carriers are just dreadnoughts with a huge hangar full of fighters and interceptors instead of a huge mass accelerator cannon. Even worse, they hang back away from battles so they can safely launch and recover their fighters; they're not meant to be in the thick of battle.

At least fighter rush will be more usefull against reapers than usual dreadnoughts.

Not...really. The Reaper would just fly through them like they were nothing. If I had to choose between one or the other, I'd rather take a dreadnought whose mass accelerator cannon can fire a 20 kg slug up to 1.3% of light speed every five seconds over one or two waves of easily-destroyed fighters.

I'd like to see a tiny fighter try to gouge a giant rift into a planet's surface.

[Shadowomega23]

The fast Dreadnaught is less armored then the others of her design, and has more armor then battlecruiser/heavy cruiser. Also instead of having one Massive eezo core like the reapers she has 2 cores which total mass is about the same as the one from the reapers.

[Moiaussi]

Wizz wrote...

So Shepard needs something what can dodge fire (Normandy) or somemthing what can hold reaper's fire (we haven't saw it yet).

Dodging worked soooo well for the SR-1, though, didn't it? How do you dodge an energy (i.e. lightspeed) weapon anyway?

[Angel-Shinkiro]

Moiaussi wrote...

Angel-Shinkiro wrote...

The fight between the Sr-2 and the Collector Cruiser during the suicide mission proves that the more agile craft is more likely to win.

If Shepard didn't tell Joker to go in close to finish off the Collector Cruiser the Normandy probaly wouldn't of been damage, though it would of been more logical to stay far from them Bioware couldn't think of another way for the ship to have been damage.

I still love you Bioware.

And yet that agility meant absolutely nothing when the SR-1 went down. As such, the whole 'agility' thing could have been luck. Also the upgraded shields would have been irrelevant if agility was enough.

Like I said the SR-1 went down because Bioware wanted it to go down. If you were to compare how the SR-1 moved around at the Battle of the Citadel to how it moved around during the attack by the Collector Cruiser you would see that they are radically different and that the SR-1 should of at least lasted longer then it did.

www.youtube.com/watch Battle of the Citadel

www.youtube.com/watch First ten mins of Mass Effect 2

As you can clearly see Joker dodged like he wanted to get hit. In the time between the Battle of the Citadel and the Collector attack Joker forgot that space was 3D and that he could continue moving to the left and not in to the BEAM OF DEATH.

Please don't pass me of as rude, i'm just angry that they couldn't give a more better way of the Normandy getting hit other than by Joker going straight in to the Collector's beam and that Joker coudn't pull off some fancy moves even though he is the best pilot in the entire Alliance Navy.

Bioware can give Shepard a dreadnought if they want to but i'm just saying that a frigate or evev a cruiser makes more sense then the big target a dreadnought would give.

Modifié par Angel-Shinkiro, 30 octobre 2010 - 09:12 .

[Moiaussi]

Angel-Shinkiro wrote...

Like I said the SR-1 went down because Bioware wanted it to go down. If you were to compare how the SR-1 moved around at the Battle of the Citadel to how it moved around during the attack by the Collector Cruiser you would see that they are radically different and that the SR-1 should of at least lasted longer then it did.

www.youtube.com/watch Battle of the Citadel

www.youtube.com/watch First ten mins of Mass Effect 2

As you can clearly see Joker dodged like he wanted to get hit. In the time between the Battle of the Citadel and the Collector attack Joker forgot that space was 3D and that he could continue moving to the left and not in to the BEAM OF DEATH.

Please don't pass me of as rude, i'm just angry that they couldn't give a more better way of the Normandy getting hit other than by Joker going straight in to the Collector's beam and that Joker coudn't pull off some fancy moves even though he is the best pilot in the entire Alliance Navy.

Bioware can give Shepard a dreadnought if they want to but i'm just saying that a frigate or evev a cruiser makes more sense then the big target a dreadnought would give.

Technically, everything is 'whether the writers want a ship to be hit.' Ships move at the speed of plot, have shields and weapons the strength of plot. If you are going to go there, then the rest of this discussion is rather moot...

The assumption (or at least vain hope) is that the writers want something resembling consistancy, in which case the two situations need to be reconciled somehow.

In the citadel battle, the Normandy was dealing with projectile weapons, which are a lot slower than visible light based weapons, and therefore the dodging in the citadel battle could have been proportionally more effective.

In the final battle the difference might have been EDI (the AI flying the ship with faster response times instead of Joker doing so, regardless of who sat in the chair... this also explains why Joker was out of his chair to play fire support as everyone does their final leap back to the ship), and/or luck.

Modifié par Moiaussi, 30 octobre 2010 - 09:28 .

[Ahriman]

Randy1083 wrote...

Not...really. The Reaper would just fly through them like they were nothing. If I had to choose between one or the other, I'd rather take a dreadnought whose mass accelerator cannon can fire a 20 kg slug up to 1.3% of light speed every five seconds over one or two waves of easily-destroyed fighters.

I'd like to see a tiny fighter try to gouge a giant rift into a planet's surface.

From Codex
"Only fighters and frigates enter CLOSE "knife fight" ranges of 10 or
fewer kilometers. Fighters loose their disruptor torpedoes, bringing
down a ship's kinetic barriers and allowing it to be swarmed by
frigates."
Fighters are tiny but dangerous.

Moiaussi wrote...

Dodging worked soooo well for the SR-1, though, didn't it? How do you dodge an energy (i.e. lightspeed) weapon anyway?

It's easier than you can think when there is no evil wizard and Joker remembers how to fly in space.


I mean, if Bioware wants Normandy to dodge, it will.

[GuardianAngel470]

Moiaussi wrote...

Wizz wrote...

So Shepard needs something what can dodge fire (Normandy) or somemthing what can hold reaper's fire (we haven't saw it yet).

Dodging worked soooo well for the SR-1, though, didn't it? How do you dodge an energy (i.e. lightspeed) weapon anyway?

Dive.

[mopotter]

I'm in the No - group. Please NO. I do not want ME3 to be an interactive space battle.



If they want to do something like that as a DLC where you can participate in the fight, fine, or an all new game fine, even better. But not ME3.



They can do the space battle like they did in ME1 I DON"T want to mess with this kind of strategy game.. I want ME 3 Shepard to continue being a squad based up front and personal, on the ground or on in the ship fighting, with rpg elements and lots of dialog and personal interaction.

[Phaedon]

Dreadnoughts suck in close range combat anyway