17 réponses à ce sujet

[Jon Jern_]

I'm just wondering, because with the Respec mod I respecced Leliana to have more talents in the Archery tree than in the Rogue tree, since my main character is a Rogue. Should I spec her back to take advantage of Lethality? I always though Archery depended only on Dex, but also learned earlier ago that it also depends on STR.

[termokanden]

Bows use strength and dexterity equally to determine damage. So Lethality does let you use your cunning to add damage. It doesn't add ranged crit though, that part of it is for melee only.



So you can indeed make a high-cunning build work for a rogue archer. If you do, however, I would advise taking a good amount of buffs with you, since you might miss a lot otherwise (Lethality doesn't add attack rating, you need dex for that).



I recommend Bard/Duelist to get both Song of Courage and Dueling to boost your attack and damage.



Alternatively, you can get just enough strength for whatever armor you want to wear and put the rest into dex. Cunning is kept at a minimum (30 if you need lockpicking, 22 if you just want stealth). In this case, you can skip Lethality.

[cJohnOne]

I'd go all Dex. and get all four levels of Ranger pets.

[freddfx]

All DEX is fine for the beginning of the game, you get a decent defense rating and attack however mid to end game your armor penetration just sucks. Plus bard songs and tainted blade both increase your crit chance and are augmented by CUN... so mid to end game CUN/bard archers really shine.



Plus as someone else said before "there are two types of archers in DA:O... ones with shale's rock mastery and bad ones"



if you're running in a warrior group, rally is going to give a decent bonus to attack and defense... and if you have another rogue on the team give them song of courage for DMG/CRIT/ATT bonus



So i really do recommend going CUN/Lethality if archer... unless you're playing on normal or easy... which in that case you could solo the game with a rabbit and never die.

[Elhanan]

freddfx wrote...

All DEX is fine for the beginning of the game, you get a decent defense rating and attack however mid to end game your armor penetration just sucks. Plus bard songs and tainted blade both increase your crit chance and are augmented by CUN... so mid to end game CUN/bard archers really shine.

Plus as someone else said before "there are two types of archers in DA:O... ones with shale's rock mastery and bad ones"

if you're running in a warrior group, rally is going to give a decent bonus to attack and defense... and if you have another rogue on the team give them song of courage for DMG/CRIT/ATT bonus

So i really do recommend going CUN/Lethality if archer... unless you're playing on normal or easy... which in that case you could solo the game with a rabbit and never die.

Have to disagree. While I ain't an expert on Cunning Rogues, I do know that Shale and Lethality are not needed to make a Rogue shine.

As mentioned earlier, one may skip Lethality and increase STR to 38+ to wear heavy armor (or not) and gain all the benefits of STR; not just some of it. Not only does this increase dmg, but allows for more armor, possible shield use in melee, and larger weapons.

[chefbobby203]

The other good thing about a strength build like that(aside from what Elhanan mentioned) is that you'll need less talent points to optimize your build. The other talents in the Lethality line are not worth getting in my opinion, but the talent itself is crucial in a cunning build. If you go with a strength archer you can just skip that whole line and focus on your archery or specialization talents first without gimping your damage

[termokanden]

I can say from personal experience that pure dex rogues work just fine throughout all of Origins and do plenty of damage. I prefer to focus heavily on cunning these days though.

Lethality are not needed to make a Rogue shine.

Lethality does boost your crit % considerably if you are a DW (or other melee) rogue. So even if you don't focus on cunning, I consider it to be worth the points.

Modifié par termokanden, 30 octobre 2010 - 06:31 .

[freddfx]

Elhanan wrote...

freddfx wrote...

All DEX is fine for the beginning of the game, you get a decent defense rating and attack however mid to end game your armor penetration just sucks. Plus bard songs and tainted blade both increase your crit chance and are augmented by CUN... so mid to end game CUN/bard archers really shine.

Plus as someone else said before "there are two types of archers in DA:O... ones with shale's rock mastery and bad ones"

if you're running in a warrior group, rally is going to give a decent bonus to attack and defense... and if you have another rogue on the team give them song of courage for DMG/CRIT/ATT bonus

So i really do recommend going CUN/Lethality if archer... unless you're playing on normal or easy... which in that case you could solo the game with a rabbit and never die.

Have to disagree. While I ain't an expert on Cunning Rogues, I do know that Shale and Lethality are not needed to make a Rogue shine.

As mentioned earlier, one may skip Lethality and increase STR to 38+ to wear heavy armor (or not) and gain all the benefits of STR; not just some of it. Not only does this increase dmg, but allows for more armor, possible shield use in melee, and larger weapons.

I see what you're saying in terms of versatility... ok so you can swap out to weapons with high STR requirements... but to me a archer really shines with it's crit damage, otherwise why bother? you'll be chipping away at the enemy at best. So in my build i do strive for the highest crit rate possible... and your damage and crit rate is raised with CUN vs. just damage with STR

assuming we are still talking about Origins here.

as for shale, well... rock mastery maxed gives a huge crit bonus in addition to reducing aim speed by -2.0 (-4.0 on area reload and doubled crit) almost as fast as the bugged repeater gloves and faster with the area reload. Basically thats a requirement if you're running Aim which adds a painful +1.6 to your aim time, and with most rapid aim gear only chipping off -0.3 off your aim speed you'll never get past the Aim penalty let alone speed up your aiming time. 

Im not a huge fan of the time it takes to use archery talents... even if you use stealth often (which ISN'T happening if you're running Tainted Blade!) 

The same petty much applies to DA:OA, but instead you can reach autocrit all by yourself with Accuracy + Aim + song of courage (and lethality 10% crit chance bonus) early on, and later on without using aim at all (and no penalty) 

plus, armor piercing for high CUN archers/dw is just insane... enemies might as well fight naked. Not that i want to picture the darkspawn naked. 

Modifié par freddfx, 02 novembre 2010 - 11:37 .

[Elhanan]

freddfx wrote...

I see what you're saying in terms of versatility... ok so you can swap out to weapons with high STR requirements... but to me a archer really shines with it's crit damage, otherwise why bother? you'll be chipping away at the enemy at best. So in my build i do strive for the highest crit rate possible... and your damage and crit rate is raised with CUN vs. just damage with STR

assuming we are still talking about Origins here.

as for shale, well... rock mastery maxed gives a huge crit bonus in addition to reducing aim speed by -2.0 (-4.0 on area reload and doubled crit) almost as fast as the bugged repeater gloves and faster with the area reload. Basically thats a requirement if you're running Aim which adds a painful +1.6 to your aim time, and with most rapid aim gear only chipping off -0.3 off your aim speed you'll never get past the Aim penalty let alone speed up your aiming time. 

Im not a huge fan of the time it takes to use archery talents... even if you use stealth often (which ISN'T happening if you're running Tainted Blade!) 

The same petty much applies to DA:OA, but instead you can reach autocrit all by yourself with Accuracy + Aim + song of courage (and lethality 10% crit chance bonus) early on, and later on without using aim at all (and no penalty) 

plus, armor piercing for high CUN archers/dw is just insane... enemies might as well fight naked. Not that i want to picture the darkspawn naked. 

By increasing STR, a Rogue may wear Cailan's armor or pieces, and those gauntlets have +15% Crit, though I am uncertain if that applies to ranged. But increasing STR does open more item usage with a wider range of choices in armor and weapons.

I run Duelist instead of Bard, and take Assassin spec for inate bonuses.

[termokanden]

I though Lethality only adds melee crit chance, not ranged.

[freddfx]

those gauntlets only add 15% crit damage but not crit chance... it's basically the red jenny seekers with +1 armor... so why not just wear the red jenny seekers?

[chefbobby203]

For a set bonus? Or perhaps he just likes the style

[Elhanan]

freddfx wrote...

those gauntlets only add 15% crit damage but not crit chance... it's basically the red jenny seekers with +1 armor... so why not just wear the red jenny seekers?

If alive, I usually give these to Zev, and Lil gets the Repeaters. Cailan's guantlets can be upgraded to tier 7 (uncertain of the RJ Seekers), and the extra armor is helpful. Sometimes I go with Diligence gauntlets, but my point is that the selection is wider for choices with STR.

[DWSmiley]

Aim + Master Archer is the best buff - it doubles the critical chance and gives +15 attack, +3 damage and +5 armor penetration. But you want to avoid the aim time penaly, which means either Repeater Gloves or Shale's Rock Mastery. And Rock Mastery adds another +10% ranged critical chance - sweet.

[naledgeborn]

I'm actually having trouble with an archer build right now. I wanted to make an Robin Hood HN rogue archer but I kept getting pwnd (nightmare) so I called it quits. I went with Coercion/Stealing/Combat Training. Focused on Archer talents, Deft Hands, and Below the Belt Tree (Lethality). I went with the Duelist spec and S&S for melee. I was rocking Red Steel med Chainmail and Arlathan's Sorrow. Dude just wasn't making the cut, especially during Broken Circle. If anybody could help me improve this build I'd appreciate it.

[Elhanan]

naledgeborn wrote...

I'm actually having trouble with an archer build right now. I wanted to make an Robin Hood HN rogue archer but I kept getting pwnd (nightmare) so I called it quits. I went with Coercion/Stealing/Combat Training. Focused on Archer talents, Deft Hands, and Below the Belt Tree (Lethality). I went with the Duelist spec and S&S for melee. I was rocking Red Steel med Chainmail and Arlathan's Sorrow. Dude just wasn't making the cut, especially during Broken Circle. If anybody could help me improve this build I'd appreciate it.

Try this. If you do not care for it, nothing lost:
 
For skills, try Combat Training, Coersion, Survival, and then Stealing.

For Talents, all Archer choices (Master Archer is great when you start wearing heavy armor), Duelist (3 or 4), Dirty Fighting line (3), Stealth (4), Deft Hands (4). Skip Lethality line

Magic and CON: no extra pts. Items and Fade pts should be enough.

WILL to 20-30. I prefer the latter, but this is personal pref.

Cunning 22, or if you take Deft Hands (4), go up to 30.

STR to 38, Get STR to 20 quickly to use top tier light armors until you can get Evon's heavy mail.

Remaining pts to DEX.

The adds to STR, armor and Stealth should improve survival overall, and the Survival skill also helps with buffs and intel of what lies ahead.

[Jon Jern_]

Actually I usually only put Deft Hands @ 3 and I could unlock every chest.

Of course I prefer cunning builds, so I wouldn't know how it is for a STR rogue.

[termokanden]

Elhanan is right that you'd need 30 cunning (with gear) to unlock everything with Deft Hands(4). However, if you have a cunning build it's a very different story.

At some point you can actually get so much cunning that you don't even need Deft Hands at all. Likely to be either very late in the game or maybe not until Awakening. I believe 70 cunning is the magic number where Deft Hands is no longer needed.

Modifié par termokanden, 08 novembre 2010 - 04:30 .