734 réponses à ce sujet

[NKKKK]

Saibh wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

It's a good thing there aren't high heels in the middle ages then.

But there were (although not necessarily the modern Prada versions). And are, in Dragon Age. Leliana talks about them.

Is everything about sexism with you?

Modifié par NKKKK, 29 octobre 2010 - 04:11 .

[UberDuber]

I support no chainmail bikinis. Other Bikinis are okay I suppose.

[Saibh]

NKKKK wrote...

It's everything about sexism with you?

Because telling you that there are high heels in the middle ages and Dragon Age is definitely what I'd say when I pull out my soapbox. 

Also, I rarely need to mention sexism, and never accuse BioWare of being sexist. You, on the other hand, accuse me, and people like me, of saying so.

Modifié par Saibh, 29 octobre 2010 - 04:12 .

[UberDuber]

I also support NO more naked pictures of Alistair! There's too many of those.

[314es]

Beware mortals! Korean creativity virus are upon us.

Plate armored bikinis are the fashion of tomorrow!



"'Cause self beef protects more then an ugly old shield!"

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Saibh wrote...

Do you often shoot mercs in heels? If so, how many inches are the heels? Besides that, walking over grates or anything with gaps must be a pain, because anyone knows how easily they catch into them. Oh, and getting caught and tripping with them in dense jungle like areas, like Pragia (or, say, Par Vollen, in this case). Sinking in mud. I could go on.

/shrug I would if I could.

They only look to be about 2" tall and with a pretty solid footprint. I've climbed rocks in wedges and traversed many a subway vent grill without stumbling. I guess my feet work better with some elevation. But I see badass catsuit or belt-bra and go why oh why can that not be my wardrobe.
Also, the upgrades in ME2 imply that a lot of improvements are done on the body itself, so Jack might as well be made of carbon fiber. Which is another "sign me up."

Sorry ladies, I guess this is my betrayal.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 29 octobre 2010 - 04:25 .

[Saibh]

UberDuber wrote...

I also support NO more naked pictures of Alistair! There's too many of those.

Yeah, me too.

[NKKKK]

Saibh wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

It's everything about sexism with you?

Because telling you that there are high heels in the middle ages and Dragon Age is definitely what I'd say when I pull out my soapbox. 

Also, I rarely need to mention sexism, and never accuse BioWare of being sexist. You, on the other hand, accuse me, and people like me, of saying so.

You don't need to say anythig, but your complaints about this and the boobs are pretty obvious. I'm just saying don't look for sexism where there isn't any.

[slimgrin]

I mostly prefer practicality over style in this regard, or at least a compromise ( Liara, Leliana ) but accenting the feminine form is irresistible for artists, so I think sexy armor is here to stay. Players can always try and not focus on the offending body part.

Modifié par slimgrin, 29 octobre 2010 - 04:16 .

[mellifera]

NKKKK wrote...

Saibh wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

It's everything about sexism with you?

Because telling you that there are high heels in the middle ages and Dragon Age is definitely what I'd say when I pull out my soapbox. 

Also, I rarely need to mention sexism, and never accuse BioWare of being sexist. You, on the other hand, accuse me, and people like me, of saying so.

You don't need to say anythig, but your complaints about this and the boobs are pretty obvious. I'm just saying don't look for sexism where there isn't any.

Heh, you often don't have to look for it when it is right in your face. Whether or not you accept that people are saying sexist things is your deal, doesn't make them any less so

(Not that everything that has been said is sexist in this thread or elsewhere, but the whole "crazy hysterical woman seeing sexism errywhurr" trope is obnoxious when living in a culture where sexism is an acceptable norm is a real issue.)

Modifié par yukidama, 29 octobre 2010 - 04:23 .

[Saibh]

NKKKK wrote...

You don't need to say anythig, but your complaints about this and the boobs are pretty obvious. I'm just saying don't look for sexism where there isn't any.

Listen, I'm really sick of personal attacks from you. Stop it. God forbid I think that my female avatars should be average in body proportions. You want to talk about reading the thread? Read what I've actually said on the topic. My main concern with Isabela is a) I don't want to be flashed every other second  I can't change the outfit if I am and c) I really like her outfit, and I really don't want to change it unless it really gets on my nerves.

Modifié par Saibh, 29 octobre 2010 - 04:23 .

[Selene Moonsong]

In fantasy the bulky, spikey, menacing, armor is just as silly as the bikini chainmail outfits. Remember, it's fantasy, not reality. As a woman, I don't mind such things in a fantasy setting, but please don't try to play the "reality" card in arguing against either extreme, the argument doesn't really wash in a fantasy setting.

[Maverick827]

NKKKK wrote...

You don't need to say anythig, but your complaints about this and the boobs are pretty obvious. I'm just saying don't look for sexism where there isn't any.

Sup, broseph.  I'm a cool guy, just like you.  I just want to make sure you know how baller I am, so you know where all of this is coming from.  Bros still use the term "baller," right?  It doesn't matter.

Anyway Brothello, I had to take a feminism class for my degree and I totally disagreed with just about everything it lectured.  I even wrote all my papers on how much I disagreed, brochacho.  Yet I also dislike all of these things you are labeling as "feminism" because they ruin immersion in a game that heavily relies upon immersion.

So listen, Brover Cleveland, just because someone doesn't like fan service, it doesn't mean it has anything to do with "feminism."

Can't we all just fist bump and get along?

Modifié par Maverick827, 29 octobre 2010 - 04:26 .

[NKKKK]

Listen, I'm really sick of personal attacks from you. Stop it.

I can't call you out when you're saying something that warrants discussion now?

Also

In fantasy the bulky, spikey, menacing, armor is just as silly as the bikini chainmail outfits. Remember, it's fantasy, not reality. As a woman, I don't mind such things in a fantasy setting, but please don't try to play the "reality" card in arguing against either extreme, the argument doesn't really wash in a fantasy setting.

This a million times. Thank you Selene

So listen, Brover Cleveland, just because someone doesn't like fan
service, it doesn't mean it has anything to do with "feminism."

In this specific case we're going to have to disagree. And I was saying about looking for sexism, I wans't saying that anyone has a femminist agenda.

Modifié par NKKKK, 29 octobre 2010 - 04:29 .

[Lord_Valandil]

errant_knight wrote...

The only reaction the phrase 'deal with it' ever gets it is impolite muttering, often with the word 'ass', sometimes with something cruder. It never, ever makes anyone agree with you, or even stop presenting their point of view.

Fair enough. Bad choice of words, I say.
So what? Let's riot and pick up torches to make the folks at Bioware change their minds?
We have to deal with it. Complaining is the everyday bread at this forums. Yesterday was about "Isabela shouldn't be a LI because she was in a foursome with the Warden", today is "Oh no, Isabela doesn't have shorts", tomorrow people will complain about something else.

I respect the devs vision of the character. I really don't like Carver's outfit, yet you don't see me opening threads like "Give Carver some sleeves".

Selene Moonsong wrote...

In fantasy the bulky, spikey, menacing, armor is just as silly as the bikini chainmail outfits. Remember, it's fantasy, not reality. As a woman, I don't mind such things in a fantasy setting, but please don't try to play the "reality" card in arguing against either extreme, the argument doesn't really wash in a fantasy setting.

Exactly. Thank you.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 29 octobre 2010 - 04:29 .

[Addai]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

In fantasy the bulky, spikey, menacing, armor is just as silly as the bikini chainmail outfits. Remember, it's fantasy, not reality. As a woman, I don't mind such things in a fantasy setting, but please don't try to play the "reality" card in arguing against either extreme, the argument doesn't really wash in a fantasy setting.

Spikes on armor do have a function, though in DA2 the exaggeration is... exaggerated.

I reject the idea, however, that just because it's a fantasy setting that realism gets tossed out the window.  In a story-based fantasy setting, you have to be able to relate to the characters, and the more farcical they look and act, the less you're able to do that.  I personally wish DA had gone in more of a Song of Ice and Fire direction rather than heading towards comic/ arty/ anime/ over the top as they appear to be doing.

[Lord_Valandil]

Addai67 wrote...

I reject the idea, however, that just because it's a fantasy setting that realism gets tossed out the window.  In a story-based fantasy setting, you have to be able to relate to the characters, and the more farcical they look and act, the less you're able to do that.  I personally wish DA had gone in more of a Song of Ice and Fire direction rather than heading towards comic/ arty/ anime/ over the top as they appear to be doing.

Heh. Following your logic, the bite of a High Dragon should kill you instantly. Because I can't relate to a guy that gets bitten, tossed and crushed by a dragon and despite that, can get up to continue fighting.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 29 octobre 2010 - 05:02 .

[Addai]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I reject the idea, however, that just because it's a fantasy setting that realism gets tossed out the window.  In a story-based fantasy setting, you have to be able to relate to the characters, and the more farcical they look and act, the less you're able to do that.  I personally wish DA had gone in more of a Song of Ice and Fire direction rather than heading towards comic/ arty/ anime/ over the top as they appear to be doing.

Heh. Following your logic, the bite of a High Dragon should kill you instantly.

It often does.  At least, I don't expect a follower to be in the fight when they get chomped unless a mage can heal them.

We could argue this back and forth all day.  Obviously there is going to be a spectrum.  Not only is it a fantasy setting, it's a game, and undue realism would be a burden on gameplay.  As far as the artistic style goes, however, I much prefer a gritty, realistic look with subtle details than a splashy comic-book affair.

As long as we get to customize and mod, y'all can have your enchanted loincloths and battle-sl*t evening dresses and it won't bother me a bit.

[Saibh]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I reject the idea, however, that just because it's a fantasy setting that realism gets tossed out the window.  In a story-based fantasy setting, you have to be able to relate to the characters, and the more farcical they look and act, the less you're able to do that.  I personally wish DA had gone in more of a Song of Ice and Fire direction rather than heading towards comic/ arty/ anime/ over the top as they appear to be doing.

Heh. Following your logic, the bite of a High Dragon should kill you instantly.

You're right; it probably should and it does, sometimes. But game mechanics aren't the same thing as a game story. It's immersive qualities have to be on hold when it comes to battle, most of the time. Flemeth biting and shaking Alistair around like a ragdoll should kill him, but we couldn't play the game if we were expected to actually fight High Dragons in a realistic battle. I mean, using a bow against the Archdemon should do nothing. But the game would be frustrating to play.

They're held in different lights--and you will notice people do often comment when game mechanics go too far in the left field of realism. People complain about the leaping animations, the speed and size of the two-handed sword (in fact, it was slowed down).

Running around in high heels or having unrealistic body models when DAO did just fine without them aren't a part of the same category. Isabela's outfit is only going to bother me if she flashes me a lot--in that case, it directly impedes with the quality of immersion, when fanservice is shoved so blatantly in my face over and over.

Modifié par Saibh, 29 octobre 2010 - 05:03 .

[Aermas]

There are ways to be in a realistic setting with unrealistic elements. Magic exists but it is not ubiquitous, everyone running around with wards & enchanted equipment.



Nkkkk stop the personal attacks, talk in general terms

[Lord_Valandil]

Saibh wrote...

You're right; it probably should and it does, sometimes. But game mechanics aren't the same thing as a game story. It's immersive qualities have to be on hold when it comes to battle, most of the time. Flemeth biting and shaking Alistair around like a ragdoll should kill him, but we couldn't play the game if we were expected to actually fight High Dragons in a realistic battle. I mean, using a bow against the Archdemon should do nothing. But the game would be frustrating to play.

They're held in different lights--and you will notice people do often comment when game mechanics go too far in the left field of realism. People complain about the leaping animations, the speed and size of the two-handed sword (in fact, it was slowed down).

Running around in high heels or having unrealistic body models when DAO did just fine without them aren't a part of the same category. Isabela's outfit is only going to bother me if she flashes me a lot--in that case, it directly impedes with the quality of immersion, when fanservice is shoved so blatantly in my face over and over.

You're right. But we don't know many things yet, who can tell if Isabela will flash a lot? Maybe she won't flash at all.
Sometimes eye-candy or fanservice is truly annoying, like, say, Soul Calibur IV, with those gigantic boobs and tiny outfits. But I don't really see the problem with her (Isabela)...I don't know, I don't like to complain about the characters look. We are the customers, but it's their vision...and myself, as a wannabe author (I'm trying to write a novel) certainly wouldn't like to hear so many bad things about my babies. But of course...not everything has to be rainbows and bunnies.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 29 octobre 2010 - 05:15 .

[Lord_Valandil]

Addai67 wrote...

As long as we get to customize and mod, y'all can have your enchanted loincloths and battle-sl*t evening dresses and it won't bother me a bit.

That's very kind and nice of you. But let me remind you that there aren't mods and customs on the 360 and PS3.
Not that I want loincloths or sl*t dresses, but that's not a good argument, you know.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 29 octobre 2010 - 05:21 .

[Ryzaki]

...Am I the only one bothered by the fact that instead of hearing her speak we got said shot of her armor? I mean I had no problems with Morrigan's love scene in the trailer but I had watched her character trailer by then. I had heard her speak and interact with other PCs beyond a cool mini-fight sequence.

Then again maybe I watched the trailers out of order.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 octobre 2010 - 05:25 .

[Aermas]

Bulky armor is not necessarily unrealistic. If you look at old Maximilian Plate, you can see that it is somewhat bulky but mostly form hugging. & If I remember correctly, it is arguably the most protective "proven plate" that was invented.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

I honestly can't complain about some cheek when we live in a world that makes string bikinis and thongs. I guess I just don't think the right response to the male gaze is to cover women up. If the lady doesn't want to wear pants, she doesn't have to wear pants, and I suspect there are enough women working at Bioware to have already objected where objections are due, if they felt so inclined.

(And I wouldn't wish the task of coming up with yet ANOTHER unique set of fantasy armor on anyone. </artnerd>)

Also, @Lord_Valandil, good point about Soul Calibur. Eek.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 29 octobre 2010 - 05:33 .