734 réponses à ce sujet

[ShrinkingFish]

ErichHartmann wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...So women soldiers aren't accepted now? O_o

Really?

Sure they're not a lot of them but they certainly are allowed if they pass the requirements.

True but everyone has the same body in DA (by race and gender of course) if we're going to use nudity as a measuring stick.

Are they allowed to fight on the front line?

Is there or is there not a large political conflict on whether or not to allow women to fight on the front lines? Serve in the military, sure. But serve in combat?

And you're taking the same body type thing a bit too seriously. I was making a joke.

Well, speaking as an Army combat veteran, women can't volunteer for direct combat duties but static front lines don't exist anymore. So they do see plenty of action, especially since some are gunners on supply convoys and have been needed on patrols (males searching a Muslim woman is out of the question).

I could provide plenty of historical examples too. World War II saw a very substantial number of female combatants in Eastern Europe.

/carry on

I'm not sure how we got pulled into modern warfare... but still. This was essentially my point. There are a few examples of a substantial number of women engaging in combat, and the highest ratio of enlisted women to men exists today, even though women serving on the front lines is still (irritatingly) a big issue. It is ridiculous that they can't volunteer for work on the front lines but often end up there anyways. But anyways.

My point was that historically, and especially when centered around the general historical equivilent to Dragon Age, women were such a small part of military service that, when compared to men, they were almost nonexistant. Not they they were nonexistant.

Essentially trying to put forth that women are much more likely to be warriors in the Dragon Age world than in medieval Europe or associated historical moments. And thusly that individuals would be much more likely to find armores that were cut esspecially for women combatants.

Modifié par ShrinkingFish, 29 octobre 2010 - 03:00 .

[Nadiasama]

Aermas wrote...

Mail (Chain, Scale, Splint, Ring) is forgiving to all the curves of the female figure, no need to have different molds, they form fit.
For plate they need to be custom made so they do need to accommodate the breast, this doesn't mean that each needs it's own armor cone though.

Thank you. <3

[upsettingshorts]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

My point was that historically, and especially when centered around the general historical equivilent to Dragon Age, women were such a small part of military service that, when compared to men, they were almost nonexistant. Not they they were nonexistant.

Quoted for emphasis.

They weren't nonexistent but they were effectively nonexistent.  They may have personally contributed a great deal to the outcome of a skirmish, battle, or even war in which they participated - but they had no impact on military technology such as armor, or tactics, because their presence simply wasn't significant enough to warrant it. 

Again just to bring it back on topic, that means that speculating on things like "female plate armor" is, outside of a few scant examples in history, completely open to interpretation because we don't have eons of real world evidence of what it looked like as we do with men.

[ShrinkingFish]

Jestina wrote...

Celts ran around naked? Where did you drag that myth from? Almost as bad as the Scots having woad in Braveheart.

The Celtic armies went into battle naked, clothed only in war paint and their own flesh. Myth nothin.

Of course they had cloths. Wore them in day to day life. But in battle, in war, they wore nothing. Thus, Boudica would likely have either worn nothing in battle... or her day to day cloths out of some sort of modesty that did not exist in a pre-christian culture.

But in either case she most certainly would not have worn armor as the Celts practiced no methods of creating it.

[Jestina]

Well it's not like we have a lot of historical records to go of off and much of what we do have is probably biased. As you get closer to the modern age though you more accurate records. There were quite a number of female snipers in WWII. Lyudmila Pavlichenko was one and she tallied up 309 confirmed kills.

[Aermas]

Nadiasama wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Mail (Chain, Scale, Splint, Ring) is forgiving to all the curves of the female figure, no need to have different molds, they form fit.
For plate they need to be custom made so they do need to accommodate the breast, this doesn't mean that each needs it's own armor cone though.

Thank you. <3

 *wink  Can't we just focus on armor & not all these other periphial issues

[Lord_Valandil]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Jestina wrote...

Celts ran around naked? Where did you drag that myth from? Almost as bad as the Scots having woad in Braveheart.

The Celtic armies went into battle naked, clothed only in war paint and their own flesh. Myth nothin.

Of course they had cloths. Wore them in day to day life. But in battle, in war, they wore nothing. Thus, Boudica would likely have either worn nothing in battle... or her day to day cloths out of some sort of modesty that did not exist in a pre-christian culture.

But in either case she most certainly would not have worn armor as the Celts practiced no methods of creating it.

QFT.
Some people should read their history books.

[ShrinkingFish]

Nadiasama wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Mail (Chain, Scale, Splint, Ring) is forgiving to all the curves of the female figure, no need to have different molds, they form fit.
For plate they need to be custom made so they do need to accommodate the breast, this doesn't mean that each needs it's own armor cone though.

Thank you. <3

This covers mail, certainly. But not molded leather armor. And Isabela would never wear mail anyways because its weight would encumber her fighting style.

[ShrinkingFish]

Jestina wrote...

Well it's not like we have a lot of historical records to go of off and much of what we do have is probably biased. As you get closer to the modern age though you more accurate records. There were quite a number of female snipers in WWII. Lyudmila Pavlichenko was one and she tallied up 309 confirmed kills.

Snipers in World War II have no historical bearing on the Dragon Age era.

[Jestina]

ShrinkingFish wrote...]
The Celtic armies went into battle naked, clothed only in war paint and their own flesh. Myth nothin.
Of course they had cloths. Wore them in day to day life. But in battle, in war, they wore nothing. Thus, Boudica would likely have either worn nothing in battle... or her day to day cloths out of some sort of modesty that did not exist in a pre-christian culture.
But in either case she most certainly would not have worn armor as the Celts practiced no methods of creating it.

That is pure myth. Celts could smith and those who could afford it did have armour. They were not primitives, far from it. But then again you hear some of the same myths about Vikings and they were an advanced culture as well.

[upsettingshorts]

Jestina wrote...

Well it's not like we have a lot of historical records to go of off and much of what we do have is probably biased. As you get closer to the modern age though you more accurate records. There were quite a number of female snipers in WWII. Lyudmila Pavlichenko was one and she tallied up 309 confirmed kills.

How many anonymous snipers participated in World War II? Tens of thousands.  Your citing of outliers does little to challenge my argument. Your claims of bias are unfounded - at least on the issue of the sex of the soldiers (there's plenty of it when it comes to numbers of forces involved for a host of reasons).

It's not sexism. Nor am I ignoring the examples of women who participated in warfare. Just recognizing that the numbers are stacked overwhelmingly in a certain way that precludes any reliable information on stuff like "what would purpose-built female plate armor look like?"

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 29 octobre 2010 - 03:08 .

[Aermas]

Jestina wrote...

Well it's not like we have a lot of historical records to go of off and much of what we do have is probably biased. As you get closer to the modern age though you more accurate records. There were quite a number of female snipers in WWII. Lyudmila Pavlichenko was one and she tallied up 309 confirmed kills.

No one wore plate in WWII this isn't relevant.

[ShrinkingFish]

Jestina wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...]
The Celtic armies went into battle naked, clothed only in war paint and their own flesh. Myth nothin.
Of course they had cloths. Wore them in day to day life. But in battle, in war, they wore nothing. Thus, Boudica would likely have either worn nothing in battle... or her day to day cloths out of some sort of modesty that did not exist in a pre-christian culture.
But in either case she most certainly would not have worn armor as the Celts practiced no methods of creating it.

That is pure myth. Celts could smith and those who could afford it did have armour. They were not primitives, far from it. But then again you hear some of the same myths about Vikings and they were an advanced culture as well.

I require proof of your claims. Citations needed.

[ErichHartmann]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Jestina wrote...

Well it's not like we have a lot of historical records to go of off and much of what we do have is probably biased. As you get closer to the modern age though you more accurate records. There were quite a number of female snipers in WWII. Lyudmila Pavlichenko was one and she tallied up 309 confirmed kills.

Snipers in World War II have no historical bearing on the Dragon Age era.

True which leads to me to argue none of our history should have any bearing in a fantasy world.  Been awhile since I have read any Dragonlance Novels, for example, but I do recall strong female characters. 

[Aermas]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Nadiasama wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Mail (Chain, Scale, Splint, Ring) is forgiving to all the curves of the female figure, no need to have different molds, they form fit.
For plate they need to be custom made so they do need to accommodate the breast, this doesn't mean that each needs it's own armor cone though.

Thank you. <3

This covers mail, certainly. But not molded leather armor. And Isabela would never wear mail anyways because its weight would encumber her fighting style.

Boiled leather has a wooden feel & can is molded like plate armor, soft leather is not armor so I'm not going to comment on that, as for Isabela I couldn't care less I'm talking about women in armor not a pantsless pirate.

[Nadiasama]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Nadiasama wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Mail (Chain, Scale, Splint, Ring) is forgiving to all the curves of the female figure, no need to have different molds, they form fit.
For plate they need to be custom made so they do need to accommodate the breast, this doesn't mean that each needs it's own armor cone though.

Thank you. <3

This covers mail, certainly. But not molded leather armor. And Isabela would never wear mail anyways because its weight would encumber her fighting style.

A leather tunic isn't molded which she could wear nor would it restrict any movement.

[Jestina]

Aermas wrote...

Jestina wrote...
Well it's not like we have a lot of historical records to go of off and much of what we do have is probably biased. As you get closer to the modern age though you more accurate records. There were quite a number of female snipers in WWII. Lyudmila Pavlichenko was one and she tallied up 309 confirmed kills.

No one wore plate in WWII this isn't relevant.

Not like any of us have historical armour lying abou the house. The paintings that do depict females of that period, they are wearing the same as males. I do have a police ballistic vest though and it doesn't display cleavage...flat except inside where there is more cushioning around certain parts.

[Doyle41]

http://i186.photobuc...nmailBikini.jpg
It could work.

Modifié par Doyle41, 29 octobre 2010 - 03:22 .

[tmp7704]

Nadiasama wrote...

Have you seen what a typical plate of armor looks like?  It is not flat. It is rounded not hugging tight to the body and if boob notches are so much better at deflecting blows, why don't all armors have then in relife.

There isn't really single, universal design of plate armour that'd last across centuries, is there? So while it's not something that's present in every armour out there, some did sport such enhanced curvature though in form of a "unibreast", so to speak. Consider http://commons.wikim...Zbroja_1514.JPG  Why do you think the curve of chest bulge on this armour is quite sharper than male anatomy would otherwise require? I'd say that's because sharper angles do help to deflect the blows, as noted.

The very aricle you bring up shows more of such designs, and actually makes a point how this bulge could be used to accomodate woman's breasts. So in a way yes, "all armours" do make use of this concept, although obviously to different degree, and in different ways.

[Ryzaki]

...Though seriously would it really be that much of a deal for her to put on some booty shorts? Or tights? I don't want to have to turn her away because I'm not in the mood for ass shots.

Edit: Also when she is attacked and hit (and she will be) she better take more damage than my Hawke wearing actual armor.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 octobre 2010 - 03:16 .

[Lord_Valandil]

ShrinkingFish wrote...
I require proof of your claims. Citations needed.

We're gonna stay awake all night while waiting for the proof.

[ShrinkingFish]

Nadiasama wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Nadiasama wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Mail (Chain, Scale, Splint, Ring) is forgiving to all the curves of the female figure, no need to have different molds, they form fit.
For plate they need to be custom made so they do need to accommodate the breast, this doesn't mean that each needs it's own armor cone though.

Thank you. <3

This covers mail, certainly. But not molded leather armor. And Isabela would never wear mail anyways because its weight would encumber her fighting style.

A leather tunic isn't molded which she could wear nor would it restrict any movement.

An untempered and unmolded leather tunic also does not afford much protection, rating only slightly lower than a thick wool sweater. So what's the point?

[Saibh]

Why are we having this argument to begin with? Isabela doesn't wear armor, she wears clothes (with stats, I'm sure). With no pants. Now that's just plain silly.

Besides that, the initial issue raised is that BioWare promised to treat their female characters much the same as their male characters in terms of equipment. And why should they be treated different? We've already got unrealistic body proportions down pat. Some of us don't want Isabela's panties in every other shot of the game.

Honestly, don't think you think something as trivial as whether or not she's wearing small pants versus panties is something that shouldn't even be noticed? I mean, the instant we saw that trailer, one of the first comments was her pantslessness. Just give her some short shorts, jeez. I don't think we'd be seeing this sort of complaining if she did.

Modifié par Saibh, 29 octobre 2010 - 03:15 .

[ShrinkingFish]

ErichHartmann wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Jestina wrote...

Well it's not like we have a lot of historical records to go of off and much of what we do have is probably biased. As you get closer to the modern age though you more accurate records. There were quite a number of female snipers in WWII. Lyudmila Pavlichenko was one and she tallied up 309 confirmed kills.

Snipers in World War II have no historical bearing on the Dragon Age era.

True which leads to me to argue none of our history should have any bearing in a fantasy world.  Been awhile since I have read any Dragonlance Novels, for example, but I do recall strong female characters. 

I disagree completely. Certain historical moments do indeed have much bearing on this fantasy setting. Especially when it comes to tools and available technology, which armor falls under.

[Lord_Valandil]

Saibh wrote...

Why are we having this argument to begin with? Isabela doesn't wear armor, she wears clothes (with stats, I'm sure). With no pants. Now that's just plain silly.

Besides that, the initial issue raised is that BioWare promised to treat their female characters much the same as their male characters in terms of equipment. And why should they be treated different? We've already got unrealistic body proportions down pat. Some of us don't want Isabela's panties in every other shot of the game.

Honestly, don't think you think something as trivial as whether or not she's wearing small pants versus panties is something that shouldn't even be noticed? I mean, the instant we saw that trailer, one of the first comments was her pantslessness. Just give her some short shorts, jeez. I don't think we'd be seeing this sort of complaining if she did.

It really doesn't bother me that she's not wearing shorts. And you know me, it's not because I'm male or that sort of stuff.
Besides...we only need a confirmation from the devs, regarding the inventory, and if we can change our party outfits.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 29 octobre 2010 - 03:18 .