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The Official Isabela Discussion thread 2.0 **VA: Victoria Kruger**


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#6651
shotgun-shepard

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Cool, we seem to have similar reasons. I actually played as a male Hawke first and paid very little attention to Isabela. But after looking through the dialogue threads on the forums, she sounded hilarious and I gave her a go with a sarcastic female Hawke, they are certainly a wonderful match for one another!

Now I only ever play as default Marian (always always always a two-handed warrior because it's a great contrast to Isabela's fighting style and being a mage makes no sense to me in terms of the narrative...I love the idea of the 'ordinary' warrior rising up, but I digress.) and I can't resist the pirate wench and I'm not sure I want to ;P

The 'just rutting' vs. 'if you ever want to do it again' is a great example of how the games multiple verses changes a character, especially for a player wjo has that omniscient knowledge of what could be. Yes Isabela, keep having fun times with Marian, what could possibly go wrong.
Although again in my head-canon, I imagine them having had a physical relationship almost from the start, the scene in the game simply being the first time Isabela actively seeks Hawke out and therefore get 'rewarded' for it *ahem*. I just can't see my Hawke holding off for three whole years when there was such an open invitation on the table...I always imagine her watching the bar brawl when we first see Isabela and then turning to whoever's in the pary and saying "I...I think I'm in love..." in that dreamy sarcastic voice she does.

Anyhow that had nothing to do with my essay, but again thanks for your input, if I use anything, I will give you full credit of course!

Edit: Oh wow, I'm on top! ...of the page.

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Double Edit: I decided the pictures were funnier if switched around. Posted Image

Modifié par shotgun-shepard, 01 mars 2012 - 11:20 .


#6652
CuriousArtemis

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shotgun-shepard wrote...

Basically I'm going to explore the argument between players that Isabela is a. a shallow piece of fan-service, or b. a deep character and potential feminist figure.

 

I think she is both.  

I think her character design clearly illustrates an attempt at fan-service.  She does not wear pants, and her panties are a black thong, apparently.  Her very large breasts remain unrealistically uplifted beneath her tight, tiny top.

She is a deep character.  All of the Companions in DA2 are incredibly deep characters.  

Is she a potentially feminist figure?  She either is or she isn't.  

Feminism is unique in that it can be interpreted and explained in a multitude of ways, as there are a multitude of competing voices and arguments in the world of feminist criticism.

To determine whether or not Isabela is a feminist character (she cannot be a feminist protagonist since this is not her story) I think we have to look at the milieu she is placed in.  How is Isabela defined?  Can Isabela define herself and does she attempt to?  I'd like to look at Isabela as what Kristeva called the subject-in-process; I do think Isabela fits this categorization.  The world she lives in attempts to define her: wh-re, sl-t, thief.  Other characters reinforce this; Aveline calls her a wh-ore; Fenris calls her a thief.  Does Isabela attempt to define herself and is she successful?  Isabela says she doesn't care what people call her.  Her actions show that she is loyal (not always a thief, not always a sl-t).  She chooses who she goes to bed with (she will not go to bed with Castillon's right-hand man; she will also not go to bed with Emil de Launcet).  She will go to bed with Zevran even if in a relationship with Hawke but will stand down if Hawke asks her to.

Isabela attempts to define herself in a world that makes it impossible for her to do so.  Isabela's milieu stamps her with a variety of labels; meanwhile, Isablea herself struggles against this. 

Is Isabela a feminist figure; I say, yes, she is.

shotgun-shepard wrote... 

So how does our head-canon affect our reading of her and to what extent? 

 

Video games and RPGs in particular hand a significant amount of narrative power to the reader/player.  Isabela's character, however, is firmly written; her personality and motives do not change regardless of the decisions the player makes.  The player can manipulate Hawke so that Isabela either realizes her mistakes and returns at the end of Act 2 or chooses to strike out on her own and never return.  Isabela herself is NEVER altered though; Hawke can either befriend (or romance) her, earning her love and loyalty, or remain disinterested.  

"Head-canon" stands apart from anything is written in-game; so in that sense, Isabela can be manipulated by the player infinitesimally.  She is still a feminist character; the world that defines or attempts to define her has simply become incredibly powerful.  (Ultimate instance of reader response)


shotgun-shepard wrote...  

And what are everyone's reasons for using a particular gender when romancing her, how does this affect the reading, if at all?


I've never fully romanced Isabela; I've let one M!Hawke sleep with her before moving on to Anders.  Head-canon: Lachlan Hawke was good friends with Isabela and enjoyed flirting with her.  He was also confused and frustrated about Anders.  He slept with prostitutes at the Blooming Rose, too.  His friendship and (non-romantic) love for Isabela remained strong afterward.  Isabela is at 100% friendship and he's taken her on Legacy quest after the game finished.  They are good buddies.  

I tried to do a FemHawke x Isabela playthrough but got bored.  This has nothing to do with Isabela's character and more to do with the fact that I'm a straight woman who vastly prefer m/m romances ;)

#6653
hoorayforicecream

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motomotogirl wrote...

Isabela herself is NEVER altered though; Hawke can either befriend (or romance) her, earning her love and loyalty, or remain disinterested. 


I may be misreading what you mean by this, but I think you are wrong.

She changes pretty heftily over the course of the game. Act 1 Isabela is potentially very different from Act 3 Isabela. If Hawke rivals her, she feels much better about doing the right thing at her 100% questioning beliefs in Act 3. She feels good that she did something to avenge all the wrongs Castillon had perpetrated. She's genuinely changed, and clearly no longer as selfish as she was at the start. If Hawke become her friend, she finds someone she genuinely cares for and values, more than she's had before, and it's evident through the fact that Hawke's the only person she asks to join her crew.

Even her relationships with the other characters change - she starts off sniping and vicious with Aveline, but they both become close friends by act 3, where the barbs they trade are really softened.

She grows and changes noticeably and organically over the course of the game, and that's one of the reasons I love her as a character.

#6654
CuriousArtemis

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hoorayforicecream wrote...

She grows and changes noticeably and organically over the course of the game, and that's one of the reasons I love her as a character.


I absolutely did NOT mean to imply that her character does not exhibit growth.  Remember I did say that she, along with all the Companions, are "deep" ... my fault for not defining "deep" though :)

What I meant was that the player does NOT alter Isabela's fundamental character.  S/He does not control her personality.  You'll note that part of my post was in response to the question, does the player's head-canon affect one's reading of Isabela, etc.

#6655
Jedi Master of Orion

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You know I hadn't actually realized how much of a difference there is between make and female Isabella romances. I just assumed that what she says to males was the rivalry response. That's actually kind of cool. The later scenes are still the same though aren't they? Although the Mark of the Assassin dialogue is interesting because she seems to have both jealous and non jealous response to Talis over the course of the story. And it's not like she usually had a problem with "sharing."

I also had a Funny Female Hawke friendship romance with Isabella, and I also thought they seemed just about perfect for each-other. I don't think I realized just how good they were together until I tried one of the other versions of the romances in the game to compare.

For myself, I kind of decided beforehand that Isabella was probably the one for my female Hawke as I was formulating her character in my head. And once got to playing, it just so happened to work out perfectly for them.

#6656
shotgun-shepard

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So since I was already in 'writing about Dragon Age' mode, I decided to finally write my story about Marian and the farmer incident. I've put it up on google documents and if anyone is interested in proof-reading and giving some feedback before I put it on fanfiction, that would be lovely. It does of course star our favourite dusky pirate towards the end.

I haven't written fan-fiction in a very long time and this is my first piece about Dragon Age!

#6657
hoorayforicecream

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I'm interested!

#6658
shotgun-shepard

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Thanks, I've pm'd you the link!

#6659
hoorayforicecream

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Just a bit of art dumpage.

The illustrious whykikyouwhy has produced some fantastic comics, some of which we collaborated on:

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http://www.tumblr.co...azj36D9l1r64vl3

Also, some art from a collaboration I'm doing with the esteemed LiquidGrape

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Cheers.

#6660
shotgun-shepard

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Ok so here is the link to my fanfiction:

docs.google.com/document/d/1lVRwTRO0ki5qOzdjYcDsA8259P884UiVdFffv2neSG4/edit

Feedback is always appreciated, just leave a comment here or drop me a pm!
It's rated R for girly fun and ARRRGH for pirates. Posted Image

And if you can think of a suitable title, you will win a batch of interent cookies.


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and maybe I'll attempt one of these for you. I had to prove that my theory of Marian looking great in a tux was completely true...

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Isabela would approve methinks.

#6661
TobiTobsen

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shotgun-shepard wrote...

Ok so here is the link to my fanfiction:

docs.google.com/document/d/1lVRwTRO0ki5qOzdjYcDsA8259P884UiVdFffv2neSG4/edit

Feedback is always appreciated, just leave a comment here or drop me a pm!
It's rated R for girly fun and ARRRGH for pirates. Posted Image


Ha! I love that story! I could actually see it happening like this :happy:

#6662
DarkAmaranth1966

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Izzy, I knew you were good, but just how did you get there (this is the inaccessible upstairs courtyard of the DuPuis house) and somehow Isabella got there mid battle. She teleported back to me as i started down the stairs, but that is some serious stealth or lock picking or whatever to manage to go through solid walls to a place no one can go LOL.

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#6663
shotgun-shepard

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Hmm, once when a battle finished, Isabela was in the middle of one of her forward flips and she landed on top of Hawke. It was glorious...

#6664
The Librarian

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The only female character whom I can romance in DA2. I really love the romance with her.
She is funny, strong minded, fierce and knows how to handle... well almost every thing xD
All my m!Hawkes always goes for her just as all my f!Hawkes goes for Fenris.

In my eyes there is only two possible romance options in DA2. Our lovely Isabela and Fenris.

#6665
DarkAmaranth1966

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I agree Librarian. Izzy is cool, just depends on my Hawke if it's her or Fenris.

#6666
Nyxia

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Side-way glance for ya guys. Hope this is not posted yet. :?

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#6667
Burnouts3s3

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I don't like Isabela. She does something rather selfish, runs away and betrays Hawke and comes back with "No Big Deal".

I like the Qunari, and the treatment they had in Kirkwall as sad. But Isabela fanned the flames and caused the eventual power vacuum with Viscount Dumar's death. Worst of all, she doesn't get comeuppance for her crimes; she simply escapes with the Tome.

#6668
DarkAmaranth1966

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Or she brings it back and, gives you the choice of dueling the Arishok, or giving her to him. The only time she runs and does not come back is if her friendship/rivalry is too close to the middle.

#6669
danteliveson

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Nyxia wrote...

Side-way glance for ya guys. Hope this is not posted yet. :?

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This is beautiful.

#6670
TheGunslinger

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So, uh, how do I join the fan club? :)

#6671
whykikyouwhy

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TheGunslinger wrote...

So, uh, how do I join the fan club? :)


If you mean the cult fan club of Isabela, I believe it's as simple as posting your praise, love, comments, questions, musings, etc. ^_^

If you mean the fan club of hoorayforicecream's wonderful fanfic, I don't know that there is any official group. Though maybe there should be. Which would then mean there'd have to be membership cards/badges and secret decoder rings. 

#6672
hoorayforicecream

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whykikyouwhy wrote...

TheGunslinger wrote...

So, uh, how do I join the fan club? :)


If you mean the cult fan club of Isabela, I believe it's as simple as posting your praise, love, comments, questions, musings, etc. ^_^

If you mean the fan club of hoorayforicecream's wonderful fanfic, I don't know that there is any official group. Though maybe there should be. Which would then mean there'd have to be membership cards/badges and secret decoder rings. 


I do have a pre-reader group, but the discussions there only happen occasionally when I have something new to post.

#6673
Master Shiori

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Nyxia wrote...

Side-way glance for ya guys. Hope this is not posted yet. :?

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I love it!! :wub:

#6674
DiscoDarth

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Nyxia wrote...

Side-way glance for ya guys. Hope this is not posted yet. :?

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Its beautiful! 1600x1200 anyone!?:wizard:

#6675
JoeLaTurkey

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Ten days since the last post? :?

Don't let the discussion die!

Also, here's a new caption


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