734 réponses à ce sujet

[ShrinkingFish]

Saibh wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

It might. Cloth bunched around or between her legs and hip joints could greatly impede her flexibility and movement if her fighting style relied even somewhat on the use of her legs/

And I'm sure she'll get hit harder and take more damage than your armored Hawke. I can almost promise that.

Which is why Olympic gymnasts often don't wear clothes. Because of how impeding they are.

Historically, that cloth didn't exist around the time period that DA is based. Additionally. The Olympics are a bad example, as originally they were all performed absolutely naked due to cloths being an encumbrance.

[RevengeofNewton]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

RevengeofNewton wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

RevengeofNewton wrote...
I'm not talking about intention, I'm actually going one step further and saying that there wasn't any sexism in that post at all. It is simply a misguided statement. You'll understand why I'm saying that if you look at the definition of sexism carefully.

She states such out of an assumption that the female characters are being purposefully objectified due to the observed impracticality of their armor while witnessing the same concepts at work on male characters and yet does not apply the very same logic to them simply because they are male.

That is sexist.

I disagree completely. There's a level of nuance you're missing. You and I both know that male bodies are not sexualized in the media as much as female bodies are. By missing this term in the equation, you're coming to an answer that she's being sexist. But when you add this term in, it's quite clear that she's not being sexist. Now she may be completely wrong about Bioware's intentions and her claim that Bioware is sexist, but there is no sexism behind her reasoning. It's simply flawed. You don't need to add extra controversy by accusing her of being sexist. 

At the same time you'll note that all the "fanfare" over Varric did not come from any "skimpiness" in his clothing.

You can disagree all you'd like. It does not make the point any less valid. Sexism is a two way street, women are just as capable of it as men. Especially when it comes to women.

Some of the most sexist statements I've ever heard have been by women when refering to other women. This is an example of this type of sexism.

You're point's lack of validity stems from the fact that her comment simply isn't sexist. I'm simply enlightening you on that. Now you can either argue or accept that her statement isn't sexist and move on,

And that's a great strawman by the way, but no one has said that sexism can't be done by women. It's completely irrelevent to the topic.

[Lord_Valandil]

Jestina wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...
Did you actually read this stuff?

If you just want to believe myths that's fine with me.

And this is the part where I realize we're talking to a wall.

[Kileyan]

I've got an idea. If you are so put upon and offended by an upskirt. Maybe you shouldn't zoom in close, slo mo and replay that game save over and over while adjusting the camera "just so".



It is something you would have to go out of your way to even notice:)

[ShrinkingFish]

Jestina wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...
Did you actually read this stuff?

If you just want to believe myths that's fine with me.

If you want to ignore the histocial context and time periods associated with human and cultural development that is fine with me.

[Aermas]

Ryzaki wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

www.mmofront.com/wp-content/gallery/vindictus/Vindictus5.JPG

Yea or nay?

The hilarity of that is I'd prefer it over Isabela's pantlessness. I just feel like I'm being mooned. So yes that would be preferable. Not more realistic but still...

You're not alone, I like her Plate & Maile. The skirt is well done & the right arm is exceptional

[Jestina]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Jestina wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...
Did you actually read this stuff?

If you just want to believe myths that's fine with me.

If you want to ignore the histocial context and time periods associated with human and cultural development that is fine with me.

You probably also think Vikings ran around with horns on their helmets.

[ShrinkingFish]

RevengeofNewton wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

RevengeofNewton wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

RevengeofNewton wrote...
I'm not talking about intention, I'm actually going one step further and saying that there wasn't any sexism in that post at all. It is simply a misguided statement. You'll understand why I'm saying that if you look at the definition of sexism carefully.

She states such out of an assumption that the female characters are being purposefully objectified due to the observed impracticality of their armor while witnessing the same concepts at work on male characters and yet does not apply the very same logic to them simply because they are male.

That is sexist.

I disagree completely. There's a level of nuance you're missing. You and I both know that male bodies are not sexualized in the media as much as female bodies are. By missing this term in the equation, you're coming to an answer that she's being sexist. But when you add this term in, it's quite clear that she's not being sexist. Now she may be completely wrong about Bioware's intentions and her claim that Bioware is sexist, but there is no sexism behind her reasoning. It's simply flawed. You don't need to add extra controversy by accusing her of being sexist. 

At the same time you'll note that all the "fanfare" over Varric did not come from any "skimpiness" in his clothing.

You can disagree all you'd like. It does not make the point any less valid. Sexism is a two way street, women are just as capable of it as men. Especially when it comes to women.

Some of the most sexist statements I've ever heard have been by women when refering to other women. This is an example of this type of sexism.

You're point's lack of validity stems from the fact that her comment simply isn't sexist. I'm simply enlightening you on that. Now you can either argue or accept that her statement isn't sexist and move on,

And that's a great strawman by the way, but no one has said that sexism can't be done by women. It's completely irrelevent to the topic.

She chose to judge women by a different standard than she judged the men. Alone and out of context it isn't sexist. But in context it is.

[RevengeofNewton]

Saibh wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Sabih would you say her lack of shorts is... upsetting?

... You can't make me laugh. This is a serious topic about serious panties.

My will is ironclad and resolute.

"I find your lack of shorts....disturbing."

[Lord_Valandil]

Kileyan wrote...

I've got an idea. If you are so put upon and offended by an upskirt. Maybe you shouldn't zoom in close, slo mo and replay that game save over and over while adjusting the camera "just so".

It is something you would have to go out of your way to even notice:)

I didn't even notice that Isabela didn't have shorts the first time I watched the trailer. Nor the second, or the third.
Until I entered the forums and saw all the people complaining.

[tmp7704]

Saibh wrote...

Which is why Olympic gymnasts often don't wear clothes. Because of how impeding they are.

Given the ancient Olympic gymnasts did in fact compete in the buff if i recall it right, i'd say the clothes in our modern times are more of mandatory modesty-related inconvenience than anything else. Don't they have regulations about length of tennis player skirts and such?

edit: dang, ninja'ed again. Thread moves way too fast, calling it a day

Modifié par tmp7704, 29 octobre 2010 - 03:36 .

[Lord_Valandil]

Jestina wrote...

You probably also think Vikings ran around with horns on their helmets.

That IS a myth.

[RevengeofNewton]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

RevengeofNewton wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

RevengeofNewton wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

RevengeofNewton wrote...
I'm not talking about intention, I'm actually going one step further and saying that there wasn't any sexism in that post at all. It is simply a misguided statement. You'll understand why I'm saying that if you look at the definition of sexism carefully.

She states such out of an assumption that the female characters are being purposefully objectified due to the observed impracticality of their armor while witnessing the same concepts at work on male characters and yet does not apply the very same logic to them simply because they are male.

That is sexist.

I disagree completely. There's a level of nuance you're missing. You and I both know that male bodies are not sexualized in the media as much as female bodies are. By missing this term in the equation, you're coming to an answer that she's being sexist. But when you add this term in, it's quite clear that she's not being sexist. Now she may be completely wrong about Bioware's intentions and her claim that Bioware is sexist, but there is no sexism behind her reasoning. It's simply flawed. You don't need to add extra controversy by accusing her of being sexist. 

At the same time you'll note that all the "fanfare" over Varric did not come from any "skimpiness" in his clothing.

You can disagree all you'd like. It does not make the point any less valid. Sexism is a two way street, women are just as capable of it as men. Especially when it comes to women.

Some of the most sexist statements I've ever heard have been by women when refering to other women. This is an example of this type of sexism.

You're point's lack of validity stems from the fact that her comment simply isn't sexist. I'm simply enlightening you on that. Now you can either argue or accept that her statement isn't sexist and move on,

And that's a great strawman by the way, but no one has said that sexism can't be done by women. It's completely irrelevent to the topic.

She chose to judge women by a different standard than she judged the men. Alone and out of context it isn't sexist. But in context it is.

Eh....no she didn't?

[ShrinkingFish]

Jestina wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Jestina wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...
Did you actually read this stuff?

If you just want to believe myths that's fine with me.

If you want to ignore the histocial context and time periods associated with human and cultural development that is fine with me.

You probably also think Vikings ran around with horns on their helmets.

And now you're trying to be insulting. Cute.

As long as we're being academic and centered on Norse culture... what is Beowulf? Tell me, as you understand it...

[ShrinkingFish]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

I've got an idea. If you are so put upon and offended by an upskirt. Maybe you shouldn't zoom in close, slo mo and replay that game save over and over while adjusting the camera "just so".

It is something you would have to go out of your way to even notice:)

I didn't even notice that Isabela didn't have shorts the first time I watched the trailer. Nor the second, or the third.
Until I entered the forums and saw all the people complaining.

Ditto.

Some people are just hyper sensative to this type of thing. Eyes always go straight to the crotch.

[Lord_Valandil]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

And now you're trying to be insulting. Cute.

As long as we're being academic and centered on Norse culture... what is Beowulf? Tell me, as you understand it...

Insults. Typical of people who have run out of arguments to support their claims.

[RevengeofNewton]

It was clear she was making a joking remark.

[upsettingshorts]

ShrinkingFish wrote...
And now you're trying to be insulting. Cute.

As long as we're being academic and centered on Norse culture... what is Beowulf? Tell me, as you understand it...

I don't know, but I suddenly have an overwhelming urge to invest in North Malden.

RevengeofNewton wrote...

It was clear she was making a joking remark.

Have you been following the context of that conversation?  That wasn't a joke.  It was mocking criticism.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 29 octobre 2010 - 03:38 .

[Saibh]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Historically, that cloth didn't exist around the time period that DA is based. Additionally. The Olympics are a bad example, as originally they were all performed absolutely naked due to cloths being an encumbrance.

You know what else isn't going to help in battle? Long hair. Loose cloth--like that hip rag she has. Dangly jewelry that can be grabbed onto. Any tied clothing like the corset thing she wears that could restrict breathing. Also, boots that high, from personal experience, do nothing to help you run or move around. Nothing else she wears is practical. Her lack of pants has nothing to do with practicality. Loose shorts are not going to restrict her movement. I'm sure we're not going to see male rogues run into battle with a similar outfit.

[Lord_Valandil]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

I've got an idea. If you are so put upon and offended by an upskirt. Maybe you shouldn't zoom in close, slo mo and replay that game save over and over while adjusting the camera "just so".

It is something you would have to go out of your way to even notice:)

I didn't even notice that Isabela didn't have shorts the first time I watched the trailer. Nor the second, or the third.
Until I entered the forums and saw all the people complaining.

Ditto.

Some people are just hyper sensative to this type of thing. Eyes always go straight to the crotch.

This.
And also, the fact that many people will pause the trailer every second just to catch every freaking detail.
And then have a reason to complain at the forums.

[ShrinkingFish]

Saibh wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Historically, that cloth didn't exist around the time period that DA is based. Additionally. The Olympics are a bad example, as originally they were all performed absolutely naked due to cloths being an encumbrance.

You know what else isn't going to help in battle? Long hair. Loose cloth--like that hip rag she has. Dangly jewelry that can be grabbed onto. Any tied clothing like the corset thing she wears that could restrict breathing. Also, boots that high, from personal experience, do nothing to help you run or move around. Nothing else she wears is practical. Her lack of pants has nothing to do with practicality. Loose shorts are not going to restrict her movement. I'm sure we're not going to see male rogues run into battle with a similar outfit.

I am so glad someone finally brought this up!

Good on ya! I approve.

[Nefario]

Some of the posters in this thread would do well to consider the difference between "sexualized" and "sexist".

There's certainly some sexualization of women happening in DA2. Large busts, cleavage, etc. It's a showcasing of idealized female secondary sexual characteristics. But by the same token, there's lots of men not wearing sleeves, showcasing their big muscular arms (and muscular development is generally, though not uniquely, a male secondary sexual characteristic). If you're willing to look closely, there's sexualization of both the female and male character models. People tend to overlook sexualized male figures (which is somewhat understandable, 'cause we're just not that sexy).

So if you want to accuse Bioware (or EA, or gaming in general, or whomever is relevant) of sexualizing the characters in their games, that's fine. There's a reasonable enough basis for such a claim. But accusing them of sexism is very different. Sexism is prejudicial and often enough hateful. And there's really not much evidence to justify that kind of accusation. Not here, anyways.

[Saibh]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

I've got an idea. If you are so put upon and offended by an upskirt. Maybe you shouldn't zoom in close, slo mo and replay that game save over and over while adjusting the camera "just so".

It is something you would have to go out of your way to even notice:)

I didn't even notice that Isabela didn't have shorts the first time I watched the trailer. Nor the second, or the third.
Until I entered the forums and saw all the people complaining.

And, yet, many more people noticed the first time they saw the trailer. Without slow-mo, adjusting light settings, capping every shot, or so on.

[Lord_Valandil]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...



I've got good news and bad news for you guys.



The good news: next week, we're going to talk about inventory and followers in detail in a podcast.

The bad news: it is not next week, yet.



So sit tight. I'll try to be comprehensive, or at least a reasonable facsimile thereof.

[ErichHartmann]

Another pic from that game I play (Vindictus).  Only wearing clothes though.

img248.imageshack.us/img248/4126/201010280000.jpg