202 réponses à ce sujet

[Tranceptor]

David Gaider wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
Just answering like that brings up more questions and fears and assumptions and whatever.
Although, it is more a designer or technical question than one for the lead writer.

Yes, I imagine my vague response will just prompt some to fear the worst. \\and not a "maybe".

I've just lost ten years off my life.


Anyway, I'm not a fan of cloaks, they cover up too much of a character I spent a lot of time making. Oh, there should be a toggle! 

[Beerfish]

Kotor 2 cut a good ending and set aside bug crunching so they could put in cloaks.

[ErichHartmann]

Tranceptor wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
Just answering like that brings up more questions and fears and assumptions and whatever.
Although, it is more a designer or technical question than one for the lead writer.

Yes, I imagine my vague response will just prompt some to fear the worst. \\\\\\\\and not a "maybe".

I've just lost ten years off my life.


Anyway, I'm not a fan of cloaks, they cover up too much of a character I spent a lot of time making. Oh, there should be a toggle! 

Yes, there should be a helmet toggle! (Points to Gaider)

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 29 octobre 2010 - 03:02 .

[Lord_Valandil]

Tranceptor wrote...

Oh, there should be a toggle! 

Heh. You don't like kittens, I see.

[Tranceptor]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Tranceptor wrote...

Oh, there should be a toggle! 

Heh. You don't like kittens, I see.

But it's a cloak toggle not a helmet one.

That makes it easier to make.

Right?

[Daerog]

Bringing up KotOR 2 and saying "why can't BioWare do that?" is quite the facepalm to me. It was a great game, and I do like it, but the ending was rushed and the holes were quite visible in that game. Obsidian really needed more time on that game, or at least have been better organized/scheduled.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 29 octobre 2010 - 03:09 .

[Tranceptor]

Beerfish wrote...

Kotor 2 cut a good ending and set aside bug crunching so they could put in cloaks.

Then Obsidian did it again for NWN2.

Such a lousy trade.

[Hello There]

David Gaider wrote...

Hello There wrote...
Of coarse i do, thats why i said "Seriously Bioware, if Obsidion can do it with KotOR 2, then why cant you?"

And the answer to that is "because Obsidian was working with a sequel engine in which there were few changes, and thus their 'must haves' were largely already complete." As I'd already pointed out. People shouldn't assume that all projects are equal and that features from one can be transferred easily to another without any trade-offs-- that's overly simplistic thinking, I'm afraid.

Yeah i understand now, after what you said before, that it would be harder to have cloaks for DA2 than for KotOr 2, i was just replying to that person who thought i didnt know KotOR 2 was made by Obsison.

And also, just me, but i would rather have DAO's same graphical engine unchanged in DA2 and include awesome cloaks, than have new graphics and no cloaks ( i liked DAO's graphics anyway, in fact i liked the whole game a lot). This is why i like KotOR 2 more than KotOR 1 (various reasons, actually, but cloaks are a a large one).

If i wanted cool graphics, i would (and can) play Uncharted 2 or God of War 3, but i would rather have cloaks and those other "nice to have's" on your list. I dont think cloaks are a waste of resources.

[Hello There]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Bringing up KotOR 2 and saying "why can't BioWare do that?" is quite the facepalm to me. It was a great game, and I do like it, but the ending was rushed and the holes were quite visible in that game. Obsidian really needed more time on that game, or at least have been better organized/scheduled.

I dissagree, i know most people dont like KotOR 2, but im one of the odd ones, i like it more than the first.

It has better characters, better gameplay, better levels, cloaksB), much better replay value (which is important for me, since i must have played that game like 12 times now). I like its story a lot more as well, aside from the ending (which wasnt that bad).

[Brockololly]

guh...I'd have gladly kept the non "hot rod samurai" graphics "improvement" of DA2 for horses and cloaks and who knows what else. Its just a tad disappointing with DA2 as I was thinking it would take the BG2 route of a sequel and build on what Origins established and add more cool stuff, instead of ripping out the foundation and starting over.

[Dazaster Dellus]

Tranceptor wrote...

Anyway, I'm not a fan of cloaks, they cover up too much of a character I spent a lot of time making. Oh, there should be a toggle! 

That's the beauty of creation. Someone could create a toggle button or something to have your character put up his or her cloak hood or take it down in game. Imagine the thought of your character being a rogue assassin pressing the A button(example) to put up your cloak hood before you stealthily execute a target. Then afterwards taking your hood down and rejoining the rest of the world after successfully killing your target and preserving your identity. That would be sweet.

Which now leads me to wonder why there isn't at least one or two rogue based missions(or even if you could do it the entire game) where you could stealthily infiltrate a castle or something by yourself or with a team of other rogues from your group stealth kill everyone, gather info, assassinate people, eavesdrop, without alerting enemies. If you do alert them it would then revert to normal DA combat style. That would be a great change of pace and open up even more ways to complete objectives, etc, etc.  But this is another topic for another time.

[vocalemuse]

David Gaider wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
It's an extra model that requires a lot of extra work. They don't need it for the game to work, so they remove it and add something extra with the funding they could use with it.

This is pretty much it. Cloaks are like horses, in that they would be really cool to include-- and it always comes up, and we always try to include them-- but they're very firmly on the "nice to have" list. Not only are they "nice to have" but they're part of a unique group which manages to be surprisingly expensive to do properly, as expensive as many things we need on the "must have" list.

So inevitably at some point we have to set them aside in favor of our "must haves" and any "nice to haves" that we can get to which are less expensive. This is why you tend to see things like this in sequels (where many of the "must haves" are already done).

Had we not revamped the graphical system for DA2 (which we felt was very much needed) I'm sure we could have included them. Hopefully this is the sort of thing we can get to in the future, because in my opinion they'd add a lot of flavor.

Horses first, please!

Riding a horse in-game > cloak billowing in-game. xD

[upsettingshorts]

vocalemuse wrote...

Horses first, please!

Riding a horse in-game > cloak billowing in-game. xD

Conan has both!  And it's still running, I think!

[ErichHartmann]

Meh, nevermind.

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 29 octobre 2010 - 04:02 .

[vocalemuse]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

vocalemuse wrote...

Horses first, please!

Riding a horse in-game > cloak billowing in-game. xD

Conan has both!  And it's still running, I think!

I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than play that game.

[David Gaider]

Brockololly wrote...
guh...I'd have gladly kept the non "hot rod samurai" graphics "improvement" of DA2 for horses and cloaks and who knows what else. Its just a tad disappointing with DA2 as I was thinking it would take the BG2 route of a sequel and build on what Origins established and add more cool stuff, instead of ripping out the foundation and starting over.

It wasn't just making it "hot rod samurai", though. We did proceed with exactly what you suggested at first, but part of the problem with DAO was that it spent so long in development and thus its graphics were pretty behind the times in terms of newer releases. Happily that didn't have a big effect on its sales (or so we assume), but that situation was only going to get worse as time passed-- even for those of you that don't personally assign much value to graphics, you have to admit this is true. From our perspective it was either feel the pain now or feel it even more later when and if we made a third game.

[upsettingshorts]

vocalemuse wrote...
I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than play that game.

That's too bad, you're missing out.  I had my run though, done now.  Now I just bring it up where appropriate on the DA:2 boards.  Like, "How can you mix exciting combat and RPG mechanics effectively" and such.

Fact is though it has totally ruined me for MMO combat in the future.  Everything else just looks and feels so boring, simplistic, and hands-off.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 29 octobre 2010 - 03:59 .

[Dave of Canada]

David Gaider wrote...

From our perspective it was either feel the pain now or feel it even more later when and if we made a third game.

So, IF there were to be a third Dragon Age there could be stuff like Horses / Bowstrings and Cloaks considering you've essentially nailed the graphics engine down?

[Greed1914]

slimgrin wrote...

 http://t2.gstatic.co...VZiyJLr_gK25N8=

If Batman could do it...

Speaking of, I remember seeing a video with one of the devs at Rocksteady and he commented on how the cape was practically it's own character because of how much work went into it when they made Arkham Asylum.  Granted, with Batman you have no choice but to include it, but it does lend to the idea that a cape or cloak would probably be effort that was better used elsewhere. 

Although, I will admit that I love capes, but I'm also a huge super hero fan, so there's that.

[vocalemuse]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

vocalemuse wrote...
I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than play that game.

That's too bad, you're missing out.  I had my run though, done now.  Now I just bring it up where appropriate on the DA:2 boards.  Like, "How can you mix exciting combat and RPG mechanics effectively" and such.

Fact is though it has totally ruined me for MMO combat in the future.  Everything else just looks and feels so boring, simplistic, and hands-off.

I've played it, and I'm definitely not missing out.

Anyway - back to the cloaks! Which should be horses first, then bowstrings, then cloaks. xD

Modifié par vocalemuse, 29 octobre 2010 - 04:10 .

[Brockololly]

David Gaider wrote...

It wasn't just making it "hot rod samurai", though. We did proceed with exactly what you suggested at first, but part of the problem with DAO was that it spent so long in development and thus its graphics were pretty behind the times in terms of newer releases. Happily that didn't have a big effect on its sales (or so we assume), but that situation was only going to get worse as time passed-- even for those of you that don't personally assign much value to graphics, you have to admit this is true. From our perspective it was either feel the pain now or feel it even more later when and if we made a third game.

Oh, I'm not opposed to flashier graphics at all, and surely Origins could have used  some more visual juice; its just that from what I've seen thus far of DA2, the graphics don't look any better than Origins and in some cases it all looks much worse. I'm just hoping its because you guys are still working on things obviously- I really want to see this new lighting system as I thought that was one of the big weaknesses of Origins visually.

Of course, the constant rush for flashier graphics just makes me wish BioWare would make a nice isometric top down Diablo 3 looking, BG style playing RPG in the DA universe, so instead of focusing on marginally better graphics you could focus on the more important stuff like content. My lord that would be awesome.

Modifié par Brockololly, 29 octobre 2010 - 04:13 .

[ErichHartmann]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

vocalemuse wrote...
I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than play that game.

That's too bad, you're missing out.  I had my run though, done now.  Now I just bring it up where appropriate on the DA:2 boards.  Like, "How can you mix exciting combat and RPG mechanics effectively" and such.

Fact is though it has totally ruined me for MMO combat in the future.  Everything else just looks and feels so boring, simplistic, and hands-off.

Check out Vindictus.  Worth playing just for the combat physics. 

[darkshadow136]

There is a Mod out the adds robes that have capes. I have to admit it is pretty sad a modder can make Capes for DAO but Bioware failed to bring them inot the game.

Here is the link to the one mod I found with Capes, and I believe there are others, but I forget which site those are on.

www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php

[Aermas]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

vocalemuse wrote...
I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than play that game.

That's too bad, you're missing out.  I had my run though, done now.  Now I just bring it up where appropriate on the DA:2 boards.  Like, "How can you mix exciting combat and RPG mechanics effectively" and such.

Fact is though it has totally ruined me for MMO combat in the future.  Everything else just looks and feels so boring, simplistic, and hands-off.

Check out Vindictus.  Worth playing just for the combat physics. 

Is it anime-ish? (I don't like anime-ish games)

[AdamNW]

David Gaider wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
It's an extra model that requires a lot of extra work. They don't need it for the game to work, so they remove it and add something extra with the funding they could use with it.

This is pretty much it. Cloaks are like horses, in that they would be really cool to include-- and it always comes up, and we always try to include them-- but they're very firmly on the "nice to have" list. Not only are they "nice to have" but they're part of a unique group which manages to be surprisingly expensive to do properly, as expensive as many things we need on the "must have" list.

You could always include it as Day 1 DLC and watch the site go nuts.  That would easily be worth the cost : D