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[caradoc2000]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I don't understand why people keep shortening her name to 'Bela. Especially fanfic writers, in their work. Nobody ever refers to her by anything but her full name.

Bethany calls her 'Bela.

[Quething]

caradoc2000 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I don't understand why people keep shortening her name to 'Bela. Especially fanfic writers, in their work. Nobody ever refers to her by anything but her full name.

Bethany calls her 'Bela.

Indeed. Also, if it's a Hawke calling her that, it's pretty clearly a character marker. It means something about Varric that he says Blondie/Broody/Rivaini instead of Anders/Fenris/Isabela. It means something about Isabela that she calls Merrill Kitten. Why shouldn't Hawke's name choices be as meaningful?

The one I can't get over is, there's at least one writer on the kmeme who has Isabela call Hawke "Kitten." That's... wrong.

[Wentletrap]

I am guilty of shortening "Isabela" to "'Bela", but only to preserve poetic rhythm and meter when writing limericks. It's a nicer option than "Izzy", which is ugly.

"Isabela" is a pretty clunky word to fit into a limerick.

[hoorayforicecream]

caradoc2000 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I don't understand why people keep shortening her name to 'Bela. Especially fanfic writers, in their work. Nobody ever refers to her by anything but her full name.

Bethany calls her 'Bela.

When? According to the dialogue page on the wiki, she does not.

[caradoc2000]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

Bethany calls her 'Bela.

When? According to the dialogue page on the wiki, she does not.

When you initiate the quest Finders Keepers.

[Quething]

Wentletrap wrote...

I am guilty of shortening "Isabela" to "'Bela", but only to preserve poetic rhythm and meter when writing limericks. It's a nicer option than "Izzy", which is ugly.

"Isabela" is a pretty clunky word to fit into a limerick.

Yeah, I myself call her Izzy in discussion, but in an actual fic (or... limerick) it'd only ever be Bela. "Izzy" doesn't... fit the setting.

I love that line of Beth's, by the way, it's one of the few moments Bethany shows a bit of bite. Their relationship is usually just "Isabela trying to corrupt Beth, Beth having none of it," it's nice to see her tease back. (Is it time to whine about how neither sibling comments on my Izzymance in Legacy? Yes? Oh good. I wanted Beth to tease her more during Legacy.)

[Nyxia]

I am fine with Izzy 
When people use Bela instead of Isabela, it reminds me of how the chick shortened Isabella to Bella in Twilight haha.

[hoorayforicecream]

caradoc2000 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

Bethany calls her 'Bela.

When? According to the dialogue page on the wiki, she does not.

When you initiate the quest Finders Keepers.

I stand corrected. I still dislike it, especially since Bethany refers to Isabela by name everywhere else.

[Lenimph]

Nyxia wrote...

I am fine with Izzy 
When people use Bela instead of Isabela, it reminds me of how the chick shortened Isabella to Bella in Twilight haha.

This... 

[Batlass8]

Does anyone else automatically think of Isabela when they read John Masefield's 'Sea Fever,' or is it just me?

[whykikyouwhy]

Batlass8 wrote...

Does anyone else automatically think of Isabela when they read John Masefield's 'Sea Fever,' or is it just me?

I'd say that there's more than a bit of that poem singing through Isabela's soul.

Makes me wonder if it had some influence on some of her character profile.

[Quething]

Ah yes, "and a star to steer her by." Nighttime is the best time to be on a ship. I wonder if Isabela ever misses the stars while she's stuck in Kirkwall? Light pollution from a pre-industrial city can't be that bad, but there does seem to be an issue of smog and buildings, if nothing else.

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I stand corrected. I still dislike it, especially since Bethany refers to Isabela by name everywhere else.

Why?

I have a friend who refers to me as "Oregano" (long story). The first year of our acquaintance, we spent about 80% of our time together watching anime, so she also got in the habit of occasionally calling me "O-chan." To this day, she still uses both. Which she calls me depends entirely on context; is she being serious or playful, is she talking to me or about me to someone else, is she trying to get my attention or just acknowledging my presence. Most of the time, it's Oregano. Doesn't mean she never calls me anything else.

Bethany is in the game so briefly and talks to Isabela so rarely that she only uses her name maybe half a dozen times. Is it so strange to think that one of those times, when her attitude is different than it usually is, she would use a variation of it that's different than she usually does?

Modifié par Quething, 24 septembre 2011 - 07:57 .

[Sepewrath]

Yeah there are a lot of different things my friends call me and I call them, its completely random. Usually its whatever goes best with the insult that we've come up with.

[whykikyouwhy]

I don't like shortening her name because other names (aside from Varric's nickname for her) don't seem to fit her personality, imo. To me, she wouldn't answer to either Izzy or 'Bela. 'Isabela' is just much more dynamic and striking, and thus, more her. (Ironically enough, since the wiki states that it's not her real name.) So too, if you were to capture her adventures in bardic tales, I would think "Isabela, Legendary Scourge of the Seas" would be much more evocative than "Izzy, Legendary Scourge of the Seas."

As odd as this may sound, it also strikes me as too familiar...from me, that is. But I'm that way even with loved ones - unless they are very close friends or relatives, and I know they are comfortable with certain monikers, I won't shorten or abbreviate their names. It applies to folks I know here on the BSN as well. Only in a few instances do I shorten names. So maybe it's all a personal preference thing. What trips off the tongue (or the mental tongue) easier or more comfortably.

As for Bethany using 'Bela...*shrug* Probably out of endearment. But I guess because it only happens that one time, it doesn't seem like something common amongst the companions.

[hoorayforicecream]

Quething wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I stand corrected. I still dislike it, especially since Bethany refers to Isabela by name everywhere else.

Why?

I have a friend who refers to me as "Oregano" (long story). The first year of our acquaintance, we spent about 80% of our time together watching anime, so she also got in the habit of occasionally calling me "O-chan." To this day, she still uses both. Which she calls me depends entirely on context; is she being serious or playful, is she talking to me or about me to someone else, is she trying to get my attention or just acknowledging my presence. Most of the time, it's Oregano. Doesn't mean she never calls me anything else.

Bethany is in the game so briefly and talks to Isabela so rarely that she only uses her name maybe half a dozen times. Is it so strange to think that one of those times, when her attitude is different than it usually is, she would use a variation of it that's different than she usually does?

See, if there was a story to be told, then I'd agree with it. If there was some sort of consistency, then I could buy into it. Maybe if there was some history between Bethany and Isabela or something, I could see Bethany calling her that. If Bethany called her that more than once, maybe.

But Bethany does it as a one-off shortly after meeting the pirate, and thereafter never, ever uses it again. What irks me is that there isn't any reason for it aside from "it is shorter than her full name". There's no long story to explain it, or intimacy associated with it. There's no personality quirk that makes it make sense. It's just someone with almost no history calling her that shortly after the first meeting. I can see why Isabela calls Bethany "Sweetness", Hawke "Sweet Thing", and Merrill "Kitten". It's clear that she's consistent about it. Calling her 'Bela isn't consistent at all, yet it is a fairly common practice in fan fiction - that's why it bothers me.

[Quething]

Fair enough on Bethany. As far as fic goes, though, do you object to other established NPCs using it (Bethany, Fenris, whoever) or to anyone using it at all (as, for example, a Hawke who consistently calls her that)?

Because I definitely agree about existing characters, it weirds me out in any fic in any genre when established characters start using new nicknames for each other without justification. But in video games, the PC's always a weird grey area to me. Morrigan will only ever call you "Warden," but is that because Morrigan wouldn't actually use your first name, or because the game technology can't accommodate her knowing it? Hawke will only ever call Isabela "Isabela," but does that mean that's true for every possible Hawke, or is it just a limitation of the voiced protagonist?

I still think it requires a deft touch; there's a writer on the kmeme who has Varric call their particular Hawke "Elfroot," and that works really well for me, whereas another story that has Anders calling Hawke "eskling" as a term of Anderfels endearment strikes me as distractingly OOC. But I do think that with Hawke at least, there's a lot of wiggle room beyond the limits of the dialog wheel.

Modifié par Quething, 25 septembre 2011 - 12:35 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Quething wrote...

Fair enough on Bethany. As far as fic goes, though, do you object to other established NPCs using it (Bethany, Fenris, whoever) or to anyone using it at all (as, for example, a Hawke who consistently calls her that)?

Because I definitely agree about existing characters, it weirds me out in any fic in any genre when established characters start using new nicknames for each other without justification. But in video games, the PC's always a weird grey area to me. Morrigan will only ever call you "Warden," but is that because Morrigan wouldn't actually use your first name, or because the game technology can't accommodate her knowing it? Hawke will only ever call Isabela "Isabela," but does that mean that's true for every possible Hawke, or is it just a limitation of the voiced protagonist?

I still think it requires a deft touch; there's a writer on the kmeme who has Varric call their particular Hawke "Elfroot," and that works really well for me, whereas another story that has Anders calling Hawke "eskling" as a term of Anderfels endearment strikes me as distractingly OOC. But I do think that with Hawke at least, there's a lot of wiggle room beyond the limits of the dialog wheel.

Personally, I'm ok with the use of nicknames, as long as they are inserted with some sort of established storyline. Like... if, for example, there was a story behind it, and it was established. A large portion of that is dependent on the style and skill of the writer. There needs to be some sort of establishing, and depending on the 'when' it occurs, there should be some sort of reasonable explanation why they *aren't* used in the game. Is it only when they are in private? Is it because they found some sort of special story involved? Is it because of some other unknown aspect of their lives? There has to be a reasonable explanation for it that doesn't feel tacked on or handwavy, or it breaks immersion.

This is why I don't like random authors using 'Bela as a nickname. There's no apparent reason to use it aside from "It's shorter than using Isabela", and that doesn't stop it from breaking the immersion because it's inconsistent with the game world we're all familiar with.

[TEWR]

Personally, I'm ok with the use of nicknames, as long as they are inserted with some sort of established storyline. Like... if, for example, there was a story behind it, and it was established. A large portion of that is dependent on the style and skill of the writer. There needs to be some sort of establishing, and depending on the 'when' it occurs, there should be some sort of reasonable explanation why they *aren't* used in the game. Is it only when they are in private? Is it because they found some sort of special story involved? Is it because of some other unknown aspect of their lives? There has to be a reasonable explanation for it that doesn't feel tacked on or handwavy, or it breaks immersion.

This is why I don't like random authors using 'Bela as a nickname. There's no apparent reason to use it aside from "It's shorter than using Isabela", and that doesn't stop it from breaking the immersion because it's inconsistent with the game world we're all familiar with.

There doesn't always have to be a story behind a nickname. Sometimes people do in fact shorten a name because of personal preference or because it's easier. Maybe Bethany finds that calling Isabela 'Bela fits her more.

Whether that would be a story to you I don't know, but it's enough of a personal reason for Bethany to want to call her 'Bela.

[hoorayforicecream]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

There doesn't always have to be a story behind a nickname. Sometimes people do in fact shorten a name because of personal preference or because it's easier. Maybe Bethany finds that calling Isabela 'Bela fits her more.

That would make sense if Bethany did it more than once. But she doesn't; she refers to Isabela by her full name several other times over the course of the game. That's why it is incongruous.

Whether that would be a story to you I don't know, but it's enough of a personal reason for Bethany to want to call her 'Bela.

Except it isn't, because she doesn't. It'd be like me calling you "Dux" once, and then never speaking of it again. I could do it, but it would make very little sense because there's no established reason for it. A lot of characterization is consistency. We are given a character concept, and we can extrapolate situations from it with thoughts like "yes, that makes sense, because she would act this way" because a good character tends to be internally consistent. If Bethany referred to Isabela as 'Bela more than once (the way Isabela calls her sweetness), I would be fine with it. But she doesn't. And then the fanfic writers have *other* people refer to Isabela as 'Bela, and that makes no sense whatsoever, because every example in the game besides the one Bethany pulls out in Act 1 calls her "Isabela" except for Varric, who is extremely consistent about his nicknames for the cast.

[TEWR]

That would make sense if Bethany did it more than once. But she doesn't; she refers to Isabela by her full name several other times over the course of the game. That's why it is incongruous.

The dialogue page says that she uses Isabela one time though. Does she use Isabela's full name outside of banter at any time? Because if she doesn't, it's just one case on both ends, and is thus equal.

Except it isn't, because she doesn't. It'd be like me calling you "Dux" once, and then never speaking of it again. I could do it, but it would make very little sense because there's no established reason for it. A lot of characterization is consistency. We are given a character concept, and we can extrapolate situations from it with thoughts like "yes, that makes sense, because she would act this way" because a good character tends to be internally consistent. If Bethany referred to Isabela as 'Bela more than once (the way Isabela calls her sweetness), I would be fine with it. But she doesn't. And then the fanfic writers have *other* people refer to Isabela as 'Bela, and that makes no sense whatsoever, because every example in the game besides the one Bethany pulls out in Act 1 calls her "Isabela" except for Varric, who is extremely consistent about his nicknames for the cast.

I would think it might be more like calling me Joey once, then Joe, then Joey, and so on. Both are accepted shortened versions of my name.

Though it does seem like a constant switching would be very confusing, but as far as I know Bethany only uses Isabela and 'Bela one time each.

I do agree though that other people using the name 'Bela to refer to Isabela because they can is just... odd. Bethany I don't mind, but random strangers? Ehh it does seem weird, unless they're like childhood friends or something.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 25 septembre 2011 - 04:09 .

[Batlass8]

My canon!Hawke pretty consistently refers to Isabela as 'Captain,' at least for the first couple years that they know each other. (Yes, my canon game has not progressed far enough for me to know whether this remains true). I think it's largely because Isabela introduced herself as 'Captain Isabela,' and then hired Hawke. For a while, Hawke looks on Isabela as an employer/business acquaintance more than anything else. When she's really frustrated with the pirate, though, she'll call her by her name, so I guess it eventually devolves into a nickname, and then probably fades away altogether.

Plus, calling Isabela 'Captain,' eventually has the added benefit of irritating Aveline, and much as my Hawke loves the Guard-Captain, she just can't resist.

Modifié par Batlass8, 25 septembre 2011 - 09:55 .

[hoorayforicecream]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

That would make sense if Bethany did it more than once. But she doesn't; she refers to Isabela by her full name several other times over the course of the game. That's why it is incongruous.

The dialogue page says that she uses Isabela one time though. Does she use Isabela's full name outside of banter at any time? Because if she doesn't, it's just one case on both ends, and is thus equal.

Twice in banter, actually. I need to go back and check, but I'm pretty sure she does use Isabela's name in places other than banter.

I do know that there is only one instance of 'Bela in the entire talk table though, so if Bethany refers to the pirate by name anywhere outside of that one time, it is by full name.

[Heidenreich]

I just think you're being nit-picky ;p. Calling her by 'Bela, which is referenced, albeit only once, in game, is less irritating then calling her Izzy, because no one actually ever ever ever calls her Izzy. At least by calling her Bela, there's reference for it.. even so much as you heard your sister say it once and wanted to see how it fit.


If someone makes a reference to Twilight and DA2 again I think I might have to punch some people. Seriously. There were Isabela's in the world before that one, and there were two boys fighting over a girl that doesn't deserve either of them before that horrible horrible Mormon-bible-fanfiction ever dreamed of existing.

Bleuh.





Also, I'm totally only visiting because I'm frustrated that I can't sleep with Isabela and then Romance Fenris. Grrrr.

[Quething]

Batlass8 wrote...

My canon!Hawke pretty consistently refers to Isabela as 'Captain,' at least for the first couple years that they know each other. (Yes, my canon game has not progressed far enough for me to know whether this remains true). I think it's largely because Isabela introduced herself as 'Captain Isabela,' and then hired Hawke. For a while, Hawke looks on Isabela as an employer/business acquaintance more than anything else. When she's really frustrated with the pirate, though, she'll call her by her name, so I guess it eventually devolves into a nickname, and then probably fades away altogether.

Plus, calling Isabela 'Captain,' eventually has the added benefit of irritating Aveline, and much as my Hawke loves the Guard-Captain, she just can't resist.

Trolling is always a legit reason for a nickname.

(Actually that's as good a reason as any for a Hawke to use "Bela," since I do agree that it might very well annoy her a little bit to be called that. A good bout of mutual teasing has always been a foundation of main!Hawke's relationship with... well, everyone in the party who teases back, actually. I suppose it's mostly non-reciprocal teasing with Aveline.)

[Nyxia]

Found them on the net, yes I'm very good at what I do, which is lurking.