19 réponses à ce sujet

[elikal71]

Ya know outside of others, one of the fundamental things of DA which does not work for me is the good and evil dichotomy. There is defined good, which is The Maker (I always imagine Londo Mollari lol) and the Church, which may be somewhat corrupt, but the Ashes moment is quite convincing.

Maybe it is because I am a Pagan not a Christian that the entire idea of "given evil" seems... odd.  I can't imagine something like "evil in itself." It's an alien concept to me, and it breathes too much of Church and Christendom to me. The good Maker and the evil Demons... *sigh*

It's a bit like Klingons used to be mere bad guys in 1960ies and then became a noble warrior culture, so Orcs changed from Tolkienesque  "pure evil" to a warrior culture today, see Tamriel or Azeroth. I like this view more. In "The Belgariad" saga, Belgarath the mage, a sort of Gandalf, once is asked by the chosen champion of their side, his grandson Garion, if the other side was evil, and Belgarath answers "I rather think of it as 'we and they'". I find this "evil per se" aka Devils an odd and alien concept. People are evil because of their acts not by themselves. The idea of being who just "are evil" is as ridiculous as someone who is by definition "good". And why are always Dragons evil? I am so tired of that. Dragons are wondeful things and I rather side with them than with the prude God of Andraste! And I dont see that as evil. So the entire concept of the game does not work for me.



I always wondered, why was it bad of the Mages to want to enter the Golden City? The entire concept is so... forced to me, so outdated in it's concept of evil, I just can't feel it. I always thought ok, it would be shown its all a misunderstanding. If the Demons are the Old Gods, then is it not their right to conquer the world? I mean, they ARE old gods, they have the greater right, or not?


The evil I can believe is Palpatine, he wants the power. Or a crime lord who wants riches. Or a zealot who rots out non believers because of hubris of belief. But a devil who is evil by definition? An odd concept I find sorta old fashioned. I thought stories had passed beyond such things. It is my biggest gripe with Star Wars also. I just can't imagine there is a "dark side" that is per se evil. Evil is what you do, what you become as a result of biography. Like Loghain. I can understand that evil. But the entire Blight is as convincing to me as the kid story of the Boogyman. I guess you must have grown up with a Christian background to find that normal. *shrug*

Modifié par elikal71, 12 novembre 2009 - 07:16 .

[Jersey75639]

How much troll would a good troll troll if a good troll could troll trolls?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yawn. I am not a Christian. Not at all. And I am getting bored of your attempts to criticize it in ways that do not have any relationship to the game. I think nowbody here cares about your faith.

[Ub3r_]

you clearly have already misconceived views of the world when you think that "the Maker" is "good" the Maker merely is a dominant religion, it doesnt make it good, or evil, the myth of the Tevinter magi is just that, a story, it is the chantry's way of explaining "sin" and the darkspawn



It doesnt make them right



in the end, play to your beliefs, and see how it pans out, thats how i have in my first playthrough, and its so rewarding. I dont see the Chantry as right, but nor do i think its wrong, but i dont fault people following it if it gives them a sense of peace

[abominare]

Ok ill bite even though this does look trolliscious.



Were we playing the same game? This wasn't really a story about the blight. I'm sure perhaps the next game/games will be about the blight and their motives but you learn very little about them and they're really the backdrop to the whole story.



This is actually a story of how a nation crumbles and is rebuilt in the wake of impending doom. How men can seize the opportunity to do both good or evil in its wake. As well as a greater play on does the ends justify the means. You have political power plays all through the game of people trying to seize power in the chaos, youre given the choice many of times to make decisions on how youll meet the coming needs for an army and how you solve the smaller problems leading to the major one.



The blight is nothing bu motivation to propel the story a catalyst.

[abominare]

Oh and stop bragging about not being a christian its just as annoying as the people claiming to be christians no one cares about your faith or lack thereof in the real world this isnt highschool no one is going to be ooooh look hes a pagan how edgy and mysterious.

[pokemaughan]

Morality discussions are never fun, because rarely is their agreement.



So, I'll say this- don't worry about it. It's a fantasy world.

[Boeresmurf]

fantasy based...

and there is only one evil.



and its called: pigeons

[Flamin Jesus]

I'm so glad we can have another discussion about this, the other one wasn't quite ridiculous enough.



Am I the only one who sees something along that one dude's D2D preload complaints coming? 5 threads about the same subject in one hour, then a forum ragequit when nobody gives a damn? It started even more harmless than this.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Boeresmurf wrote...

fantasy based...
and there is only one evil.

and its called: pigeons

Clearly you and Shale are kindred spirits.  

Deny not the wisdom of Shale, for lo, he speaketh, and sayeth that pigeons are the great evil that hath brought corruption, Blight, and broccoli to Thedas.

[Shannara13]

I never got the impression that the Maker was "good" more that he was an ****.

[Flamin Jesus]

It! She!



GAH!



Angry statue!



"Oh then just don't listen to me, I'd like to see your face when the birds come."

[Kalfear]

Wait a sec, jhold the horses.

You posted here and TOR boards complaining that DA:O is to dark

And now you saying your a pegan and dont beleive in good or evil?

Sounds to me like someone is trolling for attention here!
Which is it? Are you a Carebear (your word not mine) or are you a pagen who doesnt beleive in good and evil!
The two at opposite ends of the spectrum!

[Krenmu]

If you don't believe in good/Evil..how on earth could a game be too "Dark" for you..I think we as a community have fed this troll too much..now we must kill it with Fire.

[Flamin Jesus]

Luckily, killing it with fire is a rather bright process, not dark at all.

[Krenmu]

Yep..they really see the light so to speak.

[Flamin Jesus]

It is a rather heartwarming process, and handwarming, legwarming...

[Krenmu]

Yep...I hate trolls..

[maikanix]

I don't think the Maker was defined as good. We know nothing about the Maker, except what the Chantry tells us - and you can't think they wouldn't be biased.



Also, it's a little ridiculous to say that people have nothing in them that makes them evil. It's called genetics. While that usually only implies a tendency towards antisocial, or destructive behaviors rather than a certainty of evil, it still exists.



but I always feed trolls...

[soteria]

How do you make a thread in which you say this:

...I must, for the first time in 25 years gaming, say that this game may not be morally right...

If you had left it just with the other thread, I wouldn't have really thought you were trolling, but making both of these... yeah. I mean, you said the game was so dark you had to quit, and then you're going to pretend to talk intelligently about morality in the game?