150 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

lumiki, what the **** are you talking about?

im lossing brain cells here.......

is it really that hard to answer simple question.

In ME lore, where is the "bullet" (ammo) material comming from?

Modifié par Lumikki, 29 octobre 2010 - 02:22 .

[Oblarg]

Lumikki wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

lumiki, what the **** are you talking about?

im lossing brain cells here.......

is it really that hard to answer simple question.

In ME lore where is the "bullet" (ammo) material comming from?

I already answered that, a while ago.  You would already know the answer, too, if you bothered to read the codex before pretending to know the lore.

[Oblarg]

Christ, these boards are broken today.

Modifié par Oblarg, 29 octobre 2010 - 02:21 .

[Razor_Zeng]

Severyx wrote...



Problem is, soldiers on the battlefield can't wait for a 'cooldown'.
They need to keep using their gun. That is the main reason why thermal
clips were integrated into weapon designs. The codex mentions that it
takes less than a second to swap out a clip compared to the time it
takes to cool down an overheated weapon, which is much longer. This is
very much the case.

A well trained Soldier isn't going to
be firing their gun long enough to let it over heat. They will fire in
burst mode (either automatic burst or self controlled burst) rather then
full auto. Anyone that fires their gun in full auto deserves an
overheating gun. My guns in ME1 only over heated when I added things
like exploding ammo mods to them (and only to the sniper). I'm not a
well trained soldier, or soldier at all in fact, but even I can figure out "Oh
my gun overheats, better not let that happen!".

Severyx wrote...



Now we get to ME2 gameplay, where the thermal clip idea had a novel
start, but was poorly executed. They put 'intensifying the combat
system' over lore, so it doesn't sit well with a lot of people. What
should happen is when the gun is not being fired, the 'shots before clip
ejection' should slowly increase up until a general cap for
simplicity's sake. If you use up all those shots, a clip gets ejected
like normal. When you run out of clips? You have to wait for the
cooldown ala ME1.

/thread

I agree that the thermal clips were a nice idea and poorly executed as you say. As

kalle90 wrote...

There was a video about the system I'd want in some other thread. Basically you have 1 clip in weapon and 3 spare clips. The clips heat up when you shoot and you have to switch them for cool ones. The clips cool down when not in use.

Would also get rid of the stupid system where the clips aren't universal as the codex tells us they are. You could have a little diagram next to your current gun showing how the other clips are going. Blue f they are cool and ready to use, red if they are overheated. If all three are red and the one in your gun is overheated you are in a pickle.

[Lumikki]

Oblarg wrote...

I already answered that, a while ago.  You would already know the answer, too, if you bothered to read the codex before pretending to know the lore.

Sorry, my fault, I missed you answer.

Okey your sayed solid metal material inside the weapon and the "bullet" (ammo) is small like grain of sand.

Now weapon has size, so if you shoot 1000 "bullet", that means 1000 grain of sand. You agree?

Also in physical facts as weapon "bullet" is that damage done to target by material impact is directly related SIZE (amount of material) of the "bullet". Meaning "bullet" weight or speed has very little to do with tha amount of damage done.

Think about that, there is direct conflict in lore.

Modifié par Lumikki, 29 octobre 2010 - 02:33 .

[Oblarg]

Lumikki wrote...

Oblarg wrote...

I already answered that, a while ago.  You would already know the answer, too, if you bothered to read the codex before pretending to know the lore.

Sorry, my fault, I missed you answer.

Okey your sayed solid metal material inside the weapon and the "bullet" (ammo) is small like grain of sand.

Now weapon has size so if you shoot 1000 "bullet", that means 1000 grain of sand. You agree?

Also in physical facts as weapon "bullet" is that damage done to target by material impact is directly realted SIZE of the "bullet". Meaning "bullet" weight or speed has very little to do with tha amount of damage done.

Think about that, there is direct conflict in lore.

No, you're just an idiot.

Actually, it's not that you're an idiot so much as you're trying to argue about lore when you haven't read the lore.  I'm not even going to both arguing with you - you can go read the codex yourself.

This is the ME2 version, unfortunately, so it does include the thermal clip retcon:

http://masseffect.wi...y_Codex_Entries

Modifié par Oblarg, 29 octobre 2010 - 02:36 .

[Lumikki]

Oblarg wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Think about that, there is direct conflict in lore.

No, you're just an idiot.

Actually, it's not that you're an idiot so much as you're trying to argue about lore when you haven't read the lore.  I'm not even going to both arguing with you - you can go read the codex yourself.

http://masseffect.wi...y_Codex_Entries

I HAVE READ IT. Also please don't do direct insult.

You are missing the point. I'm arguing that ME weapon lore in ME related what I talked is agaist ANY reality, it has no logic at all. It's beaking physical laws as we know it. Basicly sayed ME weapon lore it's pure MAGIC, not science fiction with logical explanation what actually could be possibble.

Modifié par Lumikki, 29 octobre 2010 - 02:39 .

[Epic777]

I will be bring those videos just give a little time

[Oblarg]

Lumikki wrote...
I HAVE READ IT. Also plese don't do direct insult.

You are missing the point. I'm arguing that ME weapon lore in ME related what I talked is agaist ANY reality, it has no logic at all. It's beaking physical laws as we know it. Basicly sayed ME weapon lore it's pure MAGIC, not science fiction with logical explanation what actually could be possibble.

If you have read it, why did you ask the question in the first place?  To be a nuisance?

I'm a physics major, and I can tell you right now that a small projectile moving fast enough can impact just as much force as a large projectile moving slowly.

We're getting off-track, though - you've still yet to justify why a standard ammo system is an innately better system than the original overheat system.

Modifié par Oblarg, 29 octobre 2010 - 02:41 .

[Getorex]

Lumikki wrote...

Oblarg wrote...

I already answered that, a while ago.  You would already know the answer, too, if you bothered to read the codex before pretending to know the lore.

Sorry, my fault, I missed you answer.

Okey your sayed solid metal material inside the weapon and the "bullet" (ammo) is small like grain of sand.

Now weapon has size, so if you shoot 1000 "bullet", that means 1000 grain of sand. You agree?

Also in physical facts as weapon "bullet" is that damage done to target by material impact is directly related SIZE (amount of material) of the "bullet". Meaning "bullet" weight or speed has very little to do with tha amount of damage done.

Think about that, there is direct conflict in lore.

You fire a grain of sand at 10,000 mph and it will seriously damage a space station (today). Turn it into a plasma and you are firing a ball of almost pure heat. A "cold plasma" is generally around 1000 degrees C. That's a COLD plasma. A hot one can be orders of magnitude higher. Your little grain of sand could be fired at high speed and have a temp of, say, 50,000 degrees C (the writers don't indicate this level of detail as far as I know - they just say "plasma").

As for bullets, the weight has a LOT to do with the damage done. The heavier the bullet, the more kinetic energy it carries into the target. A lighter bullet may not penetrate armor but from the same weapon firing a heavier bullet, it may penetrate that armor. The only difference being the weight of the bullet.

[Pocketgb]

I'm just gonna go ahead and respond to this portion:

Rahzar wrote...
What should be changed...

Different guns should have different reload times. It can be used as another tool for the dev's to further balance weapons.

[Getorex]

Pocketgb wrote...

I'm just gonna go ahead and respond to this portion:

Rahzar wrote...
What should be changed...

Different guns should have different reload times. It can be used as another tool for the dev's to further balance weapons.

Why balance them at all? Why should a pistol have any balance at all with an AR or shotgun? Why should they equal out when, in reality, they do not in any sense balance out? Why do that rather than make weapons use and choice part of what gets you killed or allows you to survive? It should matter.

If you take a pistol into a submachine gun fight, you are toast. Period. You take submachine guns into an AR fight, you are likely going to lose (unless it is all close quarters where you have a better chance).

Carry a sniper rifle against a number of medium range enemies with ARs and you will be dead or running for your life in short order. There's no balance.

Modifié par Getorex, 29 octobre 2010 - 02:50 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Lumikki wrote...

Oblarg wrote...

I already answered that, a while ago.  You would already know the answer, too, if you bothered to read the codex before pretending to know the lore.

Sorry, my fault, I missed you answer.

Okey your sayed solid metal material inside the weapon and the "bullet" (ammo) is small like grain of sand.

Now weapon has size, so if you shoot 1000 "bullet", that means 1000 grain of sand. You agree?

Also in physical facts as weapon "bullet" is that damage done to target by material impact is directly related SIZE (amount of material) of the "bullet". Meaning "bullet" weight or speed has very little to do with tha amount of damage done.

Think about that, there is direct conflict in lore.

do you evne know what the heck you are talking about. and i dont mean by reading the codex or knowing the lore. this is a general question.....

do you know what your talking about?

[The Spamming Troll]

Getorex wrote...

Pocketgb wrote...

I'm just gonna go ahead and respond to this portion:

Rahzar wrote...
What should be changed...

Different guns should have different reload times. It can be used as another tool for the dev's to further balance weapons.

Why balance them at all? Why should a pistol have any balance at all with an AR or shotgun? Why should they equal out when, in reality, they do not in any sense balance out? Why do that rather than make weapons use and choice part of what gets you killed or allows you to survive? It should matter.

i agree. i hate when people bring up a balanceing issue. its a pathetic attempted at defended your idea when you have no other real ideas to offer.

is ME1 balanced? is ME2 balanced?balance is just a word you use when your stuck against a wall. and it wont work on me.

so let me ask you who say it wouldnt be balanced, what exactly wouldnt be balanced?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 29 octobre 2010 - 02:51 .

[Epic777]

Oblarg wrote...

Christ, these boards are broken today.

I tried, I tried.....

[Lumikki]

Getorex wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Oblarg wrote...

I already answered that, a while ago.  You would already know the answer, too, if you bothered to read the codex before pretending to know the lore.

Sorry, my fault, I missed you answer.

Okey your sayed solid metal material inside the weapon and the "bullet" (ammo) is small like grain of sand.

Now weapon has size, so if you shoot 1000 "bullet", that means 1000 grain of sand. You agree?

Also in physical facts as weapon "bullet" is that damage done to target by material impact is directly related SIZE (amount of material) of the "bullet". Meaning "bullet" weight or speed has very little to do with tha amount of damage done.

Think about that, there is direct conflict in lore.

You fire a grain of sand at 10,000 mph and it will seriously damage a space station (today). Turn it into a plasma and you are firing a ball of almost pure heat. A "cold plasma" is generally around 1000 degrees C. That's a COLD plasma. A hot one can be orders of magnitude higher. Your little grain of sand could be fired at high speed and have a temp of, say, 50,000 degrees C (the writers don't indicate this level of detail as far as I know - they just say "plasma").

As for bullets, the weight has a LOT to do with the damage done. The heavier the bullet, the more kinetic energy it carries into the target. A lighter bullet may not penetrate armor but from the same weapon firing a heavier bullet, it may penetrate that armor. The only difference being the weight of the bullet.

Nope, that's not how it works.

If you increase speed you can increase energy, but because you bullet is (hard) metal, it only means it go trough the target easyer. Point of bullets aren't go trough , but bullet should shatter from impact so that it cause more damage inside the target. How much damage it does, is realted how big area it's affecting in human (target). That is realted size of the impact, what is related size of the bullet.

This also means more speed in bullets means more soften the bullet material needs to be, so that it shatters, other ways it creates just hole. Think about it, harder material go trough easyer other harder materials. Those are physical laws.

Modifié par Lumikki, 29 octobre 2010 - 02:52 .

[The Spamming Troll]

so why arent bullets the size of beachballs?

....well, i suppose if those are physical laws then gees your right!


except that your not.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 29 octobre 2010 - 02:54 .

[Oblarg]

Lumikki wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Oblarg wrote...

I already answered that, a while ago.  You would already know the answer, too, if you bothered to read the codex before pretending to know the lore.

Sorry, my fault, I missed you answer.

Okey your sayed solid metal material inside the weapon and the "bullet" (ammo) is small like grain of sand.

Now weapon has size, so if you shoot 1000 "bullet", that means 1000 grain of sand. You agree?

Also in physical facts as weapon "bullet" is that damage done to target by material impact is directly related SIZE (amount of material) of the "bullet". Meaning "bullet" weight or speed has very little to do with tha amount of damage done.

Think about that, there is direct conflict in lore.

You fire a grain of sand at 10,000 mph and it will seriously damage a space station (today). Turn it into a plasma and you are firing a ball of almost pure heat. A "cold plasma" is generally around 1000 degrees C. That's a COLD plasma. A hot one can be orders of magnitude higher. Your little grain of sand could be fired at high speed and have a temp of, say, 50,000 degrees C (the writers don't indicate this level of detail as far as I know - they just say "plasma").

As for bullets, the weight has a LOT to do with the damage done. The heavier the bullet, the more kinetic energy it carries into the target. A lighter bullet may not penetrate armor but from the same weapon firing a heavier bullet, it may penetrate that armor. The only difference being the weight of the bullet.

Nope, that's not how it works.

If you increase speed you can increase energy, but because you bullet is (hard) metal, it only means it go trough the taget easyer. Point of bullets aren't go trough , but bullet should shatter from impact so that it cause more damage inside the target. How much damage it does, is realted how big area it's affecting in human (target). That is realted size of the impact, what is related size of the bullet.

This also means more speed in bullets means more soften the bullet material need to be. Think about it, harder material go trough easyer other harder materials. Those are physical laws.

You're assuming that you know how these future materials work.  If you can super-cool your grain of sand into a bose-einstein condensate before shooting it out of a gun barrel, who's to say you can't make it out of some material which imparts all of its kinetic energy into the target?  And regardless, if you poke a hole in someone, regardless of the size of the hole, it's not going to be good for the person on the receiving end.

This is all completely irrelevant, though - they retconned the lore, yes, but that wouldn't matter if it had been for a large benefit to the quality of gameplay.  Unfortunately, it was not - all the new system added was the need to look around for ammo in the middle of your mission.  You may find that fun, but I find it tedious and bad game design.

[Lumikki]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

so why arent bullets the size of beachballs?

In real life?

Because it's not need to kill human and it takes alot of energy to get heavy big object to fly far. Also it would make the weapon big.

[The Spamming Troll]

its also irrelevant because 1 shotgun blast to an enemies face simply WONT kill them. so who cares about physics at all?

the ladies love big weapons. i want a beachball gun in ME3.

i want a beach ball gun for a LI in ME3!!!

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 29 octobre 2010 - 02:58 .

[Getorex]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Pocketgb wrote...

I'm just gonna go ahead and respond to this portion:

Rahzar wrote...
What should be changed...

Different guns should have different reload times. It can be used as another tool for the dev's to further balance weapons.

Why balance them at all? Why should a pistol have any balance at all with an AR or shotgun? Why should they equal out when, in reality, they do not in any sense balance out? Why do that rather than make weapons use and choice part of what gets you killed or allows you to survive? It should matter.

i agree. i hate when people bring up a balanceing issue. its a pathetic attempted at defended your idea when you have no other real ideas to offer.

is ME1 balanced? is ME2 balanced?balance is just a word you use when your stuck against a wall. and it wont work on me.

so let me ask you, what exactly wouldnt be balanced?

A pistol wielder cannot balance against an AR wielder. Can't happen. Your pistol lacks power, lacks range. It is inherently unbalanced vs an AR. A shotgun doesn't balance against an AR very well either. It has benefits at close range and benefits in fast-moving close-quarter situations (you don't have to aim very much, just point it in the general direction of your target and pull the trigger - there's a good chance that part of your charge will hit what you wanted it to hit).

A sniper generally has to operate at range and from cover. Otherwise they can quickly be overrun and overwhelmed by those with ARs who can fire as fast as they pull the trigger. There's lots of ways for the weapons to be unbalanced and no reason to go out of your way (as a developer) to make it "fair" by balancing them as if they are all interchangeable. They are not.

In a melee situation, your sniper rifle is a major looser. Your SMG becomes something of a stronger suit to play. That sort of thing. Just because player A likes the shotguns doesn't mean that he should be able to fairly (with balance) take on a bunch of guys with ARs in any situation.

[Pocketgb]

Getorex wrote...
Why balance them at all?

Because it's a video game.

I'll be able to write more but work's a bit busy at the moment.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 29 octobre 2010 - 02:58 .

[Atmosfear3]

/insert obligatory Oh Look Its That Thread Again pic

[The Spamming Troll]

Getorex wrote...

A pistol wielder cannot balance against an AR wielder. Can't happen. Your pistol lacks power, lacks range. It is inherently unbalanced vs an AR. A shotgun doesn't balance against an AR very well either. It has benefits at close range and benefits in fast-moving close-quarter situations (you don't have to aim very much, just point it in the general direction of your target and pull the trigger - there's a good chance that part of your charge will hit what you wanted it to hit).

A sniper generally has to operate at range and from cover. Otherwise they can quickly be overrun and overwhelmed by those with ARs who can fire as fast as they pull the trigger. There's lots of ways for the weapons to be unbalanced and no reason to go out of your way (as a developer) to make it "fair" by balancing them as if they are all interchangeable. They are not.

In a melee situation, your sniper rifle is a major looser. Your SMG becomes something of a stronger suit to play. That sort of thing. Just because player A likes the shotguns doesn't mean that he should be able to fairly (with balance) take on a bunch of guys with ARs in any situation.

i agree.

[Lumikki]

Oblarg wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Nope, that's not how it works.

If you increase speed you can increase energy, but because you bullet is (hard) metal, it only means it go trough the taget easyer. Point of bullets aren't go trough , but bullet should shatter from impact so that it cause more damage inside the target. How much damage it does, is realted how big area it's affecting in human (target). That is realted size of the impact, what is related size of the bullet.

This also means more speed in bullets means more soften the bullet material need to be. Think about it, harder material go trough easyer other harder materials. Those are physical laws.

You're assuming that you know how these future materials work.  If you can super-cool your grain of sand into a bose-einstein condensate before shooting it out of a gun barrel, who's to say you can't make it out of some material which imparts all of its kinetic energy into the target?  And regardless, if you poke a hole in someone, regardless of the size of the hole, it's not going to be good for the person on the receiving end.

This is all completely irrelevant, though - they retconned the lore, yes, but that wouldn't matter if it had been for a large benefit to the quality of gameplay.  Unfortunately, it was not - all the new system added was the need to look around for ammo in the middle of your mission.  You may find that fun, but I find it tedious and bad game design.

Only way to get that impact do more damage than material (size) it self, is that the material it self will explode in impact.

It is relevant, because people here in forum use game lore as they point to support "realistic" cooling system as change of weapon system. When there is allready in weapons lore situation what does't make any sense.

How it's relevan to unlimited and limited ammo. If the clips also would include inside the clip some addional ammo material, then it would make also the weapons bullet situation more logical and realistic. My point is that unrealistic magical weapon system doesn't need any reality or logical system, if it's allready magic. So, when lore is failing anyway, so working weapon systems and gameplay feeling for player is more important, than try to make some magical lore working. Best of course would be that both would make sense in ME3, gameplay weapon system and lore.

Modifié par Lumikki, 29 octobre 2010 - 03:17 .