202 réponses à ce sujet

[KLUME777]

tmp7704 wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

This is the Jedi robes from KOTOR 2 (Obsidion). There is no hoods. Honestly, which would you rather have (all of these images are bad quality, its surprisingly hard to find good images of KOTOR on the web).

I hate the hoopla over the cloaks so given the choice, would personally prefer the former. If just because KotOR2 robes had that odd "2 sizes too big" appearance, to minimize issues with the cloak animation i guess.

Oh and bums the size of a barn. Which is why my characters spent the game sticking to the battlesuits and such.

Well, i did say that was a bad photo, there isnt many good images out there.

Also, i actually (for my Force-focused characters) wore those robes the whole game, for the appearance, not just stats. It would be awesome if Mages had similar robes.

[Face of Evil]

Clo-ho-ho-hooooooaks! 

*Sobs uncontrollably*

COME BACK, ZINC CLOAKS! COME BACK!





Nah, I'll get over it. I didn't need to look like an Altair ripoff anyway.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 29 octobre 2010 - 05:33 .

[The_11thDoctor]

David Gaider wrote...

It's expensive to do properly, yes, because you either need a solution for cloth physics which covers the entire game or you'd need to combine cloak animations with every other animation you have (of which there are a lot). I'd think cloth physics would be an easier and more encompassing solution, but my view of it is pretty simplistic so I tend to trust the programmers who tell me there's more involved than I think.

Or you could just say we're lazy, as one poster above mentioned. Yeah, we were gonna but... nah. That would eat into our cheetos time.

I see. Well Cheetos are important, so we can't have that! Though more than the cloaks, I wish the horses could have made it. There are some epic fights in the DA book and having horse battles would be epic! Imagin the stratagies of fighting on horseback... And having Other forces riding on horses or Darkspawn on some wierd creatures riding into battle! Is it really that hard to program the ability to get on a horse in the current engine? Or just modeling and rigging a decent horse/s and animating them well too expensive?

[KLUME777]

aang001 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

It's expensive to do properly, yes, because you either need a solution for cloth physics which covers the entire game or you'd need to combine cloak animations with every other animation you have (of which there are a lot). I'd think cloth physics would be an easier and more encompassing solution, but my view of it is pretty simplistic so I tend to trust the programmers who tell me there's more involved than I think.

Or you could just say we're lazy, as one poster above mentioned. Yeah, we were gonna but... nah. That would eat into our cheetos time.

I see. Well Cheetos are important, so we can't have that! Though more than the cloaks, I wish the horses could have made it. There are some epic fights in the DA book and having horse battles would be epic! Imagin the stratagies of fighting on horseback... And having Other forces riding on horses or Darkspawn on some wierd creatures riding into battle! Is it really that hard to program the ability to get on a horse in the current engine? Or just modeling and rigging a decent horse/s and animating them well too expensive?

I dont understand why they werent able to have a couple of static horse. If they had bears and Halla, why not horses? But its not a problem for me anyway, was just wonderin', i would rather cloaks over horses.

[tmp7704]

KLUME777 wrote...

Well, i did say that was a bad photo, there isnt many good images out there.

Nah it's not really the photos. These models were so bad, i still kind of remember them back from playing the game

Though it could be in part just because of how inflated the characters would look in them compared to (some) of the regular armour. If someone happened to like the cloaks and wore only them, then it was probably easier to overlook.

[Face of Evil]

KLUME777 wrote...

I dont understand why they werent able to have a couple of static horse. If they had bears and Halla, why not horses?

The problem is finding a proper model to render.

You see, horses don't look like horses on screen. You have to string a bunch of cats together, and who's got the time for that?

Modifié par Face of Evil, 29 octobre 2010 - 05:42 .

[Revan312]

David Gaider wrote...

Dazaster Dellus wrote...
That is crazy! lol! It really is that expensive to do? Some company out there needs to get creative and find a good, easier way to make them.  BTW, I am very glad you guys opted to upgrade the graphics. lol! I'll just leave it at that.

It's expensive to do properly, yes, because you either need a solution for cloth physics which covers the entire game or you'd need to combine cloak animations with every other animation you have (of which there are a lot). I'd think cloth physics would be an easier and more encompassing solution, but my view of it is pretty simplistic so I tend to trust the programmers who tell me there's more involved than I think.

Or you could just say we're lazy, as one poster above mentioned. Yeah, we were gonna but... nah. That would eat into our cheetos time.

If you have the basic physics engine nailed down it's not that hard really, it's just time consuming to get the densities and collision detection to look good.  Vampire: Bloodlines had clothing physics and that was 6 years ago, except they had terrible collision detection so your trench coat/dress would just merge with themselves and look like a jaggy mess of flickering fluttering spikes of cloth, which happened a lot. City of Heroes has really good cape physics now, but when they released them originally they had the same problems..

So implementing them isn't hard but making them look good/not buggy is difficult. Personally if they arn't done well then they shouldn't do them at all as the coolness is offset when your characters clothes cut through their face and stay that way until you turn them around 20 times extremely fast to unmerge the clothes from the model..Though really, when it comes down to it, if your engine has adequite physics embedded properly then you guys should be able to do them just fine, and from a texture point of view, they're by far the easiest to make. Hopefully you guys can add them in with some DLC at some time because they do add a lot of flavor in a fantasy game imo.

[The_11thDoctor]

xXiTz ZellerFuzeXx wrote...

I'm so mad my. My friend stole my Cerberus card and my parents wont by me Microsoft points. Anyone got an extra redemption code on hand ill do almost anything for it.

If I remembered mine from when I owned a 360, I would have gave you mine... Sorry. Whenever Tekken 6 dropped was the last time I touched a 360, so I can't recall it offhand.

[KLUME777]

tmp7704 wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

Well, i did say that was a bad photo, there isnt many good images out there.

Nah it's not really the photos. These models were so bad, i still kind of remember them back from playing the game

Though it could be in part just because of how inflated the characters would look in them compared to (some) of the regular armour. If someone happened to like the cloaks and wore only them, then it was probably easier to overlook.

No, i used to play with armour and lightsabour until i became a master at the game and started relying on the force and robes. I dont think there ugly, i think there the coolest robes in a game ever (on female characters, which was the only type i played, Jedi Exile was cannon as female, look it up). Maybe it was your screen that made it look wide?

[Leonia]

I'd rather have horses than cloaks, personally. If there was ever a game that mixed Dragon Age and Mount & Blade.. I may never stop playing it. But that's just me, I think mounts would add something to the combat and strategy whereas cloaks are just cosmetic and pretty in concept art.

[The_11thDoctor]

Brockololly wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...
Ummm....BioWare has always been about content first then graphics and how about saving your judgments for release.  You have no idea how DAII will look on a high end PC.   

Eh- when Baldur's Gate 2 came out it was lauded for having amazing graphics at the time. What made BG2 so great was that it had/has great graphics and had tons of content. I think its about striking that balance between your fluffy graphics/voice acting/cinematics and actual content. I thought Origins hit that balance pretty damn well but I'm worried DA2 is creeping more towards focusing on the graphics/VO/cinematics at the expense of actual RPG content. But we'll see.

And as far as not being impressed with DA2's graphics- I'm not impressed based on much of what BioWare has released thus far. I think its fair enough to form an opinion of how the game looks based on what BioWare's marketing is willfully releasing for public consumption, presumably so people can form some opinion on the game?

I 'm aware they're not done and the final product will look better on a PC when its all done, but as of right now,  I don't feel like its alltogether looking that much better than Origins and in some cases it looks worse.

You must have been that one guy at PAX... Looks worse?! Please go to a doctor and have him prescribe something to clear up the filter over your eyes! DA2 can't look worst than 1. (No offence Bioware, but it looked horrible. That being said, the game is still in many ways better than ME2 was due to the immersion of DAO and being able to have characters interact with each other etc.) Back on topic, You have no sense visually. The Quality, Style, Mood, textures, themes... It's better in every way... What way to ONLY YOU does the art not look as appealing? Please? The world and Bioware does not understand? Back up you statement. I'll wait... As an Artist/ Game Designer/ Gamer/ Person with eyes, I can't see you point of the aurguement.

Adam and Jaime are calling Myth Busted on your claims.
DA2>DAO art wise

[The_11thDoctor]

leonia42 wrote...

I'd rather have horses than cloaks, personally. If there was ever a game that mixed Dragon Age and Mount & Blade.. I may never stop playing it. But that's just me, I think mounts would add something to the combat and strategy whereas cloaks are just cosmetic and pretty in concept art.

Maker's Breath! If you think about the stories where you slay dragons and dawned armor, you have horses! Not having them is a crime, but if the world is the same as in DAO, Im not sure how they would add them unless you had the horse take a member slot and only use them in battle or to walk around in a town. If you used them to travel the world map, it would be epic, but Bioware knows when that will ever happen.

By the Stone Bioware! When are your programmers going to sodding get it together and add a beast worth havin? Ya got wolves, bears and Darkspawn, but no horses?! Ya got no Stone sense...

[Lyssistr]

Saibh wrote...

Honestly, I don't get why people care so much about horses. Especially for DAO--I mean, we didn't have Oblivion size open worlds. We didn't need them at all. Cloaks and bowstrings I do get, though.

mounts are fun on their own right

[Lyssistr]

Brockololly wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

It wasn't just making it "hot rod samurai", though. We did proceed with exactly what you suggested at first, but part of the problem with DAO was that it spent so long in development and thus its graphics were pretty behind the times in terms of newer releases. Happily that didn't have a big effect on its sales (or so we assume), but that situation was only going to get worse as time passed-- even for those of you that don't personally assign much value to graphics, you have to admit this is true. From our perspective it was either feel the pain now or feel it even more later when and if we made a third game.

Oh, I'm not opposed to flashier graphics at all, and surely Origins could have used  some more visual juice; its just that from what I've seen thus far of DA2, the graphics don't look any better than Origins and in some cases it all looks much worse. I'm just hoping its because you guys are still working on things obviously- I really want to see this new lighting system as I thought that was one of the big weaknesses of Origins visually.

Of course, the constant rush for flashier graphics just makes me wish BioWare would make a nice isometric top down Diablo 3 looking, BG style playing RPG in the DA universe, so instead of focusing on marginally better graphics you could focus on the more important stuff like content. My lord that would be awesome.

That's exactly what I'd like to see as well, a fixed top-down view and more focus on density. People have been saying for all these years that isometric is "dead" and there comes Blizzard making Diablo III in isometric perspective, while focusing on stuff that made the diablo franchise great. Why can't we get an isometric DA with all the stuff that made BG II great in the DA universe.

My hopes are in some indie studios that may do this using the Ogre3D engine, a BG-like game using the Ogre engine would be awesome, much like Torchlight is the best Diablo-like h&s.

[aaniadyen]

Lyssistr wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Honestly, I don't get why people care so much about horses. Especially for DAO--I mean, we didn't have Oblivion size open worlds. We didn't need them at all. Cloaks and bowstrings I do get, though.

mounts are fun on their own right

We wouldn't have needed to use them anywhere. The only places we would have would be the map-travel sequences. If they make mounts in future games, they're going to need to mke mount-specific content. Otherwise, there's no point.

[Lumikki]

Wonders why it's so hard to create physics system in graphics engine, even some free games have them. Like hair or cloth movement. If I remember correctly some mmorpgs like Age of Conan had hair movement, Granado Espada has even elastic body, City of Heroes has some rag doll effects, I think. Don't really remember much anymore, because I don't play anymore so much than I use to.

Maybe we get them in Mass Effect 3 as Dragon Age 2 is allmost ready.

Modifié par Lumikki, 29 octobre 2010 - 11:41 .

[Maria Caliban]

leonia42 wrote...

I'd rather have horses than cloaks, personally.

I want horses wearing cloaks.

Make it happen, BioWare.

[In Exile]

Brockololly wrote...

Eh- when Baldur's Gate 2 came out it was lauded for having amazing graphics at the time. What made BG2 so great was that it had/has great graphics and had tons of content. I think its about striking that balance between your fluffy graphics/voice acting/cinematics and actual content. I thought Origins hit that balance pretty damn well but I'm worried DA2 is creeping more towards focusing on the graphics/VO/cinematics at the expense of actual RPG content. But we'll see.

Origins had a lot of garbage filler content. There were large sections of the game that essentially added very little to the plot, since effectively what you had was: Ostagar + Gather Army + Denerim. The gather army party was used to add flavour and characterize the world, but certain areas like the extended Fade, wandering around Denerim and the Deep Roads did not add any substantive content. These were just dungeon crawls.

It's like saying New Vegas has a lot of content. In a sense, yes, it has about 1-2 quests per map area, which gives them something like 75 quests. But the majority are fetch quests. I suppose some like that, but I tend to find that sort of content pretty vacuous.

I think what BG II did that was an improvement over BG was to add more meaningful content in terms of quests.

But then again this is why I am heavily a fan on an "on-rails" linear plot because there is a lot more meat to the story versus pointless flavour that's irrelevant by the end game.

[Maconbar]

Maria Caliban wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I'd rather have horses than cloaks, personally.

I want horses wearing cloaks.

Make it happen, BioWare.

Only if sponsored by Old Spice.

[SXOSXO]

I love cloaks, but devs everywhere hate making them cause it's hard to animate them and make it look proper. They usually look at that and say "this time and effort is better spent elsewhere."

[Leonia]

Maconbar wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I'd rather have horses than cloaks, personally.

I want horses wearing cloaks.

Make it happen, BioWare.

Only if sponsored by Old Spice.

Only if Varric is wearing the Old Spice and riding the cloaked horse.

[Dazaster Dellus]

I would rather ride into battle on a Giraffe. Giraffe>Horse

[Fishy]

Just do a cloak DLC!





Imagine this guy without cloaks!

[Sylvius the Mad]

David Gaider wrote...

Had we not revamped the graphical system for DA2 (which we felt was very much needed)

You were wrong.

Not that cloaks are particular valuable to me, but DAO's graphics were wholly adequate.

[upsettingshorts]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Had we not revamped the graphical system for DA2 (which we felt was very much needed)

You were wrong.

Sylvius are you just tired of qualifying your opinions as such - which I would understand, or do you legitimately feel your views are representative of objective truth?

Full disclosure: I've enjoyed games with mono sound and 8-bit graphics.  I don't really have a dog in this hunt as I don't really care about cloaks, horses (unless fully realized as part of mounted warfare or free travel) or modestly improved graphics.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 29 octobre 2010 - 09:42 .