315 réponses à ce sujet

[Auraad]

Comparing the GFX of the 90s with those of today is unfair. Ofcourse the graphics itself looks more stunning today and the whole 3D technique give it that little extra to stand right in the middle of the action - this was impossible some 15 years back.

However, the cool thing of BG was the "red story line" that always was there but not quite graspable - you knew that you were something special, but not exaclty why. And the mysteries around your background revealed very slowly - just great! In DA:O ... you're "just somebody" with a standard background (there are zillions of human nobles, of dwarfen commoners, mages etc.)

So, DA:O does not feel so special compared to the BG series ... at least for me. The storywriting in both games, however, is great to no extent...

Also, in the BG series you did not know (for a long time) who you're actually up against ... there was the iron throne, irenicus, sarevok, ... and you slowly had to work "your way up". In DA:O you have, well, the blight, demons ... some politics (granted, with some surprises)... ok - it's "really hard" to figure out who your badies are.

[Tripedius]

Did anyone notice the funny pointer to the 'you must gather your party' BGII thing in DOA?



I left an area and it said 'You gather your party and venture forth'.

[SJR200]

BG2, IWD2... My two most favorite games ever. DAO is now getting close to being up there with those two.



I don't think I can honestly say which one is THE favorite though. I loved those two games for all the usual reasons why people love them.



I am now beginning to love DAO for a lot of the reasons people have already given... storyline, character involvment, combat, camera angles.



Another thing I am also very impressed with are the 'dungeons' (Sacred Urn + Werewolf for example)... the look and feel when you walk into some of these places is just f'n awesome. Great layout, artwork and graphic design. With the camera angle set right, it feels like you are actually right there, walking through the halls and vast rooms, anticipating what is around the next corner or setting up for whatever it is that you know is waiting for you on the other side of the door you are about to open.



I think it's this along with the great combat system that is really giving me that old Pen + Paper D+D Feel, I love it.

[Ghandorian]

@ Auraad: In DAO I am really beginning to see that the only BAD side is the Blight. Everyone else, including me, is shades of grey. It makes for a much deeper RP experience for me personally because nothing is clear cut. Except that "Swooping is Bad" of course. That we can all agree with

[Tripedius]

And btw if DOA2 relates to DOA like BG1 related to BG2, DOA2 will be the game that finally makes everyone forget about buttkicking for goodness.

[Nisstyre_56]

Interesting responses. How would you guys compare this story and plot to Planescape: Torment if any of you have played it?

[Pan od ciasteczek]

Planescape: Torment had the best story ever.

I love DA:O It makes me believe that crpg is not dead.

[miltos33]

I don't think that you can compare this game to Baldur's Gate II. I know that DAO is supposed to be its spiritual successor but this is only hype and I haven't fallen for it. I think it is more appropriate to compare this game to NWN and NWN2 and in my opinion it compares somewhat favourably to those two.

[FlintlockJazz]

Tripedius wrote...

And btw if DOA2 relates to DOA like BG1 related to BG2, DOA2 will be the game that finally makes everyone forget about buttkicking for goodness.

One can never forget buttkicking for goodness.  I am shocked by just the thought, though Boo thinks that you're just ducky.

[Skemte]

Baldur's Gate 2 was a fun game, like DAO though it has its flaws.. Namely some of the imbalanced or broken classes that were never fixed with official patches.. Only other real gripe I had with the game was the insta death traps and such.. You open a door, a globe hits you.. You die, game over.

[Eidolonn]

IF DA:O is not the number one CRPG of all time, it's definitely in the top 5.



BG 1 and 2/IWD 1 and 2 (I consider these essentially the same) are high up on the list.

Planescape: Torment is in the same vein as BG, but deserves to be on its own.

NWN is also high up on the list for the toolset which allowed for so much more after the game.

The original Gold Box games are also high up on the list.



Strangely enough, DA:O is the first one for me that has stepped outside of D&D and even the Forgotten Realms for the most part.



There have been other good CRPG's, but the above have typically set the bar.

[Uriah Jeep]

maikanix wrote...

Plus, Viconia > Morrigan. No question.

Never got how everyone was into Viconia, and also how everyone loathed Aerie.  Aerie had it all over Viconia.  As a mage/cleric she was VASTLY more powerful as a character, and she was kind and sweet. 

Ok, yeah, she was a lil self conscious about her apperance, but I guess having parts of your body cut off would do that to you.

She wasnt hampered with Viconia's awful accent ( i still cringe thinking of "yes, ibil?"), and she wasnt....yanno...evil.  Dating evil women rarely works out well.  


As for the topic, I liked BG2's storyline a bit more, the story from where you start to where you end was amazing. 

Whether you think DA:O is better or not, BG2 was the more important one because it shaped and defined (alonh with Torment) what a good RPG should be.  But I do love this game, especially with how challenging many of the encounters are.

[Cursedblood]

Very similar games I feel, the only difference is the wide gap in time (and technology) to produce them.



The raw mechanics are similar, the dialog trees often have similar styles to them, even some of the characters and stories/quests seem vaguely familiar. The system is decent, it's too bad their system didn't become D&D 4th Edition (which was an abominable mess), but I digress. Still, it turns out it was a good thing BioWare wasn't chained to D&D this time around.



Baldur's Gate was better, because it was all newer and fresher at the time it was made. It was a bolder, more important release for RPG gaming. Dragon Age is good, but is just "one of many", nothing Earth-shattering about it, very entertaining though.



It's a pretty disposable game, I'll finish it, probably replay it one more time after that, and then it will gather dust, and I'll go back to playing other games. It's good cotton candy, a popcorn RPG, not much investment required other than time and the mashing of buttons. Fun, but not epic, unlike BG and BG II which were genuinely eye-opening and somewhat revolutionary.

[Direbrute]

I'd say it's close, really damn close.



BG2 had more in-depth gameplay, more questing, and I love the amount of visual detail that can come from those old 2D games. The only modern 3D games to approach that level of detail (for me) was Oblivion - you can actually steal a fork FFS! BG2 also felt more epic. Just a monstrous world, tons of quests and dialogue, lore, reading, spells, enemies, character... just more of everything.



That being said I do appreciate DA:O's slightly more simplistic feel. It feels much less D&Dish, which is a plus for me. Plus DA:O just packs more of a punch as far as effects, sounds, axes swinging, fireballs blasting, earthquakes rumbling etc., but that's really just a product of the times.



I'll have to finish Dragon Age to really be able to settle on which is better.



Keep in mind that a reiteration of BG2 in today's market would have been much less profitable. Yes, it would delight the pants off some people, but for the most part I don't know if it would make enough money to justify its production. Sad but true.

[Spawn305]

Baldur's Gate II = BEST RPG EVER. Due to 1 thing, Multi player, I didn’t have to play the game by myself.



DA:O= Great game. Replay value is low due to no multi player and having to do everything by myself and the crap AI.

[BuanaGrande]

I would say that not only the side quests in DA:O are inferior but also the main quest(s). I was never a hardcore BGII fan, played it 2 times, vanilla and with the Add-On but I still remember Irenicus Dungeon very fondly. There was so much diversity in it, you had the golems, dryads, the windy plane, the rooms of Irenicus girl, the demon at the beginning, the slob in the middle, the dwarves, the thieves ambush at the end etc. You never knew what would await you in the next room.

Compare this to the Sacred Ashes quest. This was just a stupid and mindless grind. "Oh, there is a door/cave, what might lurk behind it? - Ah, some cultist, again, never saw it coming..." At the end I got so bored by all those cultists, I just cloaked Zevran to scout ahead, then I stummbled upon the master cultist, my Party got teleported there and I didn't shed one tear for the 5 same, boring mobs and the nonexistant or crappy loot I missed (Sevran got me something for a Blood-Mage out of a dragon egg and I doubt there would have been anything worthwile if I killed those mobs).

After that, however, it got quite entertaining. That Indiana Jones thing they got going and the Doppelganger fight, if hardly very innovative were fun, all that came before, not.

This was the worst but the same is true to some extent for all the other Main Quests, to many of the same enemies, in the same composition, not enough diversion in between. Especially no little quests involving other people/entities. They appear, like Goodwin in the Mage Tower or Bruck? in the Deep roads, but you only get a little cutscene out of them and are forgotten almost immediately. I didn't even care so much as to read the "Quest completed" entry when I encountered Buck?. Afterwards as I saw a Quest marker on the map back in Orzmarr and went there: Ah, he was lost in the dungeon and I was supposed to look for him, Yeah, great, so exciting. He bought my excessive loot, for that his money was good enough.

[seb__]

It's just Baldurs Gate II in "more awesome"-mode

[bzombo]

the bg series is my favorite of all time of any kind of game. 10 of 10. da is 9.5 of 10. bioware did something with da that i thought would never happen again. they made an epic game with great storytelling that i can't get enough of. nowadays, we only see mmos or hack n slash. they're both fun, but the epic single player category just died. now, at least for the time being, it's back.

[Wissenschaft]

I'm going against the crowd but while I love BG series it seems so dated to me. I never quite like the combat system. Warriors are boring, rogues just seem more fun to play in DA, while mages w/ mana is just so much better. Plus, the DA characters seem so much more developed and seem to have far FAR more banter than in BG. And honestly, I enjoy the Ferlendan much more than Baldurs gate or Amn.



However, I do agree that DA does play like an MMO. Not a bad thing in my mind though.



As for the many quest in BG2. Eh, they seemed more a distraction and waste of time. I prefer the focus on the main story in DA. The world is so well developed, I'm certianly getting the table top RPG.

[Duck and Cover]

Upon further thought, I don't think you can really compare the games. They are just too different (despite what press releases say).



DA is more like NWN and Kotor than Baldur's Gate. There is very little in common with baldur's gate. It's like comparing apples and oranges.



They both have their strengths and weakenesses.



I forsee myself playing Bg 1 and 2 and this game for many years to come.

[Kakimori]

It doesn't compare. Baldur's Gate II is by far the superior game.

[Kaerwek]

What I like better in BG compared to DA:O is the class diversity which was larger in BG. I find one of the problems in DA:O that mages are overpowering, because they can heal as well as play the normal mage role. I wish DA:O had separated the two roles as in the BG series. The difference between Cleric and Wizard was good to have.

Then again, the limit of 4 controllable characters probably had an impact.

[lavve]

Skyplatoon wrote...

Here's a question. I have played through about a third of BG2 (my computer crashed and i lost everything). I love DA so when I finish it, im gonna go back to Baldur’s Gate 2. I have never played BG1 at all but got the basic gist of the story through BG2. Playing through the entire saga via a mod sounds fun but it seems like a lot of time for part of the story I already know. Shold I just hit BG2-TOB or the entire saga? Any comments would be appreciated.

I would recommend the entire saga. Sure you may know the big plot surprise already, but  there's nothing quite like nurturing your wimpy lvl1 character from the first game and see him/her ascend to god-like powers in TOB.
Seeing as how you can use EasyTutu to play BG1 thru the BG2 Engine, it has more or less the same feel to it as well. I would also recommend the NPC-project mods for both games. Adds a lot of character depth for your followers.

As for DA:O vs BG series?
Hard to compare them.
But if a group of people created the same amount of well-written content as there was in BG2 without losing the complexity of moral decisions and the dark fantasy feel of DA:O we would have the best game ever. 
And they should probably use the DA:O graphics engine as well.

[CraigCWB]

"People don't realize that it was many times easier to create tons of content on a 2.5D game like Baldur's Gate 2. To create that much content on DAO would have taken over a year or more longer."



Madlax27, I don't know why you would say so. Nobody else seems to have trouble making reams of content. Dragon Age could be 100x the size it is now and still not have as much content in terms of characters, dialog and 3D landscape as Lord of the Rings Online.



I think that's an especially tough sell since Bioware (and others) have been going on the record since about 2000 saying that they wanted to make shorter games because they thought shorter games were more accessible. And, they did start making shorter games about then. It was a conscious decision, not a technological or manpower limitation.

[conan.cimmerian99]

While Dragon age origins is a great game, I would still say BG series are much much better games than Dragon age origins, because:



In terms of game length, the amount of time you need to spend to finish DO:A is about the same as BG2 or BG1. However, the BG games just feels much deeper and richer, I think it is because the world in BG games feels more lively due to the big city, more towns and more freedom to explore these locations, and also has more freedom to interact with NPCs, in DO:A, the city, town and villiages are too small while some of the dungeons are too big, and just drags for too long and adds tiresome and unnecessary gameplay hours in contrast to BG games, the size of the dungeons are just right to keep you intriqued and challenged.



In short, when you play BG it gives you the feeling that you are actually in an epic fantasy movie and become a part of the forgotten realm. However when I play Dragon age origins, I definitely think this is a great game, but I feel like I am just reading a really good book.