6837 réponses à ce sujet

[Marionetten]

I wouldn't be too worried about Isabela's appearance. Pudgy Varric got a remake so I'm sure she's in for the same.

[Anarya]

dan107 wrote...

By the way, am I the only one to notice that the people defending Isabela tend to be a lot more combative than the ones criticizing her? We're "insulting" a video game character. In response the other side constantly tries to insult us, while claiming the moral high ground. I have not insulted a single poster in any of these threads, and yet keep catching flak for my intelligence, maturity, even physical appearance. I don't really mind, it's all in good fun, but it's just a curious dynamic.

The reason why you keep catching flak for your posts about Isabela is because the insults you use against her are ones that women tend to find offensive in general. Not because you are perceived as insulting other posters personally.

If you came into the Isabela threads and said "I don't like her because I don't find her attractive and I don't like promiscuity" I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelash. Instead we get stuff like "Isabela's a dirty manfaced sl*t. What a WH*RE." And that's offensive.

Modifié par Anarya, 28 octobre 2010 - 01:23 .

[Spawny]

Anarya wrote...


The reason why you keep catching flak for your posts about Isabela is because the insults you use against her are ones that women tend to find offensive in general. Not because you are perceived as insulting other posters personally.

If you came into the Isabela threads and said "I don't like her because I don't find her attractive and I don't like promiscuity" I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelash. Instead we get stuff like "Isabela's a dirty manfaced sl*t. What a WH*RE." And that's offensive.

QFT!

[Maconbar]

Anarya wrote...

dan107 wrote...

By the way, am I the only one to notice that the people defending Isabela tend to be a lot more combative than the ones criticizing her? We're "insulting" a video game character. In response the other side constantly tries to insult us, while claiming the moral high ground. I have not insulted a single poster in any of these threads, and yet keep catching flak for my intelligence, maturity, even physical appearance. I don't really mind, it's all in good fun, but it's just a curious dynamic.

The reason why you keep catching flak for your posts about Isabela is because the insults you use against her are ones that women tend to find offensive in general. Not because you are perceived as insulting other posters personally.

If you came into the Isabela threads and said "I don't like her because I don't find her attractive and I don't like promiscuity" I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelash. Instead we get stuff like "Isabela's a dirty manfaced sl*t. What a WH*RE." And that's offensive.

fyi it's not just women that find stuff like that offensive.

[Anarya]

Maconbar wrote...

Anarya wrote...

dan107 wrote...

By the way, am I the only one to notice that the people defending Isabela tend to be a lot more combative than the ones criticizing her? We're "insulting" a video game character. In response the other side constantly tries to insult us, while claiming the moral high ground. I have not insulted a single poster in any of these threads, and yet keep catching flak for my intelligence, maturity, even physical appearance. I don't really mind, it's all in good fun, but it's just a curious dynamic.

The reason why you keep catching flak for your posts about Isabela is because the insults you use against her are ones that women tend to find offensive in general. Not because you are perceived as insulting other posters personally.

If you came into the Isabela threads and said "I don't like her because I don't find her attractive and I don't like promiscuity" I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelash. Instead we get stuff like "Isabela's a dirty manfaced sl*t. What a WH*RE." And that's offensive.

fyi it's not just women that find stuff like that offensive.

True, and a very good point. There's plenty of awesome progressive-minded men on these forums. So let me retroactively amend that to "insults PEOPLE tend to find offensive".

[dan107]

Anarya wrote...
The reason why you keep catching flak for your posts about Isabela is because the insults you use against her are ones that women tend to find offensive in general. Not because you are perceived as insulting other posters personally.

If you came into the Isabela threads and said "I don't like her because I don't find her attractive and I don't like promiscuity" I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelash. Instead we get stuff like "Isabela's a dirty manfaced sl*t. What a WH*RE." And that's offensive.

Well personally I don't think that sl*t and wh*re are insults. They are words that have a specific meaning, used appropriately in this context. It's not like calling someone an as*hole, where that word has no literal meaning and is used only to insult the person. Nonetheless, I had a discussion about this with one of the mods and we came to the conclusion that "floozy" is a less polarizing word, so that's what I've been trying to use since.

What I've been wondering though is how all the women who are defending Isabela now will react when she asks your love interest to bring some wood to her cabin. (Which, given her personality, seems like something she ought to do at some point). I bet most of the crowd defending her sexuality will be the first ones to scream "SKANK!"

[Pacifien]

For the record, sl*t and wh*re are deemed offensive on these forums and the continued used of the terms will be considered antagonistic behavior. (Which can get you banned.)

Modifié par Pacifien, 28 octobre 2010 - 01:39 .

[dan107]

Shavon wrote...

Skank and floozy are also offensive. You need to just stop. You are beginning to remind me of Busomjack. You walk into a fan thread, expecting a warm welcome to your insults.

LOL, try that int he Tali thread and see what you get.

Except that this is not a fan thread. It's a discussion thread. Not liking Isabela whatever reasons is every bit as valid as fawning over her. Why is that so difficult to accept?

[dan107]

Pacifien wrote...

For the record, sl*t and wh*re are deemed offensive on these forums and the continued used of the terms will be considered antagonistic behavior. (Which can get you banned.)

Duly noted.

[Leonia]

dan107 wrote...

Anarya wrote...
The reason why you keep catching flak for your posts about Isabela is because the insults you use against her are ones that women tend to find offensive in general. Not because you are perceived as insulting other posters personally.

If you came into the Isabela threads and said "I don't like her because I don't find her attractive and I don't like promiscuity" I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelash. Instead we get stuff like "Isabela's a dirty manfaced sl*t. What a WH*RE." And that's offensive.

Well personally I don't think that sl*t and wh*re are insults. They are words that have a specific meaning, used appropriately in this context. It's not like calling someone an as*hole, where that word has no literal meaning and is used only to insult the person. Nonetheless, I had a discussion about this with one of the mods and we came to the conclusion that "floozy" is a less polarizing word, so that's what I've been trying to use since.

What I've been wondering though is how all the women who are defending Isabela now will react when she asks your love interest to bring some wood to her cabin. (Which, given her personality, seems like something she ought to do at some point). I bet most of the crowd defending her sexuality will be the first ones to scream "SKANK!"

Note: Skank falls in the same category as those other words.

And for me, personally, I intend to romance Isabela so I don't think I'll be having that issue. You've not had a single conversation with the character and yet you're making all sorts of judgements about her. Is that how you treat women in real life too? Take one look and assume they must be some sort of "skank" because of how they dress or because they like boys and girls?

[Anarya]

dan107 wrote...

Anarya wrote...
The reason why you keep catching flak for your posts about Isabela is because the insults you use against her are ones that women tend to find offensive in general. Not because you are perceived as insulting other posters personally.

If you came into the Isabela threads and said "I don't like her because I don't find her attractive and I don't like promiscuity" I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelash. Instead we get stuff like "Isabela's a dirty manfaced sl*t. What a WH*RE." And that's offensive.

Well personally I don't think that sl*t and wh*re are insults. They are words that have a specific meaning, used appropriately in this context. It's not like calling someone an as*hole, where that word has no literal meaning and is used only to insult the person. Nonetheless, I had a discussion about this with one of the mods and we came to the conclusion that "floozy" is a less polarizing word, so that's what I've been trying to use since.

What I've been wondering though is how all the women who are defending Isabela now will react when she asks your love interest to bring some wood to her cabin. (Which, given her personality, seems like something she ought to do at some point). I bet most of the crowd defending her sexuality will be the first ones to scream "SKANK!"

Ok I really don't understand that argument. Not to sound insulting (no offense is intended), but is your native language not English? Sl*t and wh*re are pretty clearly insults with a long history of use against women. It is *exactly* like calling someone an a-hole, which literally does have a "literal meaning". You are taking a word for something perceived as bad and/or dirty and using it against someone.

It's fine that you've settled on a less polarizing word for her, but it's silly to claim martyrdom given your previous posts.

I don't care if you like Isabela or not, personally. My point is, you can find less offensive ways of wording your views.

[Vankraft]

Anarya wrote...

dan107 wrote...

By the way, am I the only one to notice that the people defending Isabela tend to be a lot more combative than the ones criticizing her? We're "insulting" a video game character. In response the other side constantly tries to insult us, while claiming the moral high ground. I have not insulted a single poster in any of these threads, and yet keep catching flak for my intelligence, maturity, even physical appearance. I don't really mind, it's all in good fun, but it's just a curious dynamic.

The reason why you keep catching flak for your posts about Isabela is because the insults you use against her are ones that women tend to find offensive in general. Not because you are perceived as insulting other posters personally.

If you came into the Isabela threads and said "I don't like her because I don't find her attractive and I don't like promiscuity" I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelash. Instead we get stuff like "Isabela's a dirty manfaced sl*t. What a WH*RE." And that's offensive.

Still, It is Dragon Age 2 related, and i'd rather have people speak their minds than start tip-toeing on egg shells as to not offend anyone.

As for Isabela, I think she'd be a fantastic group member in DA2, I mean, She is a pirate for one and ended up defeating in combat what?  3 to 4 guys back at the pearl. She ticks all the right boxes for an interesting party member.

[KhorinShizucor]

So I said in the very first thread about Isabela that I didn't like her much in Origins but I realized, I don't really remember her... haha



I recently watched a few videos of her and found her to be quite pleasant to talk to. She does flirt with both males & females. I look forward to getting beneath all that though.



For my female Hawke, I think she'll become a rival best friend. Might be the same for male Hawke but as a romance companion.

[dan107]

leonia42 wrote...
And for me, personally, I intend to romance Isabela so I don't think I'll be having that issue. You've not had a single conversation with the character and yet you're making all sorts of judgements about her. Is that how you treat women in real life too? Take one look and assume they must be some sort of "skank" because of how they dress or because they like boys and girls?

My Warden had a "conversation" with her in DA:O. Sleeping with someone you just met 5 minutes ago in a seedy tavern, along with his friends that just happened to be there pretty objectively makes her a "woman of lose moral principles" (that better?). Which would be fine if she were to remain a 2 bit character. Making her into a full fledged romance with that as a starting point is not a good idea IMO.

[Spawny]

Or she could just be a sexually confident woman who knows what she wants and gets it, just like some males that prowl, the female version exists out there. But once again your warden has to convince her into it in the first place soooooooo it takes two to tango...or maybe 4 *shrug*

Modifié par HagSpawn, 28 octobre 2010 - 01:52 .

[KhorinShizucor]

dan107 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...
And for me, personally, I intend to romance Isabela so I don't think I'll be having that issue. You've not had a single conversation with the character and yet you're making all sorts of judgements about her. Is that how you treat women in real life too? Take one look and assume they must be some sort of "skank" because of how they dress or because they like boys and girls?

My Warden had a "conversation" with her in DA:O. Sleeping with someone you just met 5 minutes ago in a seedy tavern, along with his friends that just happened to be there pretty objectively makes her a "woman of lose moral principles" (that better?). Which would be fine if she were to remain a 2 bit character. Making her into a full fledged romance with that as a starting point is not a good idea IMO.

I agree with you, which is why I hope we can go beneath that superficial layer. However, since she's already considered DA2's "easy lover", you might have to sleep with her to get to know her more.

[dan107]

Anarya wrote...
Ok I really don't understand that argument. Not to sound insulting (no offense is intended), but is your native language not English? Sl*t and wh*re are pretty clearly insults with a long history of use against women. It is *exactly* like calling someone an a-hole, which literally does have a "literal meaning". You are taking a word for something perceived as bad and/or dirty and using it against someone.

The difference is that when you call someone an assh*le, it's understood by all reasonable people that you don't literally mean that he is the opening of someone rectum. Thus that makes it an unambiguous insult.

When you call someone a sl*t, you could, and most likely do, mean that she is quite literally a woman that sleeps around with a lot of men. Thus that makes it a word used appropriately in the context. The negative connotations of the word come with the fact that a woman that sleeps around tends to be perceived negatively by society. If, however, you have no problem with such behavior, you should, logically, not have a problem with the word that describes it.

Like I said, I won't use the word anymore since mods asked me not to, but I hope you see my point.

[Pacifien]

This is going to look familiar to some of you (or it should) but it needs saying here. There is much to keep in mind about these threads and your fellow posters:

Please reacquaint yourselves with the Bioware Social Network Rules of Conduct.

People are going to have differing opinions, both good and bad about a character. Respect the opinions of the other posters. Argue the topic, not each other. If you feel the person is only being contradictory to get a rise out of others, this defines trolling and you can send a PM to a moderator to let them know. But remember, sometimes a person simply has a differing point of view and this is perfectly acceptable.

Trolling is not tolerated, but neither is responding to trolling. If you feel that a thread is being trolled, do not respond to the troller. If you see others responding to the troller and would like them to stop, send them a PM asking them to do so. Do not post in the thread in response to any trolling attempt. Let a moderator know about the situation and be patient: moderators address the issues as they have time.

Try to focus your discussion on the character who is the main subject of the thread. It is inevitable that discussion will stray from time to time, but if you find yourself discussing at length about these new topics, consider taking the topics to the appropriate threads/forums.

Forums are for in-depth discussion and are not to be used as a chatroom. Informing people of your arrival or departure to the thread is not necessary. Focusing on the page count of a thread is not necessary. Telling people about your day is better suited for PM or groups. There is no need to draw focus to a lull in the discussions.

Do not discuss aspects of the forum on the forums. Specific problems with using the forums belongs in the Social.bioware.com Site Help Forum. Your opinions on how a thread is doing, where a thread is going, what another thread is like, and the decisions of the forum moderators are all off-topic and should be taken elsewhere.

If you have questions, please send a moderator a PM. We welcome your concerns or your criticisms.

[Neesee]

Ah, the rivalry romance. Perhaps I'll decide which of my Hawkes will get to have that with Isabela.



As to earlier questions about how much she will reveal about Rivain, I am unsure. It would be nice to get more info on it though.

[nightcobra]

well i'll be off the forums for a few hours, gotta work. keep on discussing isabela folks and keep it civil;)

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 28 octobre 2010 - 01:59 .

[Spawny]

dan107 wrote...

The difference is that when you call someone an assh*le, it's understood by all reasonable people that you don't literally mean that he is the opening of someone rectum. Thus that makes it an unambiguous insult.

When you call someone a sl*t, you could, and most likely do, mean that she is quite literally a woman that sleeps around with a lot of men. Thus that makes it a word used appropriately in the context. The negative connotations of the word come with the fact that a woman that sleeps around tends to be perceived negatively by society.

There is many terms for it, but you just happen to use the most offensive ones.  Just because a word means exactly that doesn't always mean you have to use it. Tact is a good friend when working out what terms to use.

[Leonia]

[Edit: Yeah, that thing I posted? It says don't discuss the thread on the thread. -- Pacifien]

Modifié par Pacifien, 28 octobre 2010 - 02:02 .