734 réponses à ce sujet

[slimgrin]

My guess is we'll get minor variations on an established design when it comes to outfits and armor.

Modifié par slimgrin, 29 octobre 2010 - 06:33 .

[Addai]

Aermas wrote...

Abs =/= a**, let the men rouges wear only Conan style loincloths that never cover what they need to & have people defend the "it helps with manuverablitiy" argument

LOL yes indeed.

[soteria]

The only reaction the phrase 'deal with it' ever gets it is impolite muttering, often with the word 'ass', sometimes with something cruder. It never, ever makes anyone agree with you, or even stop presenting their point of view.

No one likes to be told to deal with it, but sometimes it's just the most appropriate response... like when someone complains about something they can't "fix" and won't be "fixed" and then they continue complaining about it day after day. The person being told to "deal with it" may ignore that and go right on complaining, but that doesn't endear them to anyone. Also, I feel oblidged to point out that it *does* work in real life. People tend to do whatever they like on the internet, though, even when it grates on other people.

Running around in high heels or having unrealistic body models when DAO did just fine without them aren't a part of the same category. Isabela's outfit is only going to bother me if she flashes me a lot--in that case, it directly impedes with the quality of immersion, when fanservice is shoved so blatantly in my face over and over.

I'd like to point out that saying "DAO did just fine with x feature" is a poorly-conceived argument. For one thing, you don't know how DA:O might have done with different body models. For all you or I know, it could have sold a million more copies--or it might have tanked, or it might not affect sales significantly at all. Second, using the same logic we might as well never change anything in a working system. The Ford Model T sold "just fine," so why add crap like an electric starter, adjustable windows, or a new body style?

Abs =/= a**, let the men rouges wear only Conan style loincloths that never cover what they need to & have people defend the "it helps with manuverablitiy" argument

It helps with maneuverability. In bed. Seriously, compare the number of women he sleeps with to the number of men he kills. But actually, do our rogues get to look like Swartzeneggar as well? In that case, I'm totally cool with wearing that armor.

Other than the facts that fantasy =/= reality and that playing the reality card is really just cherry-picking "realism" ("Art" has to be "realistic," but gameplay does not, I guess)... she's a pirate. I believe someone else already pointed out that sailor's aren't really known for wearing steel plate... ever. It just doesn't make sense to wear something that would drown you, does it?

Also, Isabela, like many of our companions, is a civilian, not a professional soldier. Historically, civilians have not been known for wearing heavy armor even when they fight. For that matter, how many civilians in the modern world own or have access to anything more protective than a biking helmet, leather jacket, and kneepads?

If we look at indigineous tribes from the real world, some of whom still practice inter-tribal warfare, most of them aren't wearing any sort of armor. In fact, a quick look at National Geographic reveals that some of them are naked, by Western standards. To listen to some people on these boards, it's unbelievable that anyone would go into melee combat with no more protection than a loincloth and a wooden shield.. but that's the real world. The Dalish are, comparatively speaking, wearing pretty good armor.

[mousestalker]

Pardon my ignorance, but what are 'bikins'? Is this a new term for biking shorts?

[Silent 1]

Her outfit looks like the Robes of the Witch in DA:O which is more revealing...

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Addai67 wrote...

Not the male gaze I'm worried about.  I'd rather not see ass flash while I'm playing the game.  And since she's a pixel person and I'm the player, she doesn't get to "want" to wear something.  Assuming DA is still an RPG and we still get to fit out NPCs as we want.

I see your point, but sometimes characters do "want" to wear something, from an art/writing standpoint. The approval of this design over many others says much about how right it is for the character, and as is usually the case, it is not just one person with a thing for butts making that design call.

It's just a butt, and a pixel butt as you say, but may you be spared all the butt shots the game has to offer, if any.

[not directed at you] I really don't get this obsession with control over every little thing. You can't tell your band of darkspawn slaying bretheren how to dress in real life, can you?

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 29 octobre 2010 - 06:39 .

[General Malor]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Abs =/= a**, let the men rouges wear only Conan style loincloths that never cover what they need to & have people defend the "it helps with manuverablitiy" argument

By Crom, let's not bring Robert E. Howard into this!



Isabela is wearing a lot more than say, Sandahl Bergman in Conan the Barbarian, though.

Hey I actually did wish I could let my Dalish just wear a loin cloth, moccasins and some type of arm bands or something, maybe get an Ash warrior khadis so I'll have something like warpaint. Basically I wish I could have made my Dalish this... 1.bp.blogspot.com/_mLlzOnL7nec/RoC6068XybI/AAAAAAAAAkw/iRdQ7kHiG0M/s1600-h/PL32.jpg

[ENolan]

mousestalker wrote...

Pardon my ignorance, but what are 'bikins'? Is this a new term for biking shorts?

It's short for 'Bikini Bickerin'. but do NOT progounce the G in bickering unless you want fanboy rage all over you. They have a habit of that sadly....

[Maria Caliban]

mousestalker wrote...

Pardon my ignorance, but what are 'bikins'? Is this a new term for biking shorts?

A bikini is a type of female swimwear that comes in two pieces.

The chainmail bikini was popularized by Red Sonja and has come to mean any armor for women that fails at being actual armor because large parts of it are missing to show her body.

[ENolan]

Maria Caliban wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Pardon my ignorance, but what are 'bikins'? Is this a new term for biking shorts?

A bikini is a type of female swimwear that comes in two pieces.

The chainmail bikini was popularized by Red Sonja and has come to mean any armor for women that fails at being actual armor because large parts of it are missing to show her body.

Wait! They weren't joking?! Oops...

[Maria Caliban]

I was under the impression mousestalker was European.

[TheOrtReport]

I just don't really see the big deal in this discussion.  Isabela is first of all :

1. A pirate, pirates don't usually rock heavy armor and don't give a damn about modesty

and

2. A femme fatale/seductress type of character apparently, so she probably uses her body to her advantage, being decked out in full plate isn't exactly sexy.

With these two points in mind I think the outfit fits her character perfectly.  It isn't always about being practical in terms of hand to hand combat, outfits have other uses.

Sidenote, someone posted a picture way back in the thread that displayed Male Hawke in leather armor and they said that Isabela wearing this would be much better.  My question with this is why?  When it comes down to it, is that layer of leather really going to make all the difference when you are stabbed with a sword or hit with an axe?  Any of these weapons would go right through the leather and hit the skin. 

[Maria Caliban]

TheOrtReport wrote...

2. A femme fatale/seductress type of character apparently, so she probably uses her body to her advantage, being decked out in full plate isn't exactly sexy.

She doesn't strike me as a femme fatale at all.

[Nozybidaj]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

By Crom, let's not bring Robert E. Howard into this!

Yes lets not, as the movie Conan is pretty far removed from the novels REH wrote.  Not that I didn't enjoy the movies, I still get a kick out of popping Conan the Barbarian into the DVD player once in a while, but it is only, at the very best, loosely connected to the books.

Maria Caliban wrote...

The chainmail bikini
was popularized by Red Sonja and has come to mean any armor for women
that fails at being actual armor because large parts of it are missing
to show her body.

I fail to see the problem here.

[upsettingshorts]

Maria Caliban wrote...

She doesn't strike me as a femme fatale at all.

Something tells me most people who use this term have never actually seen, say, Double Indemnity

[mousestalker]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I was under the impression mousestalker was European.

No, I'm snarky and pedantic and long past the age of voluntarily ever wearing a bikini.

Modifié par mousestalker, 29 octobre 2010 - 08:11 .

[Maria13]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

She doesn't strike me as a femme fatale at all.

Something tells me most people who use this term have never actually seen, say, Double Indemnity

Or the Maltese Falcon or The Postman Always Rings Twice (either version) or Body Heat...

By her nature a "femme fatale" is usually inordinately dependent if not married before seducing her male victim and using him to attain her ends which tend to be financial/sexual in nature and often involve disposing of an inconvenient husband or lover... The femme fatale is actually a victim/manipulator of female oppression and often ends up in hoick to another equally abusive male... or exposed to the justice system or even executed, but not before taking a hapless male down with her.

So I agree Isabella has nothing of the "femme fatale" being as independent as any female ever can be and quite used to expressing and satisfying her own needs. She is not dependent on her latest lover disposing of an earlier one. Yes, she may have used Zev to kill her abusive husband but she paid him took over hubby's business and ran it herself. Not a "femme fatale".

[Ryzaki]

I'm pretty sure all that gold around her neck would weigh her down pretty quickly. And that cloth is something nice to grab at. (as well as her long hair should the cloth come off).



Her outfit isn't realistic from a fighter's point of view either.



If she was to be realistic her hair would be short, and that cloth wouldn't be conveniently covering her ass. (sometimes) that jewerly wouldn't be there and she wouldn't be wearing that head...thing. (isn't sure what to call it).

[marbatico]

Ryzaki wrote...
...and she wouldn't be wearing that head...thing. (isn't sure what to call it).

i think its a bandana.

[Aermas]

TheOrtReport wrote...

I just don't really see the big deal in this discussion.  Isabela is first of all :

1. A pirate, pirates don't usually rock heavy armor and don't give a damn about modesty

and

2. A femme fatale/seductress type of character apparently, so she probably uses her body to her advantage, being decked out in full plate isn't exactly sexy.

With these two points in mind I think the outfit fits her character perfectly.  It isn't always about being practical in terms of hand to hand combat, outfits have other uses.

Sidenote, someone posted a picture way back in the thread that displayed Male Hawke in leather armor and they said that Isabela wearing this would be much better.  My question with this is why?  When it comes down to it, is that layer of leather really going to make all the difference when you are stabbed with a sword or hit with an axe?  Any of these weapons would go right through the leather and hit the skin. 

I'm going to put cracks in you logic here

1) Most sailors pirates cannot swim this is a historical fact, & the fact that she as 10lbs of gold on her neck doesn't help your arguement

2) Femme Fatales are mildly psychopathic women using their appearance to lure men in to kill them

3) Boiled leather armor is NOTHING like a leather biker jacket. It is like wood & will protect against a range of combat misfortunes. If anything it would stop her from having messed up scarred & ugly legs from all the wounds of combat.

[soteria]

She doesn't strike me as a femme fatale at all.

I suspect he was just [mis]using the term "femme fatale" to mean a woman who is good at both sex and killing, but I could be wrong.

Seems to me that the most prevalent request is that she simply wear shorts, not death knight armor.

Possibly, but I wasn't really trying to address the modesty/fanservice issue. Rather, I was responding to the argument that not wearing armor in combat is "unrealistic."

[Demx]

I didn't know my opening topic would be taken as sexism, and I apologize to those whom I offended with my sexist slurs.

David Gaider wrote...

Siradix wrote...
So we were told that chainmail bikins were never going to be included in DA2, understandable. But what's with having Isabela wear an outfit so short that we can see butt every time she jumps? Or is this the current fad? Side boobs for 2009 and butts for 2011.

We were never against having sexy outfits. What we were trying to do is not have everything be sexy and revealing, even when it didn't make any sense. Our heavy armor is still heavy even on female characters (you can see this in the Lady Hawke armor, for instance) and even for non-armor outfits there are still more modest versions, depending on the character in question.

Thank you for confirming for me that we will have a selection of outfits to choose from, with some being more modest than others for each character.

Modifié par Siradix, 29 octobre 2010 - 08:41 .

[Maria Caliban]

mousestalker wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I was under the impression mousestalker was European.

No, I'm snarky and pedantic and long past the age of voluntarily ever wearing a bikini.

I see.

[Logabob]

Male characters need to fight in their underwear ala 300. Then balance will be restored.