6837 réponses à ce sujet

[axl99]

Their loss. Not ours.

[hoorayforicecream]

axl99 wrote...

The clinic scene is actually sort of kind of random. You either see the seneschal or Isabela talking to Anders. And if you've talked to Fenris earlier, you'll figure out that she bedded the seneschal to keep him from investigating Fenris' illegal acquisition of a Hightown mansion.

The fact of the matter is that people missed or purposely ignored seeing Isabela helping out a friend in need.

I don't know. This is one of those things that bothered me to begin with. There's no real indication that Isabela bedded anybody to help Fenris. The exact words were:

Isabela: So the seneschal's tax collector won't be coming around again, like you asked. Funny story.
Fenris: I'll pass, but thank you for the help.
Isabela: Spoilsport. Why you want to squat up here in Hightown is beyond me.
Fenris: I like the view.
Isabela: So do I.

You could connect those dots, but it's tenuous. Would she do something like that? Maybe. But I'd like to think that she'd be more than equally willing to blackmail, stab, duel, or bargain, all of which could result in funny stories.

[mesmerizedish]

Yeah, I *never* thought that Isabela was whoring herself out there. I assumed that she had used other wiles.

Maybe that's because I see her as someone who has sex because she wants to, not as a means to an end. Or rather, sex is the end for her. I really do think that Isabela wouldn't "lower herself" to using sex like that.

[axl99]

Anders comment to the seneschal didn't help either, but there we have it.

[hoorayforicecream]

axl99 wrote...

Anders comment to the seneschal didn't help either, but there we have it.

When I heard it, the first thing I thought was that he was just making a passing dig at Isabela like Sebastian, Fenris and Aveline all do. He's hardly the first to make such comments.

[TobiTobsen]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

axl99 wrote...

The clinic scene is actually sort of kind of random. You either see the seneschal or Isabela talking to Anders. And if you've talked to Fenris earlier, you'll figure out that she bedded the seneschal to keep him from investigating Fenris' illegal acquisition of a Hightown mansion.

The fact of the matter is that people missed or purposely ignored seeing Isabela helping out a friend in need.

I don't know. This is one of those things that bothered me to begin with. There's no real indication that Isabela bedded anybody to help Fenris. The exact words were:

Isabela: So the seneschal's tax collector won't be coming around again, like you asked. Funny story.
Fenris: I'll pass, but thank you for the help.
Isabela: Spoilsport. Why you want to squat up here in Hightown is beyond me.
Fenris: I like the view.
Isabela: So do I.

You could connect those dots, but it's tenuous. Would she do something like that? Maybe. But I'd like to think that she'd be more than equally willing to blackmail, stab, duel, or bargain, all of which could result in funny stories.

My first thought was that she simply caused the tax collector to "vanish" or threatened him.
But axl99's theory sounds not impossibly far-fetched. The seneschal is no Emile and if he keeps his mouth shut he isn't that annoying or revolting.

However I prefer my version and keep thinking that she used other methods. Our 'Bela is too good for that sleazy politician.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 01 mai 2011 - 04:24 .

[Blansten]

In my head she beat the tax collector in a card game. The sleeping with him option doesn't ring true to the character for me.

[Elessie]

I didn't really connect that either. But now that you mention it, Seneschal Bran does say, "Your dalliance with the woman who caused the Qunari incident is troubling, Champion. Troubling, but understandable."

[hoorayforicecream]

Elessie wrote...

I didn't really connect that either. But now that you mention it, Seneschal Bran does say, "Your dalliance with the woman who caused the Qunari incident is troubling, Champion. Troubling, but understandable."

I always thought that particular line just meant that Hawke and Isabela were open about seeing each other by then. I never really read that much into it.

[Elessie]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Elessie wrote...

I didn't really connect that either. But now that you mention it, Seneschal Bran does say, "Your dalliance with the woman who caused the Qunari incident is troubling, Champion. Troubling, but understandable."

I always thought that particular line just meant that Hawke and Isabela were open about seeing each other by then. I never really read that much into it.

I took it to mean he thought she was hot. 

[hoorayforicecream]

Elessie wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Elessie wrote...

I didn't really connect that either. But now that you mention it, Seneschal Bran does say, "Your dalliance with the woman who caused the Qunari incident is troubling, Champion. Troubling, but understandable."

I always thought that particular line just meant that Hawke and Isabela were open about seeing each other by then. I never really read that much into it.

I took it to mean he thought she was hot. 

That goes without saying. Or should, at least. She is hot, as suns are hot.

[TobiTobsen]

Elessie wrote...

I took it to mean he thought she was hot. 

Even the haters can't deny that.

[Epantiras]

I like how it's hinted that all party members try to help each-other while Hawke isn't there. Like Varric paying thugs not to attack Merril, Isabela helping Fenris deal with tax collectors and Fenris helping Aveline catching slavers.

Speaking of Isabela's "over-sexualization", I agree that it's some kind of "mask" she wears. She does enjoy casual sex, but she's also afraid of stable relationships and that's one of the things she keeps under the surface. I have to admit at first I was annoyed because she sounded like a herotomaniac Zevran-clone (at least that was my first impression), but in the end she stands out as a well written character with hidden qualities.
No, let's not make jokes about her "hidden qualities" :-P

[Maria Caliban]

I have thoughts on this subject, but don't have the time to compose and write them all right now. That said, I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts.

[LiquidGrape]

Epantiras wrote...

No, let's not make jokes about her "hidden qualities" :-P

Aw, but I love Isabela's hidden qualities!

She tells great secrets, too.

As for Isabela's dealings with the seneschal...I suspect it was deliberately left ambiguous.
Some will assume she approached the issue with sex, some will assume she did it by other means.
I honestly cannot say which I find more likely, but I think the question adds to her inherent ambivalence as a character.

I don't think she is somehow "above" the idea of using sex to gain an advantage, especially not if it might help someone for whom she's come to develop a certain fondness (in this case, Fenris).
She seems rather partial to the whole process anyway, so if there can be something other than just sexual gratification to be attained, all the better, right?
At the same time, she is demonstrably more than capable of solving problems differently, so it's not as if she couldn't think up something else for the occasion.

If the case would be that she actually bedded the seneschal, I don't think of it as "whoring out" as much as I think of it as Isabela using a particular brand of her particular talents for a goal to which she feels committed.
It's not all that different from Leliana's tasks as a bard, albeit much less "morally questionable" seeing as Isabela did it for the benefit of a friend rather than a web of political intrigue.

  Also, less satin cushions and fine embroidery and more manila rope and crude drawings in the margins.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 01 mai 2011 - 07:11 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I have thoughts on this subject, but don't have the time to compose and write them all right now. That said, I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts.

Glad to see I'm not the only tease around here.

[whykikyouwhy]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I have thoughts on this subject, but don't have the time to compose and write them all right now. That said, I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts.

Glad to see I'm not the only tease around here.

But who is the greater one?

[mesmerizedish]

*abstains from voting*

I don't dislike the idea of Isabela getting down with Bran. He's pretty cute.

I do dislike the idea of Isabela getting down with Bran beacaus she had to to achieve some other goal, as opposed to doing it because she wanted to.

[hoorayforicecream]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

*abstains from voting*

I don't dislike the idea of Isabela getting down with Bran. He's pretty cute.

I do dislike the idea of Isabela getting down with Bran beacaus she had to to achieve some other goal, as opposed to doing it because she wanted to.

To be fair, it could have been two ships with one volley. But seeing as she'd never said anything about any interest in Bran before, it remains speculation.

[LiquidGrape]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I don't dislike the idea of Isabela getting down with Bran. He's pretty cute.

I do dislike the idea of Isabela getting down with Bran beacaus she had to to achieve some other goal, as opposed to doing it because she wanted to.

I'm not at all fond of the notion that Isabela would simply be filling the trite role of "scarlet woman using her womanly charms", either.
The point I was trying to get across is that if Isabela seduced Bran, I would think she derived just as much pleasure from doing it as she solved an unrelated issue.

...Of course, that is assuming Bran could deliver.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 01 mai 2011 - 07:32 .

[TobiTobsen]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

*abstains from voting*

I don't dislike the idea of Isabela getting down with Bran. He's pretty cute.

I do dislike the idea of Isabela getting down with Bran beacaus she had to to achieve some other goal, as opposed to doing it because she wanted to.

Wouldn't combining fun with buisness be pretty fitting for Isabela? Having fun with Bran and getting the authorities of Fenris' back. Two birds with one stone.

[whykikyouwhy]

LiquidGrape wrote...

I'm not at all fond of the notion that Isabela would simply be filling the trite role of "scarlet woman using her womanly charms", either.
The point I was trying to get across is that if Isabela seduced Bran, I would think she derived just as much pleasure from doing it as she solved an unrelated issue.

...Of course, that is assuming Bran could deliver.

 
It may be safe to wager that Isabela would definitely get some pleasure from any such act she would engage it. And if the other party wasn't fulfilling that requirement, she's a clever girl...probably very imaginative.

And if Bran did happen to be a ship passing in the night (which I don't believe), Isabela may just place him in the same realm as Zevran - "I've had better."

[axl99]

And she's even looking at Hawke as she says it.

[LiquidGrape]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
 
It may be safe to wager that Isabela would definitely get some pleasure from any such act she would engage it. And if the other party wasn't fulfilling that requirement, she's a clever girl...probably very imaginative.

Good point. Something tells me you'd be hard-pressed to be bored with Isabela in the bunk.




...heh. "Hard-pressed".

And if Bran did happen to be a ship passing in the night (which I don't believe), Isabela may just place him in the same realm as Zevran - "I've had better."

axl99 wrote...

And she's even looking at Hawke as she says it.

That was one of those moments where I went all hot-faced and "ohdearnowreallyIsayeep".

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 01 mai 2011 - 07:47 .

[whykikyouwhy]

LiquidGrape wrote...

That was one of those moments where I went all hot-faced and "ohdearnowreallyIsayeep".

I'll confess that there were several Isabela moments after which I had the same reaction. Usually followed with a "D***********mn!"