103 réponses à ce sujet

[ODST 3]

simple... Ruthless Shepard doesn't care enough to help Liara track down the Shadow Broker.

[Hyper_gateway]

ODST 3 wrote...

simple... Ruthless Shepard doesn't care enough to help Liara track down the Shadow Broker.

Straight to the point! Bravo!

If Shepard doesn't care other and get the job done (which is destorying Collector), why would he "waste" time to help out a former teammate? Do you think your rustless Shepard care because Liara save his/her life once?

As you say, rustless Shepard Prime goal is "get the jo done no matter what". Period

Btw, I do agree on adding renegade interrupts in future DLC which always make the story more interesting.

[Zulu_DFA]

RiouHotaru wrote...

And you could be a "renegade" by just...not taking the interrupts.

Nice. Maybe the renegades shouldn't play ME2 at all? Or maybe ME3 should contain only renegade interrupts and you could play paragon by just not taking them?

Hyper_gateway wrote...

ODST 3 wrote...

simple... Ruthless Shepard doesn't care enough to help Liara track down the Shadow Broker.

Straight to the point! Bravo!

If Shepard doesn't care other and get the job done (which is destorying Collector), why would he "waste" time to help out a former teammate? Do you think your rustless Shepard care because Liara save his/her life once?

As you say, rustless Shepard Prime goal is "get the jo done no matter what". Period

Btw, I do agree on adding renegade interrupts in future DLC which always make the story more interesting.

Ha! Here we go. Don't like it, don't play it! Thanks for the advice.

I realize that it must be "morally painful" for some people out there to know that such thing as "renegade" exits at all, but I think you guys have to deal with it. And there are games where the protagonist is strictly "paragon", and I have no problem with them. But the whole Mass Effect series is about the "choices", which must if not "bite you in the ass" at least provide "different avenues towards the same end". So put up with my b*tching about LotSB failure to do that, please.

And the Ruthless Shepard has all the reason he needs to assist Liara: Cerberus wants him to. Moreover, he has his suspicions about Liara actually working for TIM just like he is.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 29 octobre 2010 - 10:21 .

[Hyper_gateway]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And the Ruthless Shepard has all the reason he needs to assist Liara: Cerberus wants him to. Moreover, he has his suspicions about Liara actually working for TIM just like he is.

Hmm......I'm more curious about the reasons you say on assisting Liara. Why TIM wants him to do so?

So, to find out whether she work with TIM or not, what does it do with Shepard's main goal?

You may misunderstand what I meant, there's no way you know what LoTSB would like if you don'y play it. It is obvious that you aren't satisfy on the choices you can make in this DLC, right?

As I mentioned, more either side of interrupts will make the whole DLC more interesting.

Modifié par Hyper_gateway, 29 octobre 2010 - 10:30 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Hyper_gateway wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And the Ruthless Shepard has all the reason he needs to assist Liara: Cerberus wants him to. Moreover, he has his suspicions about Liara actually working for TIM just like he is.

Hmm......I'm more curious about the reasons you say on assisting Liara. Why TIM wants him to do so?

So, to find out whether she work with TIM or not, what does it do with Shepard's main goal?

1. It's implicitly obvious that LotSB is meant to be played post "suicide mission".

2. The Ruthless Shepard understands that he's just an engine of destruction, in the service of the real players (I mean, in-game "players"), which in ME2 is TIM. Hence, Shepard's goal is to complete the missions TIM dishes him out.

Hyper_gateway wrote...
You may misunderstand what I meant, there's no way you know what LoTSB would like if you don'y play it. It is obvious that you aren't satisfy on the choices you can make in this DLC, right?

As I mentioned, more either side of interrupts will make the whole DLC more interesting.

That's it.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 29 octobre 2010 - 10:39 .

[Jabarai]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

1. It's implicitly obvious that LotSB is meant to be played post "suicide mission".

Which, by the way, makes it irksome to accept the mission from TIM, as I thought I'd just given him the figurative finger and a resignation letter.
<_<

As for the topic, I'll have to agree that LotSB had more than enough situations where renegade interruptions would've seemed plausible and even obvious. And they simply weren't there. Now, even though I'm a strict Paragon, I do enjoy opting for renegade actions every now and then, as they sometimes do seem like the right thing to do. It's telling that I don't think I ever did that on LotSB.

Modifié par Jabarai, 29 octobre 2010 - 11:18 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

ODST 3 wrote...

simple... Ruthless Shepard doesn't care enough to help Liara track down the Shadow Broker.

Renegade Shepard isn't there to help Liara or chit-chat with her.

Renegade Shepard is there to remove an enemy that has proven he can be a pain in the ass when he wants to, and if your Shepard is pro-Cerberus. Remove one of TIM's greatest competitors.

[TMA LIVE]

I'm a paragon player, so I don't really care. But demanding to kill a helpless woman in a video game? Doesn't that make Vasir correct about you, and making your character nothing but a mindless sociopath? That doesn't sound like a direction they want to go. Even renegade Shepard says he had to do things because he had no choice.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 29 octobre 2010 - 07:01 .

[TMA LIVE]

Anyways, if they just made Shepard a mindless killer, or pure renegade, then he wouldn't even be helping Liara at all. You never would have given her the data, you would have never asked to help her out. Nor would anyone want to be your friend, besides backstabbers. There'd be no character development, because you're doing everything to not to talk to anyone, or make friends. You'd really refuse every mission unless being paid, or to survive death, which would lock you out of most of the content. Hell, you're already doing that just by selling and killing people. That doesn't make an interesting story or character at all. So they have to force Shepard to have a canon friendship with people, and force him to want to do stuff for the greater good. Not for the hell of it.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 29 octobre 2010 - 07:03 .

[ODST 3]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Ha! Here we go. Don't like it, don't play it! Thanks for the advice.

I realize that it must be "morally painful" for some people out there to know that such thing as "renegade" exits at all, but I think you guys have to deal with it. And there are games where the protagonist is strictly "paragon", and I have no problem with them. But the whole Mass Effect series is about the "choices", which must if not "bite you in the ass" at least provide "different avenues towards the same end". So put up with my b*tching about LotSB failure to do that, please.

And the Ruthless Shepard has all the reason he needs to assist Liara: Cerberus wants him to. Moreover, he has his suspicions about Liara actually working for TIM just like he is.

Ha. You can still play it with you're nice Shepards. I'm simply saying that if it bothers you to have no renegade interrupts, the story still works fine for your character if you just assume he's too much of a dick to help Liara out. Why would he after all? Efficiency comes first, no?

Modifié par ODST 3, 29 octobre 2010 - 07:08 .

[ODST 3]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

1. It's implicitly obvious that LotSB is meant to be played post "suicide mission".

2. The Ruthless Shepard understands that he's just an engine of destruction, in the service of the real players (I mean, in-game "players"), which in ME2 is TIM. Hence, Shepard's goal is to complete the missions TIM dishes him out.

1. Hardly necessary. I've tried it both ways and it works well.

2. Ruthless Shepard doesn't need to be TIM's b1tch. I actually prefer playing Renegade as my own man.

Modifié par ODST 3, 29 octobre 2010 - 07:15 .

[theriddlen]

Ruthless, idiotically paranoid Shepard is no more, instead we have cool badass Shepard. And i like it. I don't like killing people just to gain renegade points - i prefer just being awesome and rude.



Only thing i did not like about new Shep is that renegade acts like paragon when talking to TIM.

[Ryzaki]

Exactly Renegade is nobody's lacky. Least of all TIMs.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Some more renegade options would have been nice "Liara stop whining" maybe or interrupting Vasir's pre-death rant.

[TMA LIVE]

Renegade Shep when talking to random person:

"I'M THE BOSS! NO ONE TELLS ME WHAT TO DO!"

Renegade Shep when talking to TIM:

"Yes, I'll do it. You're so right. I trust you TIM. Anything you want."

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 29 octobre 2010 - 08:19 .

[Daewan]

You know, I really hate to do this, but ... I agree with Zulu. There were not enough Renegade options in LotSB. It was very heavily weighted towards Paragon responses, which was odd, considering the very excellent Renegade options you get to use with Liara when you first see her. I distinctly recall my Renegade telling Liara off when I first got to Ilium ("You did this to me!").

But now we're friends again? What? It would have been nice to have Liara apologize and beg for my help when I showed up with the SB data. That was the first missed opportunity that I saw.

With Vasir, it would have been nice to turn the tables on her - take an Asari dancer hostage in exchange for her Human one. Two can play at that game. That would have been efficient and Renegade (and funny, if well written). That would have made a much better Spectre standoff, and given an option for yet another Renegade line when you toss the hostage aside and go after Vasir.

I also hated the fact that Vasir bragged about her job specialization like it made her unstoppable. Why was this annoying? Because I have the same damn job. It's so irritating when NPCs don't acknowledge things like that, especially in the midst of their insane rantings. Vasir, I know full well what a Vanguard can do. So does everyone left on Torfan. Owait! There's no one left on Torfan because I was there. I admit, it's worse in Dragon Age, but it's annoying everywhere. I would have loved a Renegade - or any, really - opportunity to respond to her smack talk at that point.

Similarly, it pissed me off to no end that Shepard just stood there while the Shadow Broker assesses your companions. There should have been an interrupt there. Especially if you were sleeping with the person in your party. Instead Liara gets to show off her bad self while Shepard stands around. "Urgh. I r tank. Hit me, not squishy blue mage." That was just ridiculous. Why wasn't there an option to insult the SB right back at that point? Or do something to reiterate your hero status instead of just taking it quietly?

I believe there was one other point where I wanted to make a Renegade comment, but now I can't remember where it was.

[Giggles_Manically]

I would not have minded an interrupt in Vasir's rant.

[Inquisitor Recon]

I don't know why even a renegade Shep would yell at Liara at that point when you first meet her in ME2, but there were indeed several opportunities where renegade moments would have been nice,

[Zulu_DFA]

TMA LIVE wrote...

I'm a paragon player, so I don't really care. But demanding to kill a helpless woman in a video game? Doesn't that make Vasir correct about you,

I kinda want to make Vasir correct about my Ruthless Shepard... only I also would have liked to kill her before she got to express her un-****ing-important opinion.

TMA LIVE wrote...
and making your character nothing but a mindless sociopath?

Nope. Sociopath is a person who hates other people. Ruthless Shepard does not hate people. He even saves them from time to time - when it's the mission. When it's not, then anything on his line of fire is fair game. It's "weapons free" ever since they made him a spectre!

Mindless is a person that does things without reason. Ruthless Shepard doesn't do anything without reason. He doesn't punch reporters, for example.

ODST 3 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Ha! Here we go. Don't like it, don't play it! Thanks for the advice.

I realize that it must be "morally painful" for some people out there to know that such thing as "renegade" exits at all, but I think you guys have to deal with it. And there are games where the protagonist is strictly "paragon", and I have no problem with them. But the whole Mass Effect series is about the "choices", which must if not "bite you in the ass" at least provide "different avenues towards the same end". So put up with my b*tching about LotSB failure to do that, please.

And the Ruthless Shepard has all the reason he needs to assist Liara: Cerberus wants him to. Moreover, he has his suspicions about Liara actually working for TIM just like he is.

Ha. You can still play it with you're nice Shepards. I'm simply saying that if it bothers you to have no renegade interrupts, the story still works fine for your character if you just assume he's too much of a dick to help Liara out. Why would he after all? Efficiency comes first, no?

Why do you ask the exact very question that got answered in the post you are quoting?

"Cerberus wants him to."

ODST 3 wrote...
2. Ruthless Shepard doesn't need to be TIM's b1tch. I actually prefer playing Renegade as my own man.

Kinda sounds your "own man" is sociopath, or psycho, or whatever. Man needs a gang to gun for .

Also, I can sense Cerberus hatred here.

You see, loyalty to Cerberus is not about being somebody's b*tch. It's about efficiency. One of the principles of efficiency is the division of labor. Everybody have to do what they do best. Shepard is best at killing things and getting the job done. TIM is best at thinking, manipulating and determining what job needs doing. Sounds like a perfect partnership to me.

[Inquisitor Recon]

I don't usually agree with Zulu, but if paragon Shepard can trust the geth, can trust the rachni, it is sort of crazy not to trust TIM.

[TheBlackBaron]

ReconTeam wrote...

I don't usually agree with Zulu, but if paragon Shepard can trust the geth, can trust the rachni, it is sort of crazy not to trust TIM.

Yes, but TIM supports humanity being as powerful as they can be and doesn't have a sob story to talk to Shepard about.

Cleary this makes him untrustworthy.

Anyways, I agree with the person up above that said Renegade Shepard - really, Shepard in general - should have been able to be more proactive while the SB was giving him a Hannibal Lecture. It's particularly silly since the rest of the game is littered with options for you to do that, like in Hock's vault, the Eclipse sergeant on Mirand's loyalty, the korgan spokesman on Mordin's loyalty, etc., etc.

But shooting the hostage through the arm to hit Vasir was Renegade enough. They're not going to let you unintentionally skip an entire bossfight - the only reason they let you do that with Saren was because that was basically just a teaser, the real bossfight being against Robo-Saren.

[Zulu_DFA]

TheBlackBaron wrote...
They're not going to let you unintentionally skip an entire bossfight...

What do you mean "unintentionally"?

The interrupts are intentional actions, "choices", which this game is supposed to be all about.

The content is still available, but there is an option to make a shortcut. What can be better than that?

[TheBlackBaron]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...
They're not going to let you unintentionally skip an entire bossfight...

What do you mean "unintentionally"?

The interrupts are intentional actions, "choices", which this game is supposed to be all about.

The content is still available, but there is an option to make a shortcut. What can be better than that?

Because there's no indication that using the interrupt is going to cause you to miss out on the entire fight.

You know the situations I mentioned above where Shepard was being proactive? In none of those did you totally skip the fight - they made them easier, sure, by weakening who you were fighting or reducing the number of enemies, but you still had to finish them off in regular gameplay.

People would expect the interrupt to weaken Vasir in that same vein - I would actually support the option to do that - but not to totally finish her off. As such, they'd have just unintentionally skipped the fight.

[Zulu_DFA]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...
They're not going to let you unintentionally skip an entire bossfight...

What do you mean "unintentionally"?

The interrupts are intentional actions, "choices", which this game is supposed to be all about.

The content is still available, but there is an option to make a shortcut. What can be better than that?

Because there's no indication that using the interrupt is going to cause you to miss out on the entire fight.

You know the situations I mentioned above where Shepard was being proactive? In none of those did you totally skip the fight - they made them easier, sure, by weakening who you were fighting or reducing the number of enemies, but you still had to finish them off in regular gameplay.

People would expect the interrupt to weaken Vasir in that same vein - I would actually support the option to do that - but not to totally finish her off. As such, they'd have just unintentionally skipped the fight.

Poor people! They just unintentionally made life easier for themselves! What a tough break!

Good thing they could always just reload the level, if they so much love the "pew-pew".

For the record: I love the "pew-pew" too, but the ME2's "pew-pew" in particuar is not appealing to my taste, in which, to my knowledge, I am not alone.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 29 octobre 2010 - 10:22 .