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Starting Races - Replacement


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#1
Song_of_Serran

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Ahoy once again.

  I am trying to edit the starting races of NWN into my own custom versions of them, and have run into some problems.

  The races I am trying to limit to are;

  Human
     ~Southlander
     ~Midlander
     ~Nordlander
 Vermhin
 Black Orc
 High Elf
 Dark Elf
 Dwarf

So far Human and it's three sub-races work fine and dandy.  No issues.  Dwarves work well, their subraces have been removed easily enough.  I have turned off Planetouched and Yaun-ti etc easily by changing the player race from 1 to 0.

My problem seems to stem from the multi-entries in the racialtype.2da and the racialsubtype.2da.  I replaced the Gensi subraces with human subraces and all worked well, when I changed the elf subraces however, I must have made some sort of error, because the .tlk changes I made to the standard elf race in the racialytype.2da do not show up.  It's as if the sub-race 2da and the normal race 2da compete for information giving.

Anyone have any insights into racial editing.  Also, does anyone know a way to turn a standard race into the lizardman race?  Is this possible?  I do not need the half-elf race so I could presumably replace it with the lizardfolk.

*edit*   P.S.  does the racial abbrev. matter in racial appearances?  All my custom elves are using hairless dwarf models  >_>

Also, I can remove subrace selections from a race, but I cannot seem to disable the subrace menu from said race.  Example elves.  You choose elf, it takes me to Sub-race selection... but the menu is blank because I removed them... is there anyway to just disable subrace selection all together?


~Serran

Modifié par Song_of_Serran, 29 octobre 2010 - 04:22 .


#2
_Knightmare_

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I know its not a true answer for you, but this tool may help you out: http://nwvault.ign.c...r.Detail&id=116

Perhaps either an example of its output or the tutorial there may give you some direction.

#3
BigfootNZ

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Song_of_Serran wrote...

*edit*   P.S.  does the racial abbrev. matter in racial appearances?  All my custom elves are using hairless dwarf models  >_>

Also, I can remove subrace selections from a race, but I cannot seem to disable the subrace menu from said race.  Example elves.  You choose elf, it takes me to Sub-race selection... but the menu is blank because I removed them... is there anyway to just disable subrace selection all together?


~Serran


Yes the Racial abbreviation matters from what i remeber try to make sure they remain unique to each other.

Also the races listed in the Racialtype 2da are more or less all subrace selections to begin with, the RacialSubtype 2da is the primary one referenced for the most part.

eg. take a look at how a single non subraced race like Humans are done, the racialtype 2da references row 17 in racialsubtypes as its defualt subrace and in this row there is a references back to the racialtype row for humans on line 6 as its parent race. If the game finds a setup like this and there are no other subraces referencing back to it, it treats it as a single non subraced race... ive done this myself successfully with adding races like Shad, Nethri and Half-Giants into the game and they all work fine.

For your Drow only setup youd have to change the default Elf row (which are the moon elfs) in the Racialtypes 2da (line 1) so that its defualt subrace entry was 3 and its racial abbreviation was 'DO' (might have to also change the races ability mods but I dont believe the abiliy mods or racial feat entries in Racetypes 2da are used by the game and only the ones found in the Subraces 2da columns of the same names are used).

Then in the Racialsubtype 2da on line 3 which is for the drow youd have to have to make sure its base race entry was 1. Then set all the other elves subraces base race entries to some other number not assigned to any other race or **** and set them as non player races.

Youd also have to in the Racialtype 2da change the tlk entry numbers to match the Drow ones and that should all work fine with Drow showing up as a single non subraced race.

Also just a note, make sure that you have a copy of the racialtype and racialsubtype 2das in your toolsets overide folder since even if stuck in a hak and assigned to a mod the toolset seems to require or only seems to read custom races correctly from the overide... haks will work fine ingame, just not in the toolset, which is something i was finding issues with recently since I found with a hak I could choose the race in the toolset from the properties rollout but not from the Basics tab, and any changes I did didnt seem to take with the races reseting to nothing until I stuck a copy of my altered race 2das into the toolsets override folder... it also happens with some of the other 2das like the skills 2da, the toolset seems to work buggy or not at all with some 2das only present in a hak, but fine with just the haks when ingame.

Hope that helps. Its a little confusing, especially with some columns in either 2das being redundant or over written by the same column with the same name in the other and some being completely unused.

As for the odd appearance... make sure the Drow rows AppearanceIndex entry in teh RacialSubTypes.2da is 567.

As to making half-elves as lizardmen... it would be tricky since they dont have the same model setup as the player races, you could possibly get them to work as is by making a new race that references their appearnce.2da line in its AppearanceIndex column, but that would either crash or simply not work and if it did they'd have no ability to properly change appearance based on what they would wear, and be missing large ammounts of animations. you'd also have to make a skin, hair and eye color 2da for them to reference.

Modifié par BigfootNZ, 03 novembre 2010 - 04:57 .


#4
Song_of_Serran

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Very much helpful.



I will try your suggestions once I am back from work once more.



It is quite confusing trying to decrypt the backwards refrancing without a cypher :P

#5
BigfootNZ

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Song_of_Serran wrote...

Very much helpful.

I will try your suggestions once I am back from work once more.

It is quite confusing trying to decrypt the backwards refrancing without a cypher :P


Yeah its kinda tricky, RacialTypes.2da references RacialSubTypes.2da and vice versa but RacialSubTypes from what i can see holds most of the info (i could be wrong)... im not even sure the TLK numbers in RacialTypes.2da are used for the most part... although they would be for races made up of subraces, ie you look at the Elf race in RacialTypes.2da the names and description tlk entries are for elves in general, while within the RacialSubTypes.2da there for each of the elf sub races.

For the humans however the names and Description  tlk numbers are indentical between RacialType and RacialSubType.2da ... im not sure which set of tlk numbers for humans in the 2das in that case are used, wouldnt be to hard to find out with some minor number changing in one or the other 2das and see which one changes it in game. Given that in the Toolset when picking a NPC's race its actually giving you a list of all the Subraces id say its more likely the RacialSubTypes.2da thats being used more prominently.

I just realised you have high-elf listed as one elf race you want to keep (I read it as half-elf opps)... did you want it to be a seperate race of elves or a subrace along with the Drow? Since all youd have to do then is just set teh PlayerRace number to 0 in racialsubtypes.2da for the wild, moon, and wood elves, and leave the RacialTypes.2da elf row intact, apart from setting the row number for the DefaultSubRace entry to either the High-Elf or Drow subraces row number in the subrace 2da since it would be referencing the now removed Moon Elf row on row 4, which would cause issues obviously... in fact that may have been your initial problem with the Elf races coming up completely blank in the first place (ie it was referencing a removed subrace, but was classed as a set of subraces since it was being reference by a number of subraces).

Modifié par BigfootNZ, 03 novembre 2010 - 10:56 .


#6
Song_of_Serran

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Problem seems to be some sort of double referancing going on with the elves and their sub-races.

I have two types of elves planned, and instead of making Elf, then adding two 'subraces' I instead am trying to make them their own races all together. Worst case scenario I can just make Elf then two subraces, but I would rather have all six races accessed directly through the normal race list and avoid sub-race use all together other than Humans. I made three 'sub-races' of humans to represent different nationalities of the human population in the setting. The Human sub-races and Human itself all work fine. I copied the Human line in the racialsubtype.2da and replaced the planetouched Gensai with exact copies of the standard Human line. Then just TLK changed their names and edited some ability modifiers and ta-da done! BUT when I tried the same with the elves all went to hell in a hand basket.

I tried making a direct copy of the 'Elf' line in the main race section and erasing Gnome all-together with a copy of the Elf race. Then TLK edited the copy of elf to 'Dark Elf'. When I tested it, both Elf and what should be Dark Elf are 'Badstreff' with no descriptions, and open the 'subrace' after selection letting me pick the standard elf sub-races. Then I figured it was a subrace issue and commented out the subraces, -except- Moon Elf because that seemed to be the standard elf race. It's default for elves after all. This worked to an extent. The other sub races were gone, but now both Badstreff main races could be selected, and then it would advance me to the sub-race selection showing only the Moon Elf subrace. This annoyed me since I want it to just click 'elf' and move on. No sub race choosing at all darn it!

Then I went back through and tried everything in reverse and it failed. At which point I posted here for insight. I am about to try your suggestions now... lets see what can be seen.


***Results***


Still no luck, however further investigation has me nearly convinced that there is some kind of hard coding or burried referances somewhere specific to elves.  I can accomplish everything I am trying on every other race from Human to Halflings, only elves give me issue.

Therefore I will simply do what is easiest and still functional... leave Elf a race and make it's sub-races  High Elf and Dark Elf.

Unless someone else knows the answer this is what I will have to do.

Modifié par Song_of_Serran, 04 novembre 2010 - 07:15 .